More trail closings?

[peakbagger]

Here is the actual order from Governor Sununu:

https://www.nhpr.org/sites/nhpr/files/202003/StayAtHome_emergency-order-17-1.pdf

and the relevant snippit:


4. Beginning at 11:59 p.m. on March 27, 2020, New Hampshire citizens shall stay at home
or in their place of residence with the following exceptions:
a) Leaving home to get fresh air or exercise, provided that social distancing
protocols consistent with guidance from the Division of Public Health are
observed;
b) Leaving home for outdoor recreation provided that appropriate social distancing
protocols are observed and provided that such recreation complies with any
limitations contained within Executive Order 2020-04 and any Emergency
Orders issued pursuant to Executive Order 2020-04;


BTW, it has been extended to May 15

Tim

A correction, (correct as of this morning) the NH state of emergency order has been extended to the 15th as it has already been extended previously as the maximum duration of each order can not exceed three weeks. This gives the governor and his administration special powers. The stay at home order has not yet been extended and still ends May 6th. The governor has stated that as that date comes closer he will review if a delay is needed. He has also stated that he does not expect it to be a blanket end to the order, rather a phased approach. Easy to get confused.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Thank you - I did try and add 21 days to May 4 and could not land on the 15th Personally, I am riding locally (from / to my house), as the local conservation lands are simply too crowded right now. I've used my car exactly once in the last 6 weeks, because it needed an inspection and a recall repair, outside of grocery shopping. Yes, I miss the mountains. Gryffin does too

Tim

 

[peakbagger]

Like some others, I have it very easy. I live in the Adirondacks, I'm retired, and I prefer to bushwhack. So this situation has not really changed my hiking at all.

There is obviously a conflict in NH between the Governor's order and the USFS order; it does not sound like this is all well thought out, and I think the USFS order will backfire and resulting in more crowding together of people. I would expect to see more changes in the next couple weeks as the outcomes become visible.

One thing that may come out of this is that more folks will take the plunge into off-trail travel. I hope everyone is careful. This might be a great time for guide services and outfitters (if they are allowed to) to start offering one-on-one land navigation training...

BTW NH F&G a couple of weeks ago suggested that major hikes and off trail travel were not recommended at this time due to risk to rescue personnel. The recommendation was to stick to less risky more popular trails (many of which are no longer accessible by car per the WMNF order). Sad to say there definitely does not appear to be any coordination between the parties which may be good thing as a coordinated approach would probably be the conservative one and close all the trails down.

 

[Peppersass]

And while at the beach don't stop moving and under no conditions are you to bask in the sun while not moving......Maybe best to keep car parked at home right now and not in the whites anyways.

Living on FL west coast now and while our beaches are still closed, they could open if the "stay moving" is enforced. Our inland hiking trailheads are also closed but we are permitted to park on the side of the road if we need to use our cars. With so much closed, and the encouragement to go out and exercise, crowds are crazy in the areas that remain open. A good plan? They are rethinking that strategy.

Anyway, we are coming up to the Whites 4th of July week with our grandkids to hike and seeing a lot of hostility toward out-of-staters on FB because it appears many are coming to NH to recreate right now. We have one AMC hut stay and can't imagine how that will work. I fully expect that not to but AMC emails are saying they are taking reservations still and will figure it out. Stay tuned.

 

[richard]

White Mountain News. https://www.concordmonitor.com/NH-COVID-19-update-for-Saturday-April-25-34054695 As of Saturday

 

[dug]

This is an easy statement to make for someone who lives in the Whites and enjoys the caliber of "local" hikes you have. I live in CT and have been staying local and I can tell you it is NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE SAME THING. Not even close. So I totally get why people go there. I'm not doing it, I realize it is irresponsible, but I also I miss it like hell. That is like saying "just eat the food you have and be happy" when you have a pile of filet mignon and lobster and I have stale boxes of corn flakes. The "same" is not "equal".

There's pluses and minuses with everywhere one chooses to live. But, it's a choice. If someone loves big cities and lives in Gorham, NH, they will be disappointed in that aspect. Conversely, if someone loves the mountains but lives far away, they run the risk of them not being as accessible. Not sure because someone chose to have corn flakes they can complain about someone else' choice of filet.

The filet will still be there later.

 

[NHClimber]

We have a stay at home order not a shelter in place.
https://www.nhpr.org/post/gov-sununu-answers-questions-stay-home-order
At least at this date, hiking was encouraged and the ability to social distance on trails was supported.
I keep telling myself I shouldn't let this get to me because I can also walk to some trails, and am grateful for that but it does. Selective closing of trails some of which I've recently been to without incident doesnt make sense.Yes out of state cars were there, but hiking groups were small 1-3 and kept their distance. Meanwhile videos of mt. major yesterday show lines of cars on either side for minutes of travel. Same as I noticed hiking from ferncroft last month which is now closed and did not have that issue.

Thank you for clarifying. You are correct. I misread the order. Of course, we’ve been just heading into the state forest and WMNF behind our house. This explains why we saw so many people in the state forest yesterday. Some distancing and some not. But more people than we’ve ever seen.

 

[egilbe]

Hiking in NH or Maine is like having a swimming pool in your back yard. Insurance calls it an "attractive nuisance" and requires the homeowner to put a fence around it to keep the stupid kids from drowning in it. The hiking trails in Maine and NH are an attractive nusiance. Remove the temptation and the stupid kids will stop trying to hike them.

 

[DayTrip]

There's pluses and minuses with everywhere one chooses to live. But, it's a choice. If someone loves big cities and lives in Gorham, NH, they will be disappointed in that aspect. Conversely, if someone loves the mountains but lives far away, they run the risk of them not being as accessible. Not sure because someone chose to have corn flakes they can complain about someone else' choice of filet.

The filet will still be there later.

Yes it is a choice but this assumes we all have the economic means, job security and lack of obligations to just go move where we want to be, provide a living there, etc. For many of us, the occasional drive to go be where we want to be, even if it's only a few days or a few hours, is all we have and maybe will ever have. And many of us didn't learn or develop our love of the mountains from day one so there is plenty of other factors woven into our lives to simply choose to live somewhere else now.

In the meantime we live with our disappointment until our next opportunity. And that was my only point. When incredulous locals look at all the plates from other states and can't fathom why people would drive up there right now I think the reason is pretty obvious. Doesn't make it right but it's obvious.

 

[dailey7779]

This is an easy statement to make for someone who lives in the Whites and enjoys the caliber of "local" hikes you have. I live in CT and have been staying local and I can tell you it is NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE SAME THING. Not even close. So I totally get why people go there. I'm not doing it, I realize it is irresponsible, but I also I miss it like hell. That is like saying "just eat the food you have and be happy" when you have a pile of filet mignon and lobster and I have stale boxes of corn flakes. The "same" is not "equal".

All it takes is one person to lets say need roadside assistance and maybe that person is asymatic and passes it to a local who is then also asymatic who then passes it unknowingly to others at the grocery store or gas station and then the ball goes rolling down hill from there where our hospitals capacity/equipment are the equivalent of stale corn flakes to your filet and lobster of southern New England. That's why it's been disheartening to see people still coming up from far away, it's playing Russian roulette.

P.S. I lived in RI for 28 years and CT for 6 before moving up here. I always enjoyed my stale cornflakes

 

[dug]

Yes it is a choice but this assumes we all have the economic means, job security and lack of obligations to just go move where we want to be, provide a living there, etc. For many of us, the occasional drive to go be where we want to be, even if it's only a few days or a few hours, is all we have and maybe will ever have. And many of us didn't learn or develop our love of the mountains from day one so there is plenty of other factors woven into our lives to simply choose to live somewhere else now.

In the meantime we live with our disappointment until our next opportunity. And that was my only point. When incredulous locals look at all the plates from other states and can't fathom why people would drive up there right now I think the reason is pretty obvious. Doesn't make it right but it's obvious.

But, it's still a choice. I lived on a farm once for a few years with 100 acres. Had an after-reunion party and a friend's boyfriend who grew up in Boston was there. He was amazed there could be several dozen people around an open field with a huge fire going on and nobody would bother us. He wanted to up and move from Boston right then and there. I asked him "How far is the closest store if you needed to go on a beer run?" He replied "it's a two-minute walk". I told him we'd have to get in a car and drive 15-minutes each way. Only one place delivered food there. He was less enamored.

So, now, I make no assumptions on everyone's economic means, job security, accessibility to what's important, etc. We all make life choices on where we want to work and where we want to live and nobody has the right to say "well your backyard is better than mine so I'm coming to yours" (And, to be clear, I don't mean YOU specifically - just a generalization).

We have family who live in the North Woods and many times I've thought about moving there. The factors you mention apply to myself as well, and we haven't and likely won't (my wife actually hates the area and it's her family that is still there). So, I'll be staying in my own area and enjoying what is is that I do like about it.

 

[DougBates]

From what I can see from my neighborhood in Glen NH is that the out-of-state cars are from people who either have vacation homes here or are people who are doing extended stays here to escape large cities.

It's a 3 hour drive to the Whites from Boston. The hotels and vacation rentals are all closed. These out-of-state people aren't here for day trips like they are in southern NH. They've relocated here.

 

[peakbagger]

I do not agree that's its just transplants and refugees, lots of folks routinely drive up for dayhikes to all the of 4ks from Mass and southern NH and still are. I ran into a solo hiker coming down Garfield on Saturday. He drove up from Rhode Island to take sunrise photos from Garfield and was planning to drive home when he got back to his car. He claims that he has been on similar hikes the last few weekends.

Its pretty predictable, the locals tend to get going hiking earlier in the AM with the tourists from outside the area starting and ending later.

 

[NHClimber]

We are hybrids who are relocating to NH. And ironically we are staying away from the trailheads and not doing any driving at all. Hopefully my avatar text will change from MA & NH to just NH soon. We still have MA plates for a few more years and don’t want to be seen going out to do anything non-essential. We’ve been here for two months - saw it coming. Came with supplies for several months so as to not tax local supplies. We are almost assuredly not the norm, not that that makes us better or worse.

 

[DougBates]

Sure, there are a few day trippers willing to drive 8 hours to do a hike. There always have been. But North Conway is nearly a ghost town compared to what it is usually like at this time of year. Traffic is light, even on blue bird Saturdays.

On the other hand, the vacation homes near me are unusually well occupied now, and with a lot of out-of-state plates.

 

[Mike P.]

Because I have cabin fever.... (I have no plans on heading out of CT this month, however, I'm talking the side of this argument, for the sake of a different POV, for those silly protesters who think states should be open. I'm curious if you got close to these people would they say you are not socially distancing?)

Since the USFS is funded with federal taxes and we in CT pay federal taxes, the United States Forest I'm thinking the National Forest should be closed. Are non-essential Federal employees working? If no, close it down. Rescues are local NH residents and NH employees, I get it. Until I'm whining for a rescue which will have to be a fractured hip or femur, I don't want or need a rescue. Limping & cussing myself for being stupid enough to hike in with broken bones my foot has been done before, hiking out with an injury allows me to curse myself and the other voices in my head who thought that was a good idea. (See that the Shining could have been written with Jack staying home, he didn't need to travel to the Overlook)

It depends where you live & how bad you want it, I'm sure I've got a couple of 100 peaks done as dayhikes, not sure about West Bond and Bond but probably everything else on a list. If I have a second home and have quarantined for two weeks and I pay NH taxes, those second home folks should have free reign. Katahdin is a day-hike from Eastern CT for the genetically stupid.

The distance from my home is not relative to my needing a rescue, Yes, I agree the more people you come in contact, the more likely you may come in contact with an asymptomatic carrier or if you are a carrier, you may come in contact with someone with a compromised immune system. I agree I can't hike on a Saturday with the idea of summiting a Presidential of likely any 4K without seeing someone, however, I did solo the Tri's a few years ago on a rainy miserable Wednesday and saw no other hikers.

 

[NHClimber]

Today would be a great day to be out on the trails. I bet you’d see no one else. LOL.

 

[Mike P.]

Waiting for the heavy stuff here so I can get wet by water destined for both the Thames and the Connecticut Rivers.

 

[Salty]

So after being alternately bemused and then shaking my head at some discussions over on Facebook, with comments to the effect of "they shut down the White Mtn. National Park," "they won't let us go into the woods now!" etc., a cursory tally of the normally open trailheads excluding the northern, Mahoosuc and Speckled regions of the WMG told me that 65% of the trailheads are open. Tons of hiking out there, but as mentioned, everyone just goes to the same !@&^%#$ trailheads instead.

Sure, there are a few day trippers willing to drive 8 hours to do a hike. There always have been. But North Conway is nearly a ghost town compared to what it is usually like at this time of year. Traffic is light, even on blue bird Saturdays.

On the other hand, the vacation homes near me are unusually well occupied now, and with a lot of out-of-state plates.

I respectfully disagree, there are way more than a few day trippers. My observation about traffic going north was clearly not just people going to their vacation homes. Even if it were, they should not be shuttling back and forth. That would be no different than day hiking. I can say on that same day coming back from work, there was plenty of traffic with red and white plates heading south. There are people with out of state plates validly here as NHClimber points out, but that is absolutely a minority, because there couldn't possibly be enough reasons to justify that many cars. And FWIW, I'd be upset seeing folks from Hillsborough and Rockingham counties, maybe even Merrimack co. heading to the mountains, they're just not as easy to spot, though given the traffic Saturday, I'm sure they were a-plenty as well.

IMNSHO, there's ***zero*** reason to head to the Whites now. There are woods, parks and road walks everywhere locally (not necessarily all 3). It's not a necessity, it's not a God-given right, it's a "want." Regardless of what you think about the virus, it won't kill you to spend a few weeks locally. I've only left the county three times to go to work, and the furthest hike I've done was 2 towns over. It's not exactly tough to do.

 

[hikerbrian]

Many people are willing to live in the city/MA because they know they can get out of the city when they need some fresh air. By and large, I think this is a good system and benefits everyone. So if you're wondering WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD ANYONE THINK IT'S OK TO LEAVE MA AND COME TO NH TO RECREATE??!!1!11!1, it's because of this expectation. Stay at home orders impact this population (myself included) considerably. Respectfully, folks suggesting 'it's not that hard to stay home for a few weeks' either don't recognize that we're talking about a lot longer than a few weeks, or they don't understand the impact in an urban/suburban environment. I live in a quiet section of town, within walking distance of Borderlands state park, which is a lovely spot for a mountain bike or trail run. Unfortunately, my road and the state park are absolutely mobbed right now - I don't feel safe going for a hike/run on nice days. Consequently, I have left my yard exactly 5 times in the past 6 weeks, and I expect this trend to continue for some time. But believe me, the need and desire to get out is growing. I understand the perspective of folks fighting 'stay at home' in one way or another. I'm not encouraging or even condoning, and I'm certainly not participating, but I do understand some fraction of this mindset. Maybe we could all practice a little bit of empathy and understanding? It's also worth recognizing that a treatment and/or vaccine is unlikely to come from a NH institute. Yet NH residents will rightfully expect to partake in the fruits of that labor. Again, by and large I think this is a good and fair system. It's not as simple as, 'You made your choice, now live with the consequences.' The rules of the game are evolving in real time, and COVID-19 may very well impact life decisions in the future. In this period of rapid evolution, maybe we can all practice a little bit of empathy.