Make room for a cell phone -- the eleventh essential?

[TomD]

Maddy, I'm not saying don't carry one, but I know for certain that here in CA, people are out in the wild without a clue or adequate gear because I read about them or see them on the tv news being rescued fairly regularly. Do they use their cel phone to call for help? Often.

But, if they had a small pack, some food, a headlamp, and a map and compass or GPS, they wouldn't be calling for rescue because they wouldn't have gotten lost in the first place.

 

[Maddy]

Maddy, I'm not saying don't carry one, but I know for certain that here in CA, people are out in the wild without a clue or adequate gear because I read about them or see them on the tv news being rescued fairly regularly. Do they use their cel phone to call for help? Often.

But, if they had a small pack, some food, a headlamp, and a map and compass or GPS, they wouldn't be calling for rescue because they wouldn't have gotten lost in the first place.

I totally agree with you. I should have worded my post differently.
I wanted to emphasize the fact that there is a percentage of folks who for whatever reason do not appreciate the kind of terrain, the changing weather patterns,etc. that they might encounter in the mountain. They just don't think the way we do and probably never will. I can recall having a heated discussion with a friend when we went on a "nordic ski" vacation in the Whites. She flat out refused to carry a pack and I finally had to explain to her that we were going nowhere unless she got busy filling her pack with the essentials. She finally relented and we were able to continue on our journey. It was bitter cold with high winds and she was very sobered up when we finally got out on the trails.
Some folks also think that if they do call 911 help will arrive in record time just like at home.
I am presently in a position where I am helping a friend to understand why she should carry a small pack when she hikes in wooded areas in the winter. It's been a real reminder to me how an inexperienced person can have no clue that they could so easily be walking unprepared into a potentially dangerous situation.
I often feel like there is not really good way to reach these people unless they are your friends and you can educate them on a one to one.
We know there is a web site "Hike Safe", they certainly don't.
I suppose a cell phone is definitely better than nothing.

 

[TomD]

I think we're pretty much on the same page on this one. A couple of years ago, I did a day hike with friends and we got caught out in the growing darkness on the way back. Never going to happen to me again. I should have known better. Actually, I did know better, but did not know how far we were hiking.

Another lesson-I used to be a scuba instructor. The basic rule for divers is never get into the water if you are not absolutely sure how you are going to get out. Made that mistake once too-diving with someone I should have known better not to trust his judgment. Fortunately, no major catastrophe, but I did get hurt and was really p.o.'d at myself for letting it happen.

So, I guess that lesson is know who you are with and whose judgment you can trust.

 

[Lou Hale]

Hey, if my cell phone is based in CT and I call 911 in NH (just saying ) the call goes to a super-regional 911 operator, right ? So if you do use 911 you have to be very careful and clear regarding where, exactly you are and what the problem is, no ? Don't assume the person who answers is local.

(This looks a job for...Dah DahDah DAHHH...Super Doug Paul )

assume nothing! but many 911 calls from cell phones will route you to a local dispatch based on the tower or switch the call originated from. If multiple towers are available the can triangulate your position and know exactly where you are its called E 911 and its been around at least 5-6 years if not more.

I remember doing a ride along with a Cingular network tech from CT at least 5 years ago. We drove to a parking lot in brattleboro VT called 911 and asked for our location they were able to give us the street address with in a few house numbers.

To call 911 from a cell phone you don't even need a plan all you need is a phone with a charged battery. To the best of my knowledge any phone on a plan or not will allow a 911 call through as long as there is a signal.

Phones have roaming lists and preferred networks loaded in to thier memory or on thier sim card that determines if you have service and can make a call. This is why some old phones won't work where new ones will or vise versa. If you don't have service and need to call 911 try taking the sim card out at which point the phone will only allow 911 calls on any compatible(like kind or analog) signal its able to pick up (sprint/verizon/att all use different signal formats that are not compatible across networks).

 

[Grumpy]

Maddy, I'm not saying don't carry one, but I know for certain that here in CA, people are out in the wild without a clue or adequate gear because I read about them or see them on the tv news being rescued fairly regularly. Do they use their cel phone to call for help? Often.

But, if they had a small pack, some food, a headlamp, and a map and compass or GPS, they wouldn't be calling for rescue because they wouldn't have gotten lost in the first place.

Wait a minute.

As long as there has been hiking there have been unprepared hikers taking to the woods and hills. This phenomenon did not start with advent of the cell phone, by any means. Cell phones do not cause unpreparedness, or lost or overdue hikers. To make (or imply) such a connection is absurd.

The reality is that in the BCP (before cell phone) era, perhaps a higher percentage of the unprepared either perished or became seriously hurt or ill, or a greater percentage managed to self rescue on the basis of their own grit and imagination. (Or some combination of the two.) We probably never heard about many of the self-extractions involving unplanned overnight stays in the woods, or ones that involved relatively minor, even if painful injuries in an era when it wasn't so readily possible to share tales of such exploits for all in a vast audience to digest (pre-internet, or more accurately, before internet service was ubiquitous) .

Furthermore, if there are greater numbers of the unprepared out there today than in days of yore it probably has more to do with a combination of factors than with cell phones. Consider the internet, "reality" TV, leisure time availability, increased disposable income to support playtime, fitness mania, and a host of other cultural things that attract new people to the activity. They bring their cell phones, imported from a general lifestyle.

Also, having adequate equipment is no guarantee that a party will not run into trouble, by any means. Folks have to know how to properly use map, compass, GPS and all the other paraphernalia in order for it to do them any good. Not that learning those skills is difficult, but they do have to be acquired. Gear alone never protected anyone. Knowing how to make use of it has prevented uncountable inconveniences and sad stories.

Finally, there is the very substantial probability that the authorities will become involved and see the incident through to closure when a distressed hiking party makes a 911 call on a cell phone. Once that happens it becomes a matter of public record for all to see.

G.

 

[DougPaul]

assume nothing! but many 911 calls from cell phones will route you to a local dispatch based on the tower or switch the call originated from. If multiple towers are available the can triangulate your position and know exactly where you are its called E 911 and its been around at least 5-6 years if not more.

Including assuming that E911 will work*. It was supposed to have been implemented years ago, but it is my understanding that it is currently far from implemented everywhere.

* The 911 part should work if you have a signal. Just locater part may not work.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Also, having adequate equipment is no guarantee that a party will not run into trouble, by any means. Folks have to know how to properly use map, compass, GPS and all the other paraphernalia in order for it to do them any good. Not that learning those skills is difficult, but they do have to be acquired. Gear alone never protected anyone. Knowing how to make use of it has prevented uncountable inconveniences and sad stories.

Furthermore, even having adequate equipment and knowing how to use it is no guarantee that a party will not run into trouble. (Serious accidents can happen to anyone.) Just lessens the chance of trouble.

Doug

 

[Grumpy]

Furthermore, even having adequate equipment and knowing how to use it is no guarantee that a party will not run into trouble. (Serious accidents can happen to anyone.) Just lessens the chance of trouble.

Doug

I'm not sure it necessarily lessens the chance of getting into trouble. It depends on individuals. Well equipped, well skilled parties (that includes soloists) may be inclined to stretch their envelope, which can lead them into difficulties. I would say that having adequate equipment and knowing how to use it greatly enhances the likelihood that a party may be able to safely (if uncomfortably) self-extract when overreaching occurs.

G.

 

[DougPaul]

I'm not sure it necessarily lessens the chance of getting into trouble. It depends on individuals. Well equipped, well skilled parties (that includes soloists) may be inclined to stretch their envelope, which can lead them into difficulties. I would say that having adequate equipment and knowing how to use it greatly enhances the likelihood that a party may be able to safely (if uncomfortably) self-extract when overreaching occurs.

It probably works both ways. For instance, navigation skill and equipment reduces the chance that one will get lost, but can encourage one to go to more "interesting" places.

My guess is that overall it reduces the risk in places like the Whites and the DAKs. Look at how many people are rescued for beginner/incompetence related things like "lost, no map, no compass, no GPS" but have a cell phone or had to be searched for.

Doug

 

[Grumpy]

... My guess is that overall it reduces the risk in places like the Whites and the DAKs. Look at how many people are rescued for beginner/incompetence related things like "lost, no map, no compass, no GPS" but have a cell phone or had to be searched for.

Doug

Then, let's look at this using actual case studies and statistical methods. We might be surprised. I'd also like to see competent analyses of types and severity of incidents according to who is involved. The more comprehensive, the better. Real data from reliable sources would be nice to have before reaching conclusions about this.

I am not arguing against preparedness. I am arguing against jumping to intuitive but essentially uninformed conclusions.

G.

 

[DougPaul]

My guess is that ...

I am arguing against jumping to intuitive but essentially uninformed conclusions.

That was an opinion, not a conclusion.

Doug