Katahdin advice needed

[DougPaul]

You have several versions of a loop from Roaring Brook, including or skipping Chimney Pond.

We went up Abol Slide, tagged Baxter, did the Knife Edge, and returned via the same route in winter. In summer you should be able to do the same with a side trip to Hamlin. You can probably substitute Hunt Tr for Abol Slide in either direction.

There are viable and nice loop routes over both peaks and the KE from either side.

Doug

 

[askus3]

I have never done this but I was looking at a map and I got this crazy idea for Deanmacg. He wants to climb the Knife's Edge, see Chimney Pond, and climb all three 4,000 footers in two days. So here is the idea:

First of all this is a backpack. Second it includes a car shuttle or a hitch at the end from Marrston Trailhead (Slide Dam back to Roaring Brook), third it requires a reservation at Davis Pond Lean-to and lastly bushwacking is involved! Even if Dean doesn't do this, I am curious if I am out of my gourd to think up such a fantasy!

Day 1: From Roaring Brook, go to Chimney Pond, climb the Dudley to Pamola, next the Knife's Edge. From Baxter Peak over to Hamlin Peak and then follow the NW Basin Trail to Davis Pond. WHEWWWW!!!!

Day 2: Continue another mile or so to where the NW Basin Trail crosses the stream coming in from the Klondike. Bushwack west up Fort and take the herd path over to North Brother and then either down the Marrston Trail to Slide Dam (especially if you meet someone who would give you a ride to Roaring Brook) or if you have the energy and the inclination hike over South Brother (including spur) and Coe and then down (or even beyond to climb over O-J-I) and then down to Foster Field! AM I CRAZY to even suggest it?

Also, has anyone ever approached Fort from NW Basin? What is that bushwack like? Anyone want to satisfy my curiosity?

 

[peakbagger]

This a "dangerous" thread as this would be an excessive hike for anyone except for a someone in great condition. A "normal" hiker could get in a lot of trouble. But what the heck.

A couple of caveats,

You have to plan to get to Chimney pond and leave the pond by 11 am to start back to the other side of the mountain . Dependent upon the ranger, this cut off time is enforced.

Book time does not apply on Dudley and the Knife Edge, adjust your itinerary accordingly. Dudley is a great hike but there is a lot of hands required minor bouldering.

The summit of Baxter attracts bad weather in the afternoon due to its geography. What can start out as clouds over the summit when looking over from Pamola can turn into rain and thunder half way over. Frequently the weather "sneaks up" from the west and it can look perfect at Chimney Pond with black clouds on the west side.

Treat the springs above treeline with suspicion, some of them dry up or are pretty slimy.

Its worth the loop to pick up Coe on your North Brother hike. The hike down the Coe slabs is a nice way to end the day. Alternatively find an old map of Baxter and take the real Marston Slide trail back down. It was one of the classic slide routes, before it was relocated to avoid the slide.

 

[deanmacg]

A couple of questions. What's the deal with driving to the east side and sleeping in the car? I understand it's first come first served but what else is involved? If hiking from the west, we've got to be at Chimmney Pond before 11am or we can't hike back? Most importantly - is firewood available in the park?

I tried to switch site to the east but no-go. Even Chimmney Pond is maxed out.

 

[Mike P.]

I understood, I skipped the part of driving over to Roaring Brook in the AM.

IMO I'd start & end over at Roaring Brook TR if the goal is KE & the two big peaks on the Katahdin Massiff. If wanting to do N. Brother do so on another day or from the Marston Trailhead unless you are prolific bushwhackers & get to the required shelters as the park frowns on bivy camping

The Klondike is not a playground & the descent or ascent on Hamlin Ridge IMO should not be skipped.

 

[grog]

If your hiking back to Katadyn stream from chimney pound the rangers won't stop you past the cut off time, besides you're going up Hamlin so they won't even see you.

When you go over Hamlin peak and return to KS you don't have to go to Baxter peak, take the cut off trail, not only to save time and elevation but you get some different views. Walking on the table land is real easy, but any way you do Hamlin or Baxter is going to be tough, but really nice.

No idea where people are getting 8,000 feet vertical gain. I'm guessing 5,600 at the most.

I like hiking on road to Abol, Baxter peak, KE, Dudley, up Hamlin, to cut-off, down Hunt to campsite, that is some mighty fine hiking.

Driving to roaring brook in morning is slow and bumpy.

grog

 

[deanmacg]

If your hiking back to Katadyn stream from chimney pound the rangers won't stop you past the cut off time, besides you're going up Hamlin so they won't even see you.

When you go over Hamlin peak and return to KS you don't have to go to Baxter peak, take the cut off trail, not only to save time and elevation but you get some different views. Walking on the table land is real easy, but any way you do Hamlin or Baxter is going to be tough, but really nice.

No idea where people are getting 8,000 feet vertical gain. I'm guessing 5,600 at the most.

I like hiking on road to Abol, Baxter peak, KE, Dudley, up Hamlin, to cut-off, down Hunt to campsite, that is some mighty fine hiking.

Driving to roaring brook in morning is slow and bumpy.

grog

This sounds promising indeed.

 

[weatherman]

Do let us know how it goes! Sure to be some good stories. Enjoy- that area is magical.

Weatherman

 

[grog]

The Klondike is not a playground & the descent or ascent on Hamlin Ridge IMO should not be skipped.

Hamlin Ridge Trail is almost as nice as the Knife Edge.

The Klondike is so mysterious

grog.

 

[askus3]

OK. I made a wild guess off the top of my head and since Grog questioned the elevation gain and asked where people were getting this figure, I researched my notes. But first of all I will take the blame: I am the only one (not people) that mentioned 8,000 feet elevation gain in this thread.

On 9/3/02 using a Suunto Altimax altimeter, I went up the Abol Trail from Abol CG to Thoreau Falls. Then took the Hunt Trail the rest of the way to Baxter Peak of Katahdin. My return was via the Hunt (AT) Trail all the way down to Katahdin Stream. We had a short car shuttle (no road walk affecting the altimeter). The weather deteriorated as we progressed. We started with cloudying skies. Started raining as we climbed the slide. It was in the mid 40's and steady cold, bone-chilling rain at the summit. This change in the weather might have some impact on the altimeter. The total elevation gain for the hike was 4,070 feet. I did not adjust the altimeter at any time on the hike. I set the altimeter at 1270 at Abol CG. My book elevation for Katahdin was 5271 but my alltimeter read 5180. My book elevation for Katahdin Stream CG where we ended was 1060, but my altimeter read 1160. So it is possible that the ascent to Katahdin could be about 4300 feet and as much as 4500 if you climb from Katahdin Stream. Also, we do know that Chimney Pond is 2910' and Hamlin Peak is 4756'. So with a few humps that could easily be another 2,000 feet. Add to that the little ups of Chimney Peak & Pamola going east on the Knife's Edge, and I think a much more accurate estimate would be 7,000 feet. Grog's 5,600 foot estimate I would guess to be way under as mine was over.

As for Mike P.: I was just throwing out another crazy alternative to consider to get all three peaks and Knife's Edge in on two days, but even that two day backpack route never took you into the Klondike (I never considered it a playground, but I do consider that area mysterious like Grog said), just to an outflow stream crossing on the NW Basin Trail a mile or so away.

Lastly, 7,000 feet on one day and my records for the Coe-South Brother-North Brother loop on the second day (I did that hike counter-clockwise) and I did not go to Fort shows an elevation gain on my altimeter of 4,170 feet. Just remember if the weather is in your favor not to become totally wasted from your first day's hike (katahdin) that you can't do North Brother. If you hear that there is a good forecast for both days, seriously consider doing North Brother on the first day. Take heed in what Peakbagger says, some of the ideas expressed here sound outright "dangerous".

 

[deanmacg]

We`ll probably do N. brother the first day. Again, the weather will dictate.

 

[peakbagger]

I beg to differ on the cutoff times. It was explained to me a few years back by a full time ranger, that it is a park policy, that can and will be waived by staff on a case by case basis. It is not in any published rules that I can find on a quick web search. Therefore the statement that it does not apply to this situation is most likely incorrect. Granted the odds are highly favorable that you can talk your way around it, but to plan on it is not particularly a good idea as it only takes one ranger that is in a bad mood to ruin you day.

If you want to use this option, discuss the hike in advance with the ranger at Katahdin Stream and get his approval, then if you are questioned at Chimney Pond, you can refer back to the ranger at KS.

Sorry to be a stickler, but BSP is unlike any other facility in the east and it has a undeserved bad reputation with some folks, as being run by control freaks. The folks who complain the most, are usually the ones who dont follow the rules.

 

[deanmacg]

I beg to differ on the cutoff times. It was explained to me a few years back by a full time ranger, that it is a park policy, that can and will be waived by staff on a case by case basis. It is not in any published rules that I can find on a quick web search. Therefore the statement that it does not apply to this situation is most likely incorrect. Granted the odds are highly favorable that you can talk your way around it, but to plan on it is not particularly a good idea as it only takes one ranger that is in a bad mood to ruin you day.

If you want to use this option, discuss the hike in advance with the ranger at Katahdin Stream and get his approval, then if you are questioned at Chimney Pond, you can refer back to the ranger at KS.

Sorry to be a stickler, but BSP is unlike any other facility in the east and it has a undeserved bad reputation with some folks, as being run by control freaks. The folks who complain the most, are usually the ones who dont follow the rules.

Thanks - I certainly want to play by the rules and that includes dotting every i and crossing every t. I`m not looking to do something dangerous and over the top but the route from the west is 16.5 miles and at 1 mph that is 16.5 hrs. I think we can improve on that - weather permitting. Am I nuts or is this doable? I`m not scared of a long day for an awesome finish of the 115. (doing NB the day prior).

 

[grog]

There's several places you can evaluate your progress. After the Abol Trail on top of Baxter if it doesn't look good you can just cut over to Hamlin and back across to the cut-off and down the Hunt Trail, a great loop hike there. Or you can go directly down the Hunt Trail and you would have hiked two great trails, I like the west side better than the east.

If it looks good you can cross the knife edge and make another evaluation on top of Chimney peak (going to Pamola peak is about 30 minutes round trip), you can always turn around there and you get to do KE in both directions and make it a better hike ( going down is the best way ).

If you continue and make it to Chimney Pond (water here, and probably no beavers up stream) then your choice would be to ascend Saddle trail to cut-off, if you're tired, or continue up to Hamlin and finish your planned trip. Going up the saddle is much easier than Hamlin Ridge. The cut-off trail contours the mountain at 4,600'.

All the people working at BSP are awesome people. I use to go to BSP headquarters in the middle of January, after the new year rush when I was the only one there. I spent many an hour perusing THE BIG BOOK with Mary Ellen or Gladys ( sometimes Buzz or Brenden would be there) planning my camping trips, really nice people. I've been up Baxter 3 times and Hamlin 4 times and I have never made the cut off times, but it would be a good idea to talk to the rangers. Peakbagger is right, definitely a case by case decision. Just because they let me go , doesn't mean the rangers will let you go.

I want to reiterate the rangers are really nice people. I've talked to at least a dozen of them and have always enjoyed a few laughs with them. I like BSP rules, I drive the speed limit and bring no electronics. I backpack to get away from all that crap, not to bring it with me. Don't forget - the rules are for the animals, not us. We are merely visitors.

When I said I would do that loop, that is the route I'm planning, I've never done it. A person has to be in top shape to accomplish it, and I'm not there- yet. Good luck, sounds like a classic loop.

grog

 

[grog]

Aaron, that's a great hike you planned, I've thought about it many times. The only problem is you have to stay at either Russell Pond or Chimney Pond the night before you stay at Davis Pond. Both times I went up North Brother I was too tired to do Fort, so going up from the east looks like a good alternative. But from all indications it seems like that's a brutal spruce forest. I was going out to Davis Pond last fall to check out the Annis brook bushwack but torrential rain fall made the Wassataquoick Stream impassable from Russell Pond.

Stephen Clarks' book gives the elevation gain at 5,819', of course the ups and downs and my miscalculations could easily add another thousand or so.

grog

 

[deanmacg]

I went up this past weekend and knocked off Coe > Fort and got a firsthand look at the park. I talked to a few folks who have been up Katahdin and also the head ranger. Bottom line is we`ll be heading over to Roaring Brook PA first thing in the AM and heading up that way. The loop is too much and an unsafe idea at this point. Thanks all for your input.