Ladders on Everest

[Maddy]

http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/alt-news/mount-everest-is-getting-crowded.html

I am conflicted. At first I was against it but there are ladders in the Whites and elsewhere. Why not Everest?

What say you?

 

[chipc]

Not being a climber, I'll go with Ed Viesturs' view:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/01/opinion/the-right-way-to-do-the-hillary-step.html?src=twr&_r=0

 

[Maddy]

Not being a climber, I'll go with Ed Viesturs' view:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/01/opinion/the-right-way-to-do-the-hillary-step.html?src=twr&_r=0

I like that approach.

"It will be up to the climbers themselves to coordinate their schedules to avoid overcrowding. This is going to be very hard to do. Personal ambition, a herd mentality and summit fever all too easily overwhelm good judgment."
NY times quote

Personally...I hope they never place a ladder on the Hillary step. Wasn't sure if I was being too harsh in my assessment. Thinking it might be more of a hindrance than a help, attracting even more traffic.

 

[TDawg]

There's a ladder already on the North Col route, correct? Second step? Granted, that Second Step sounds like a tougher climb than Hillary. And the Chinese make the decisions over there.

 

[TCD]

Yes, there has been a ladder at the second step on North Col for many years. Of course the Khumbu ice fall has many ladders, that typically have to be placed anew each season as the ice moves. So one more ladder is no big deal IMO. Should we close the airport at Lukla because Hillary and Tenzing had to walk from Jiri?

(CBC article is a difficult read, conflating several related issues into one big ball of wax.)

 

[Driver8]

I say NO to a ladder on the Hillary Step.

 

[DougPaul]

Of course the Khumbu ice fall has many ladders, that typically have to be placed anew each season as the ice moves. So one more ladder is no big deal IMO.

I agree with Viesturs. (And I expect most experienced mountaineers would also.)

It is not just the number of ladders--the locations are also very important. The ladders in the ice fall are there to make the passage between basecamp and the Western Cwm safer--crossing the ice fall is generally more dangerous than hard and a disproportionate number of the deaths occur here. The Sherpas (working as hired porters) also take the majority of the risk here--they have to pass many times to ferry supplies up to the higher camps. In contrast, the Hillary Step is one of the signature technical difficulties of the South Col route. Bypassing it with a ladder will downgrade the climb and downgrade anyone's achievement in summiting.

Bypassing the Step is an aid to the commercial expedition companies (anything that makes it easier is likely to bring them more business...), but as Viesturs notes, it is not likely to alleviate the congestion. (Much of the upper part of the route is basically single file.)

Should we close the airport at Lukla because Hillary and Tenzing had to walk from Jiri?

The Lukla airport serves far more than just Everest Climbers. The previous 2 week walk-in also served to get the climbers fit, build some altitude acclimatization, and build a team.

Why don't they just drill a railroad tunnel to the summit? It would avoid the steep climbs, the falling rock and ice, the storms, crevasses, and all sorts of other risks and impediments...

Doug

 

[TEO]

Why don't they just drill a railroad tunnel to the summit? It would avoid the steep climbs, the falling rock and ice, the storms, crevasses, and all sorts of other risks and impediments...

Even better: an express elevator like those found in a skyscraper, though it should probably be pressurized. And add a pressurized, in-door viewing room at the summit with an airlock for those wishing to step outside onto a balcony.

It could be the Mt. Washington of the Himalaya.

 

[Quietman]

There is nothing about climbing Everest that appeals to me in the least. Hundred of hikers in line, tons of trash and human waste, waiting over 2 hrs at 28,700, dead bodies, NO THANKS!

 

[TCD]

For solitude, you could always climb the dangerous Kangshung (East) face...no lines, no trash, and no dead bodies (except maybe your own!).

Just like home, the popular routes have all the problems of popularity. But they're popular for a reason, and that won't change unless some kinds of limits are enforced. That's not likely to happen, because crowds on Everest are a financial win for both the guide services and for Nepal and Tibet. Some deaths, and some defacement of the mountain, are part of the price for that.

 

[David Metsky]

Hundred of hikers in line, tons of trash and human waste, waiting over 2 hrs at 28,700, dead bodies, NO THANKS!

Except for the dead bodies and elevation that sounds like Franconia Ridge on Labor Day weekend.

 

[Chip]

NRTTOPB (Not Responding To The Original Post But)...

If I was capable of summiting it would figuratively, and maybe literally, KILL me to have to wait for someone in front of me.

At this point they should maybe install an escalator.

I like the Russian who just Base Jumped off. The decent is the deadliest. That's cool man; flying off...

 

[DougPaul]

I like the Russian who just Base Jumped off. The decent is the deadliest. That's cool man; flying off...

People have also hang-glided off the mountain, hang-glided over the summit, and skied down it.

Doug

 

[Chip]

hang-glided off the mountain...

Doug

I'm going to google that, DP.

I have a hard time believing anyone carried a hang glider too far up. I had a tough time, as a yute, carrying one up the dunes @ Kitty Hawk.

But you're probably correct.

I know Baer Grylls tried to power hang glide up, but I don't think they got over the summit.

 

[TJsName]

There's a ladder already on the North Col route, correct? Second step? Granted, that Second Step sounds like a tougher climb than Hillary. And the Chinese make the decisions over there.

That is correct - but that route is still climbable without a ladder.

If the ladder would prevent the bottleneck, then go for it. I personally don't plan on climbing it, so I don't really care. If the hundreds of people up there want it they can have it.

 

[Quietman]

Regarding the original subject, it seems that the ladder could case more groups to try to summit on a nice day, which would not really solve the problem. The problem seems to be way too many people in a dangerous place at the same time, with no real cooperation between all the parties involved. All the focus is on getting as many clients to the top as possible, as that is what will drive next year's business. And Nepal's only incentive is to collect as many permit fees as they can.

It seems that a lot of people pay a ton of money to do something that may not really be fun or enjoyable, just so they can say that they did it.

As for the ladder, go ahead and put 2 in (1 up and 1 down) since there is already one on the North side. But just pray that a storm doesn't blow in when over 200 people are trying to summit on the same day.

 

[DougPaul]

There's a ladder already on the North Col route, correct? Second step? Granted, that Second Step sounds like a tougher climb than Hillary. And the Chinese make the decisions over there.

That is correct - but that route is still climbable without a ladder

The "Chinese Ladder" was placed by the Chinese on the first substantiated ascent* of that route in 1975. There is a tradition in climbing to try to leave the route in its state as of the first ascent and for all later ascentionists to climb it in the same or better style. Adding a ladder on the Hillary Step violates the tradition and leaving the ladder on the Second Step would be consistent with the tradition. (Removing a first ascent aid is often controversial.)

* The Chinese also claimed to have ascended the route in 1960, but the claim is unsubstantiated. Their highest photo was taken from near the Second Step.

Yes Conrad Anker and Leo Houlding have climbed the step without using the ladder. However they are modern elite climbers using modern gear. Techniques and equipment have improved considerably since Mallory and the first ascent. The fact that they were able to climb the step without the ladder does not mean that the earlier climbers would also have been able to do so.

I have also read a report that Spanish? climbers were able to go around the step on snow. This may have required specific (and possibly unusual) snow conditions. I don't know if this report has been verified. (Most climbers up there are more interested in continuing on the known route to the summit rather than spending their limited time exploring new variations on the route.)

Doug

 

[B the Hiker]

For The Onion's takes on the matter:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/sherpas-may-add-ladder-at-top-of-everest,32623/?ref=auto


Brian

 

[Maddy]

For The Onion's takes on the matter:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/sherpas-may-add-ladder-at-top-of-everest,32623/?ref=auto


Brian

The comments are very funny!

 

[erugs]

What "gets" me is the fun the press of the non-climbing sort have had with the ideas of ladders no Everest. No comment otherwise.