Large Snow Storm hitting northern New England 1/28/2009

[Mattl]

I am sure many of you already know, but we are in for one heck of a snow storm today. This is the same storm that caused all of the power outages and ice from Texas all the way to West Virginia.The low center will revedelop and go over northern Mass then into the Gulf of Maine. The storm will end Thursday morning, but not before dropping 10-24 inches from Central VT, most of NH, and Maine. The jackpot 2 foot amounts look like they will be in the Conway, Tamworth area into the southern Whites and western Maine. Still, the Whites should all see about 2 feet. Be careful hiking tomorrow!

-Matt

 

[Waumbek]

Snow report from Franconia @ 1200': light flakes have just begun.

Here we go again....but it beats -34F of a few weeks ago.

 

[Stash]

I've got no problem with working the snow shoes a bit more. This just means it'll be longer before those pesky rocks start poking through.

 

[Cath]

It's Going to be fun

But remember
www.avalanche.org/~nac/basics/terrain.html

 

[rocket21]

It's Going to be fun

I'll try to think that when I'm shoveling

 

[skiguy]

Ya.....Snow Snorkel Alert

 

[hikingmaineac]

Not to hijack the thread, but...

It's Going to be fun

But remember
www.avalanche.org/~nac/basics/terrain.html

That site says to "not leave home without your slope meter" because "Most slab avalanches occur on slopes with starting zone angles between about 30 and 45 degrees, but slabs occasionally occur on slopes less than 30 degrees."

What sorts of techniques do those of you who like to hike slide, bowls, ravines or other open trails use to estimate the slope of the trail - or do you even bother?

 

[Jay H]

As predicted, turned to rain down here by NYC...

Jay

 

[skiguy]

That site says to "not leave home without your slope meter" because "Most slab avalanches occur on slopes with starting zone angles between about 30 and 45 degrees, but slabs occasionally occur on slopes less than 30 degrees."

What sorts of techniques do those of you who like to hike slide, bowls, ravines or other open trails use to estimate the slope of the trail - or do you even bother?

I like the LifeLink

 

[giggy]

To supplement Cath's post:


Typically used for climbing and skiing - but helpful for hikes as well.
http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/avalanche/

Only good for the wash ravines, but useful for planning other events. Updated daily for those that have not seen this.

I also have found it a good tool for weather speculation. I find they will often discuss a future event a couple days prior and how it may or may not impact current conditions.

Today would be a bad day to climb a tuck or hunt gully.

 

[giggy]

That site says to "not leave home without your slope meter" because "Most slab avalanches occur on slopes with starting zone angles between about 30 and 45 degrees, but slabs occasionally occur on slopes less than 30 degrees."

What sorts of techniques do those of you who like to hike slide, bowls, ravines or other open trails use to estimate the slope of the trail - or do you even bother?

the gullies in tuckerman like right, lobster claw, etc.. typically are 30 to 40 degrees. something like N Tri slide, I am guessing would be the 25 degree range. Gulies are thr garbage dumps of mountains... everything comes down them - snow, ice, rocks, etc..

Trails, I would look out for sliding in the whites on a day like today (not a complete list, cuz I have not been on every trail )

- anything up a ravine, tucks, hunts, king, oaks, castle, gulf of slides, great gulf, etc...

- any of the slides.
- east snowfeilds on wash

- there is a spot on the gulfside trail that crosses the upper large gully (not really sure I would call it a gully) of jefferson ravine. That appears to be in the 25 degree range and after big snow, a hiker crossing and unstable snow pack could send that to slide.


having witnesses hillmans highway slide 2 years ago at a very up close range (too close) - skimom remember that??????, I now take east coast avy's very seriously.

sometime in the early 2000's - a slide out of huntington ravine took the first aid catch for something like a 1/4 of a mile down the lower ravine. I remember hiking by it after - saying WOW.


just a FYI sicne I had 10 minutes before my next meeting at work

 

[DougPaul]

What sorts of techniques do those of you who like to hike slide, bowls, ravines or other open trails use to estimate the slope of the trail - or do you even bother?

My compass (Silva Ranger CL) has an inclinometer.

You can also estimate some angles using your ski poles:
* 1 up and 1 horizontal = 45 deg
* 1/2 up and 1 horizontal = 27 deg

Doug

 

[hikingmaineac]

My compass (Silva Ranger CL) has an inclinometer.

You can also estimate some angles using your ski poles:
* 1 up and 1 horizontal = 45 deg
* 1/2 up and 1 horizontal = 27 deg

Doug

Both of these work for me as I have that compass too, and never knew what to do with it. Thanks!

 

[DrewKnight]

4-5" down in Waterville Valley at 3pm on Wednesday. It has been snowing lightly to moderately since about 8am. No real wind or drifting so far.

 

[Cath]

Determining the slope, with a card

I got my "card" back in the 90's when I attended USFS Avalanche school.
It's a very useful tool, but I like the link that SkiGuy put up, looks a bit more helpful / accurate. Doug Paul gave good basic info to put to use too.

The most important thing is to be aware of the terrain you are going to consider hiking in when we have one of these winter events. Two Feet of snow is a lot in one dumping, and when it's dry / sugary it's not going to bond with the previous snow surface & layers for a bit.

As Giggy noted, the Mt Washington Observatory site updates their info daily as posted by the Tuckerman Snow Ranger. That information can be applied thru out our region. Ever notice the broken trees on the Pine Link trail (snowfield) near Howker Ridge trail ? Small avalanche area, but even a small slide can knock you off your feet & do some damage to you. The snowfield above Edmand's Col can be nasty too. The steep section just after (north) North Carter summit on CM trail. Again, broken trees are a clue.

There's a ton of information out there for us to read up on.
www.tuckerman.org/avalanche/scale.htm

Play Hard - Play Safe = Play Often

 

[skiguy]

The most important thing is to be aware of the terrain you are going to consider hiking in when we have one of these winter events. Two Feet of snow is a lot in one dumping, and when it's dry / sugary it's not going to bond with the previous snow surface & layers for a bit.

Totally agree. Also in tandem would be understanding the evolvement of the current season's snowpack. Between the ground never really freezing hard and then a hard smooth layer as the base layer this is and will be an active year. I was always amazed when the Randolph Path slided between the Log cabin and the Perch about 2/3 of the way from the former to the latter back in the mid to late 80's.

 

[skibones]

4-5" down in Waterville Valley at 3pm on Wednesday. It has been snowing lightly to moderately since about 8am. No real wind or drifting so far.

X-C skied by your house this afternoon. Powder on top of groomed--it was great!
Skibones

 

[DougPaul]

The most important thing is to be aware of the terrain you are going to consider hiking in when we have one of these winter events. Two Feet of snow is a lot in one dumping, and when it's dry / sugary it's not going to bond with the previous snow surface & layers for a bit.

Also affected by temp: the snow takes longer to consolidate when it is colder.

Some simple rules of thumb:
* if it is snowing 1 inch/hour or more the risk will increase
* 1 foot or more in 24 hrs produces high risk
* rain can increase the risk
* most avalanches fall during or shortly after the end of the snowfall.
* most fatal avalanches are triggered by the victim or other nearby people

Doug

 

[skiguy]

Also affected by temp: the snow takes longer to consolidate when it is colder.

Doug

Could you elaborate more on this point. Thanks

 

[DougPaul]

Also affected by temp: the snow takes longer to consolidate when it is colder.

Could you elaborate more on this point. Thanks

Once fallen and deposited somewhere, snow crystals tend to bond (constructive metamorphism). This bonding happens faster when the temp is warmer. At Antarctic temps it can take weeks.

An example of this constructive metamorphism is building a tent platform. Stomping around in the area with your snowshoes accelerates the bonding by compressing the snow. You then wait an hour or so for the bonds to form. The colder it is, the weaker the platform (or the longer you need to wait).


And, of course, there are plenty of events that can cause destructive metamorphism (weakening of the bonds): temperature gradients in the snow, rain, and others. These can make a previously stable slope unstable.

Doug