Lost hiker in the Pemi

[miehoff]

I find it kind of disturbing that most of these discussions about rescues are focused on carelessness and getting charged (or not). Really, what does it matter? The rescues will happen, the carelessness will continue...forever. People have been doing it...forever. Just go out and be prepared and have fun. What does speculating and hashing over the same thing accomplish? It almost feels like other hikers like the drama of someone becoming possibly being charged and publicly criticized because of their possible screw-up. I do feel for the Fish and Game and others that become involved, and I don't want that part of things to be confused with my point.

Edit: In the end, if this guy and others get charged for specific and seemingly trivial stuff like crossing a river when it is unsafe, or hiking alone, or not having a PLB; does that mean that hikers will hike in fear of being charged? Maybe the "fear" trend on this planet is crossing over into the hiking world? Do hikers really have to fasten their seat belt a million times and call a lawyer every time they set out? Why can't we just be a little nuts sometimes and live a bit and take a chance without the hassle?

Anyway. I think it's disturbing and kind of sad.

That's it.

 

[NHClimber]

Miehoff, you are talking about every aspect of our society today, not just hiker rescues!

 

[miehoff]

Yes:

"Maybe the "fear" trend on this planet is crossing over into the hiking world?"

 

[Raven]

Yes:

"Maybe the "fear" trend on this planet is crossing over into the hiking world?"

I see your point. At some point, maybe hikers will police themselves enough to completely lose the freedom of the hills. Let's hope not.

There is no point to fear. People are manipulated through fear. Just as there is no point to worry. Glad this guy is safe. Glad there are people willing to go out and do search and rescue. Glad for the freedom to walk essentially where and how I choose.

 

[peakbagger]

I find it kind of disturbing that most of these discussions about rescues are focused on carelessness and getting charged (or not). Really, what does it matter? The rescues will happen, the carelessness will continue...forever. People have been doing it...forever. Just go out and be prepared and have fun. What does speculating and hashing over the same thing accomplish? It almost feels like other hikers like the drama of someone becoming possibly being charged and publicly criticized because of their possible screw-up. I do feel for the Fish and Game and others that become involved, and I don't want that part of things to be confused with my point.

Edit: In the end, if this guy and others get charged for specific and seemingly trivial stuff like crossing a river when it is unsafe, or hiking alone, or not having a PLB; does that mean that hikers will hike in fear of being charged? Maybe the "fear" trend on this planet is crossing over into the hiking world? Do hikers really have to fasten their seat belt a million times and call a lawyer every time they set out? Why can't we just be a little nuts sometimes and live a bit and take a chance without the hassle?

Anyway. I think it's disturbing and kind of sad.

That's it.

Not really sure what thread you are reading. It started out as standard rescue thread and then after the hiker was safe, transitioned to "what if". I don't see the fear aspect you are trying to add into it? The reckless aspect and Hike Safe was possibly brought up as Fish and Game has raised that issue in the past. I expect at some point he will end up on the news with a bedside interview, I can speculate that at least some aspect may be "in hind site I should have XXX"

 

[TEO]

Thanks for this. I need to give this a good look.

The ACR ResQLink+ is also available at WestMarine & REI.

I've carried a McMurdo FastFind since I started doing more remote solo hikes and solo bushwhacking some years ago. I think it is a great alternative to the subscription-based non-PLBs and/or if you want to maintain a bit more of disconnect from civilization when you hike.

 

[Hill Junkie]

The ACR ResQLink+ is also available at WestMarine & REI.

I've carried a McMurdo FastFind since I started doing more remote solo hikes and solo bushwhacking some years ago. I think it is a great alternative to the subscription-based non-PLBs and/or if you want to maintain a bit more of disconnect from civilization when you hike.

I picked up the ACR ResQLink a year ago as my solo hikes grew longer with bushwhacks. In theory, PLB's should be more reliable in rugged tree covered terrain due to longer wavelength (406MHz) and much higher transmit powers than tracker devices such as SPOT that use the Globalstar satellite network. SPOT users have complained of spotty (hehe) messaging and tracking reliability, which makes me question how reliable they are in emergency situations. Kate Matrosova was carrying a SPOT beacon when she ran into trouble. Unfortunately, it sent some pretty wild position coordinates http://www.catskillmountaineer.com/reviews-winterhikingKM.html. Hard to say if more reliable coordinates could have saved her. PLB's are designed for one purpose only, SOS when you need it, and don't carry recurring subscription fees. Ships and planes have used this distress network for many years. Established reliability.

 

[sierra]

There is a bunch of people on FB basically roasting this guy on the spit and no details have even got out yet. Frankly, I think its highly presumptuous. Everybody is an expert now and perfectly willing to dispense wisdom and experience on how they could have avoided the scenario. If I had to speculate, I'd say he was on LBT and lost it. It can be quite messy in there. He saw the ridge and figured he could either get out that way or get cell phone reception to call 911 again. One thing all these experts don't realize is that in stressful epics, sometimes simple logic is hard to come by. Everybody reacts differently and how well you can "stay on point" is critical. I've had a few epics and the found that I had to actually sit down and regain my focus, first impulses lead to poor decision making, if you can't recover from that "freaking out" period, you can lead yourself quickly down a path to failure. I was very happy they got him. Considering he fell into a brook, was in deep snow and had to deal with the temps and conditions of the Shoulder season ( which is tough), on face value, I think he did pretty good to survive. Later if we get details, it could be a fun discussion.

 

[DougPaul]

Kate Matrosova was carrying a SPOT beacon when she ran into trouble. Unfortunately, it sent some pretty wild position coordinates http://www.catskillmountaineer.com/reviews-winterhikingKM.html. Hard to say if more reliable coordinates could have saved her. PLB's are designed for one purpose only, SOS when you need it, and don't carry recurring subscription fees. Ships and planes have used this distress network for many years. Established reliability.

The unnamed author of this report gives no references (authoritative or otherwise) that Matrosova was carrying a SPOT rather than a PLB. In contrast, Sandy Stott (the Appalachia accidents reports editor), specifically identifies the unit as an ACR ResQLink+*. The SAR activation procedure and call sequence described (ie initial notification coming through the US Air Force Rescue Coordination Center at Tyndall AFB in Florida) is also consistent with a PLB but not a SPOT*.

* Stott, Sandy, Appalachia, summer/fall 2016, pp 64-79.

Note that a PLB, once activated, will continue to send out distress calls automatically until it is shut down or the batteries die. This would continue to give location reports for an extended period without any action by the operator (who could have become incapacitated).

The unnamed author also appears to have an incomplete knowledge of how SPOTs and PLBs operate.

Note that no satellite-based locator (GPS and others) is guaranteed to give an accurate location all the time**. While there are numerous anecdotal reports of inaccurate locations from SPOTs and experiments (described in the Appalachia article) have shown that an ACR PLB can also give inaccurate locations if it is lying on its side (rather than upright). It is entirely possible that the first position was accurate because the PLB was upright and the remaining ones were less accurate because it had blown over.

** GPS accuracy specs are stated and x% probability of being with y meters of the location under proper operating conditions.

Many other assertions in this article also appear to be speculation--I can find no authoritative articles that corroborate them. It looks to me like the (unnamed) author took a few facts and wove a story to fill in the gaps. The author also gets a few things wrong about hiking in the winter Pressies that suggesting that he has never done so himself...

IMO, the article reads nicely, but contains too much fiction to be reliable.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Later if we get details, it could be a fun discussion.

I agree--the real details could be interesting. Until we get them, unsubstantiated assumptions and speculation serve little purpose.

Doug

 

[Trail Boss]

Disclaimer: I don't own a PLB nor SEND device.

....In theory, PLB's should be more reliable in rugged tree covered terrain due to longer wavelength (406MHz) and much higher transmit powers than tracker devices such as SPOT ...

You're comparing the operating frequency of one device to another. So what's the frequency used by the SPOT?

...Kate Matrosova was carrying a SPOT beacon when she ran into trouble.

According to the Bloomberg article "Trader in the Wild", Matrosova had an ACR Resqlink.
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-trader-in-the-wild/
(Plus DougPaul's reply)

... Hard to say if more reliable coordinates could have saved her.

Agreed; it would be hard to say.
<speculation>
She activated the emergency signal after retreating from Adams. With no means to survive the brutal conditions, she would've been exposed during the several hours it took the first rescue team to arrive in the col. Even with reliable coordinates it might have been too late to save her life.
</speculation>

... PLB's are designed for one purpose only, SOS when you need it, and don't carry recurring subscription fees. Ships and planes have used this distress network for many years. Established reliability.

Agreed; PLBs have established a history of reliability over the many years they've been available. Of course, one shouldn't lump all PLB hardware together. All that can be said is that all PLBs use the COSPAS-SARSAT system and it works well. How each model of PLB hardware fares is a separate discussion.

SEND devices (like SPOT and inReach) can transmit a "breadcrumb" track of your movements. This can also be useful to searchers in the event you are disabled and cannot activate the emergency button. The breadcrumb trail leads to your last known position. A SEND can also transmit messages (an inReach can also receive them) and this is handy for informing others of status (such as if you're delayed by weather or minor injury). Of course, all of this comes at the cost of a subscription fee. Like you said, PLBs have no subscription fee. Their operating costs are limited to battery replacement (every 5 years or so).

 

[Hill Junkie]

Disclaimer: I don't own a PLB nor SEND device.

You're comparing the operating frequency of one device to another. So what's the frequency used by the SPOT?

It was on the internet, it must be true! We all get burned sometimes.

Spot uses the GlobalStar network, which uses an uplink frequency of 1.6GHz. A distress signal would transmit at this frequency. The downlink use 2.5GHz, which is used in two-way communication, like sat phones. Not much is published about Spot transmit power. One reference I can't independently back up says 0.4W. InReach publishes 1.6W peak power and also operates near 1.6GHz. The ACR beacon transmits at 5W. Attenuation by vegetation is a complex subject. The type of trees and what angle the signal must pass through the trees produce considerable variations. Some pine trees can have big impact on 1.6GHz with little impact on 406MHz. Other tree types have small impact at both frequencies. One cannot simply compare transmit power and say higher is better either, without considering the whole link budget. The sensitivity of the receiver in space is an important part of this. What primarily sold me on going with a PLB vs SPOT was this. PLBs use a system that was developed for emergency rescue, while SEND devices use networks that were developed with other motivations. When your phone drops a call, it is a nuisance. If your distress signal doesn't get out, you might die. Saving many hundreds in subscription fees over time helped sway me towards PLB too Certainly pros and cons to each. Either are way better than relying solely on a cell phone. I sometimes carry both when I know I'll have cell signal most of the time.

 

[Becca M]

The trails in the Pemi on the East Side of Franconia Ridge (Franconia Brook/Lincoln Brook) are not maintained for "winter" travel, right? - it is not surprising people get lost in there if that's where he got lost.

No bridges/minimal maintenance..... these rescues cost FAR more that a bit more maintenance would.

 

[Trail Boss]

@Hill Junkie
I agree the subject of attenuation is best summarized as "It's complicated."

I believe all consumer satellite communications, including GPS, operate in the L band.

• GPS uses L1 (1575.42 MHz).
• Iridium, employed by Garmin/Delorme's inReach, uses 1621.35–1626.5 MHz.
• Globalstar, employed by SPOT, uses 1610 - 1618.25 MHz (uplink).

Purely anecdotal but a friend switched from a SPOT Connect to a Delorme inReach SE and reports better performance. Outgoing messages are dispatched faster and more reliably. Both products operate in the same frequency neighborhood so how they go about doing it seems to make a difference (i.e. implementation and execution is important).

 

[iAmKrzys]

While I am a big fan of gps and satellite tracking devices, I must say that the most cost-effective solution to "I don't know where I am" problem is a phone app that can download maps for off-line use, and OpenStreetMap has many if not most trails marked in the area. This would likely not prevent a mishap like falling into a stream but otherwise could make the situation less complicated.

 

[DougPaul]

While I am a big fan of gps and satellite tracking devices, I must say that the most cost-effective solution to "I don't know where I am" problem is a phone app that can download maps for off-line use, and OpenStreetMap has many if not most trails marked in the area. This would likely not prevent a mishap like falling into a stream but otherwise could make the situation less complicated.

Cellphone GPS chipsets are optimized for low power consumption which may come at the cost of reduced performance, particularly in less than optimal conditions (poor skyview, multipath, etc).

A friend and I compared the GPS tracks from his iphone 4s and my Garmin 60CSx: the iphone track had significant excursions from our (known) route, the 60CSx did not. (The walk was under trees, but terrain was not a problem.) Also a phone GPS drains a battery that may be needed for communication.

The trail coverage of OSM is spotty--good in some places, not so good in others.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Agreed; it would be hard to say.
<speculation>
She activated the emergency signal after retreating from Adams. With no means to survive the brutal conditions, she would've been exposed during the several hours it took the first rescue team to arrive in the col. Even with reliable coordinates it might have been too late to save her life.
</speculation>

The party that found her required about 5 hours to reach her from the trailhead. If we add 2-3 hours from the initial distress call to leaving the trailhead, it would be 7-8 hours. Given the conditions, there is a significant probability that she would not have survived that long.

Agreed; PLBs have established a history of reliability over the many years they've been available. Of course, one shouldn't lump all PLB hardware together. All that can be said is that all PLBs use the COSPAS-SARSAT system and it works well. How each model of PLB hardware fares is a separate discussion.

The COSPAS-SARSAT system was established in 1988 to handle distress calls from ELTs (aircraft) and EPIRBs (boats). PLBs were first allowed in the early 2000s (2003 in the USA) so much of the experience is pre-PLB. PLBs are designed to be easy for humans to carry while the others are carried by machines. I don't have time to check right now, but it is possible that the ELTs and EPIRBs broadcast a stronger signal than a PLB and can contain a much longer-lasting battery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Cospas-Sarsat_Programme
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_position-indicating_radiobeacon_station

(Note: it appears that EPIRB can also have a more general meaning--ELTs and PLBs are specific types of EPIRB.)

Doug

 

[Hillwalker]

I find this thread very interesting, informative and it raises a question from my hiking past. When we hiked the Long Range Traverse in Newfoundland a couple of years ago, the authorities required us to carry an device they said was to locate us in the event we "got lost". It consisted of a plastic tube about 8 inches long and one inch in diameter with about an 8 inch long thin wire coming out of one end. We just stuffed it in one of our packs and forgot about it until we finished our hike, then returned it to the park office. What do you suppose it was? I highly recommend this hike to anyone who wants some experience crossing pathless terrain far from civilization. It is also a really great boat ride across the Great Eastern Pond to get to the trail-head.

 

[iAmKrzys]

The trail coverage of OSM is spotty--good in some places, not so good in others.

We don't know (at least from the press articles posted so far) where exactly the hiker was found, but here is OSM link for the general area:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/44.1405/-71.6319&layers=C

I don't dispute that OSM coverage is spotty in some places but I think it is getting better every day.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I don't dispute that OSM coverage is spotty in some places but I think it is getting better every day.

It has both of the Owl's Head bushwhacks labeled and drawn on the map.

Tim