in support of a "Blue Bag Movement"

[dentonfabrics]

With a few million animals crapping like there's no tomorrow in the very woods which we walk, I dont consider it to be much of an issue. What, their poop doesn't stink??

The only place I think might be an exception to this is at popular but "illegal" campsites. For instance, dont even think about walking in the woods at the end of Elbow Pond Road unless you've had a tetanus shot recently.

 

[Quietman]

Humans may find feces unpleasant, but not all animals do. Some will even roll in it.

Doug

I have traveled with caninie companions (I don't have a dog) that have done worse than roll in it. Got into the habit of finding a larger flat rock to place over the site to avoid this from happening.

 

[Craig]

With a few million animals crapping like there's no tomorrow in the very woods which we walk, I dont consider it to be much of an issue. What, their poop doesn't stink??

I don't know. I'm pretty easy going and not too many things will ruin my wilderness experience.
But when I come across a big ol pile of steaming crap topped off by a half roll of TP I'm looking to butt plug the goat that did that.
Maybe its just me.

 

[Neil]

Humans may find feces unpleasant, but not all ... Some will even roll in it.

Doug

Wrong thread DP.

 

[Chip]

With a few million animals crapping like there's no tomorrow in the very woods which we walk, I dont consider it to be much of an issue. What, their poop doesn't stink??

Although I couldn't quickly locate a relevant link, my Nurse has assured me human and pet fecal contaminants are much more dangerous to humans than wild animal's.

Plus, aesthetically, deer, bear and coyote crap are supposed to be there. Human and dog are not.

Bag it or get off trail, kick open a hole and bury it. Nobody wants to be exposed to that...except what's his name, who is just sick and I would probably kill if he surprised me, my wife or boys.

 

[Tim Seaver]

Reinforced Honey Bucket

Now all we need are Blue Bags that fit the inside of helmets, and we'll be good to go.

So to speak.

 

[roadtripper]

Anybody know how long it takes for those pocket kleenex to dissolve if they are buried 3-6inches deep in the woods? I used to use those but then got thinking that they are pretty tough, and so I began wondering that it might take much, much longer than regular TP.

 

[DougPaul]

Anybody know how long it takes for those pocket kleenex to dissolve if they are buried 3-6inches deep in the woods? I used to use those but then got thinking that they are pretty tough, and so I began wondering that it might take much, much longer than regular TP.

TP is designed to disintegrate when wet for any length of time so it doesn't clog sewers and septic tanks. Tissues are not--in fact, sewers can be clogged by tissues.

I'd stick to TP (or leaves or snow) in the woods.

Doug

 

[erugs]

We've used bags on Whitney, Rainier, Grand Teton and I wondered why we weren't issued any on our recent trip to Mt. Hood. (Perhaps because the time we would spend there was shorter?) I've heard that people kayaking on the Maine Island Trail are asked to carry out, and that makes sense, I think. They're not the dreaded thing one might think, when you consider that you are leaving the trail a better place.

The thing that bugs me, really, is seeing wads of TP off trail, someplace out of the way, like in back of a boulder or fallen tree. Why do others pick the same private spot that I've discovered. There is no excuse for leaving TP behind (pun intended) and not packing it out, in my opinion.

 

[Chip]

There is no excuse for leaving TP behind (pun intended) and not packing it out, in my opinion.

Essentially just as easy to pack out the whole deal at that point, no ?

 

[dentonfabrics]

Although I couldn't quickly locate a relevant link, my Nurse has assured me human and pet fecal contaminants are much more dangerous to humans than wild animal's.

Plus, aesthetically, deer, bear and coyote crap are supposed to be there. Human and dog are not.

Bag it or get off trail, kick open a hole and bury it. Nobody wants to be exposed to that...except what's his name, who is just sick and I would probably kill if he surprised me, my wife or boys.

I wasnt talking about crapping on the trail - that's something alltogether different. I've never happened upon that, thank goodness.

I'm sure your nurse is right, but I wonder what the science is behind that? I'd think that an average adult human carries less disease than an average adult animal. Could it be the food we eat? The medicines we take? If its true, that's a scarey thought.

 

[Little Rickie]

Plus, aesthetically, deer, bear and coyote crap are supposed to be there. Human and dog are not. .

I politely beg to differ. We are suppose to be there.

 

[erugs]

Chip - As simple as packing out the whole deal? No, I don't think so. A wad of TP takes up less space, and if the stuff decomposes quickly here, then that's the better answer than putting it in plastic. Where there is no cover -- scree slopes like on the hight of St. Helens, or snow -- almost anywhere in the winter, but especially above tree line, then I'd vote for packing it out.

 

[erugs]

Doug - with my recent experience dealing with Lyme disease, I've changed my mind about using leaves. How about marine-grade TP. Does that degrade faster?

 

[MichaelJ]

There is no excuse for leaving TP behind (pun intended) and not packing it out, in my opinion.

Just want to say that depending on the poop in question, it could be quite nasty (think biohazard) to pack out the TP.

Yeah, that sounds like a Wu comment, but I'm serious.

 

[Chip]

, and if the stuff decomposes quickly here, then that's the better answer than putting it in plastic.

just to be clear, I don't mean to leave the loaded plastic bags behind, they get packed out. (I used load and behind in that sentence !) Rainier indicates 12,000 summit attempts per year and they require blue bags. Mt Washington indicates 50,000 attempts per. Even if 3/4 of those never need to go, or are able to at the facilities, that's still 12,500 potential cr@ps trail side. Seems to me it wouldn't hurt to encourage bagging on the heavy use trails.

 

[DougPaul]

Doug - with my recent experience dealing with Lyme disease, I've changed my mind about using leaves. How about marine-grade TP. Does that degrade faster?

Good point. (Treat leaves with permethrin before using? ) I presume that snow is still safe...


The issue with marine grade TP is that is has to go through the discharge pump on the head. (To empty the bowl, one uses a pump to grind up the waste into small particles and discharge it out into the sea.) The pumps tend to be prone to packing up (clogging)... So the marine grade TP would have to disintegrate rapidly and easily.

There are regulations that require the use of sewage holding tanks on inshore waters. Presumably the requirements for the TP are similar to those for use in with a septic system or an RV.

From http://www.tek-tanks.com/sanitation/maintenance.html

Marine toilet paper is designed to virtually dissolve in your hand. (The cheapest "no-name" single-ply paper at the grocery store is the same thing as "marine" toilet paper, and it's a whole lot cheaper!)

So I guess, just use cheap single-ply. (Gee--guess I was doing the "right" thing without knowing it! )

Doug

 

[erugs]

Chip - it depends. Yes, if you through it in the trash, not so much if you flush the TP and toss the baggie, especially if you've been careful to wrap the TP so the dirty stuff is in the center. There will always be leakage, I suppose, but when considering the alternative, it's not so bad?

 

[DougPaul]

place out of the way, like in back of a boulder or fallen tree. Why do others pick the same private spot that I've discovered. There is no excuse for leaving TP behind (pun intended) and not packing it out, in my opinion.

I've seen plenty visible from the trail...

It becomes hazardous waste for someone else to pick up and carry out. (One's own feces are presumably less dangerous to oneself than other people's.)

Doug

 

[Chip]

I'm sure your nurse is right, but I wonder what the science is behind that? I'd think that an average adult human carries less disease than an average adult animal. Could it be the food we eat? The medicines we take? If its true, that's a scarey thought.

Maybe one of the scientists can elaborate. As an example though, composted cow manure is used in gardens. I know composting human waste for gardens is not recommended.