More trail closings?

[DougBates]

The trailheads that are open are typically ones not controlled by the Forest Service. Lots of them are in our state parks. These trailhead closures are just going to make those trails more crowded. It's making the situation worse, not better. The state parks in the Whites are not gated like many of the other ones. There's no mechanism for crowd control like that which has been enacted in other state parks, such as Pawtuckaway, where day passes are sold online.

NH's Covid orders specifically allow and encourage outdoor exercise. Interstate travel is a right. These people are acting within their rights.

 

[JoshandBaron]

The only thing making the situation worse is people failing to be considerate of physical distancing and travelling unnecessarily. These closures wouldn't need to happen if that were being done. Rights or not, common sense needs to prevail if we want to get to the other side of this thing safely.

 

[dug]

Many people are willing to live in the city/MA because they know they can get out of the city when they need some fresh air. By and large, I think this is a good system and benefits everyone. So if you're wondering WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD ANYONE THINK IT'S OK TO LEAVE MA AND COME TO NH TO RECREATE??!!1!11!1, it's because of this expectation. Stay at home orders impact this population (myself included) considerably. Respectfully, folks suggesting 'it's not that hard to stay home for a few weeks' either don't recognize that we're talking about a lot longer than a few weeks, or they don't understand the impact in an urban/suburban environment. I live in a quiet section of town, within walking distance of Borderlands state park, which is a lovely spot for a mountain bike or trail run. Unfortunately, my road and the state park are absolutely mobbed right now - I don't feel safe going for a hike/run on nice days. Consequently, I have left my yard exactly 5 times in the past 6 weeks, and I expect this trend to continue for some time. But believe me, the need and desire to get out is growing. I understand the perspective of folks fighting 'stay at home' in one way or another. I'm not encouraging or even condoning, and I'm certainly not participating, but I do understand some fraction of this mindset. Maybe we could all practice a little bit of empathy and understanding? It's also worth recognizing that a treatment and/or vaccine is unlikely to come from a NH institute. Yet NH residents will rightfully expect to partake in the fruits of that labor. Again, by and large I think this is a good and fair system. It's not as simple as, 'You made your choice, now live with the consequences.' The rules of the game are evolving in real time, and COVID-19 may very well impact life decisions in the future. In this period of rapid evolution, maybe we can all practice a little bit of empathy.

Empathy is all fine, but an expectation that because people make life choices to live in an area, we should be empathetic to their plight because they can't get to the mountains? It's no more deserving of empathy than if they couldn't get to a hike because there was a storm that would've made the travel too dangerous; but those who lived in the mountains wouldn't have to deal with the dangerous travel.

I like to visit Boston in the spring, but couldn't. Why? I chose to live in an area where getting to Boston isn't as easy for me. That's a choice I made, to live next door to basically nothing but within an hour's drive to everything. Now, I can't visit any of them. I'm not asking, nor deserving, of anyone's empathy. It's a choice I made.

I'm not sure how relevant where the treatment is coming from? Are you saying NH should open their borders and access to facilities and the support staff because NH likely won't develop a vaccine and someone will hold it over their heads as retribution? My goodness, I hope we never get to that place in society.

 

[DayTrip]

All it takes is one person to lets say need roadside assistance and maybe that person is asymatic and passes it to a local who is then also asymatic who then passes it unknowingly to others at the grocery store or gas station and then the ball goes rolling down hill from there where our hospitals capacity/equipment are the equivalent of stale corn flakes to your filet and lobster of southern New England. That's why it's been disheartening to see people still coming up from far away, it's playing Russian roulette.

P.S. I lived in RI for 28 years and CT for 6 before moving up here. I always enjoyed my stale cornflakes

Hah! Corn Flakes suck! Curious what your favorite "haunts" were here in CT and RI when you were down here.

I get what you're saying 100%. I'm merely saying I get why people are going up, despite the obvious health concerns. All those WMNF trail heads aren't packed every weekend with out of state plates because the hiking where they live is just as awesome as the Whites. And I haven't seen many NH Tourism ads with slogans like "Hike NH. It's not Cumberland, RI but it ain't bad".

 

[skiguy]

Legally, there is the constant tension between private rights and a compelling public interest, so the right itself is not absolute. Someone who does something just because they 'the right' is pretty much the definition of an a**hole, IMO. Arguably, it's that type of person that "ruins it" for the rest of us.

Well said and I totally agree. Unfortunately much of the time “the right” and “the right thing to do” are not congruent.

 

[DayTrip]

From what I can see from my neighborhood in Glen NH is that the out-of-state cars are from people who either have vacation homes here or are people who are doing extended stays here to escape large cities.

It's a 3 hour drive to the Whites from Boston. The hotels and vacation rentals are all closed. These out-of-state people aren't here for day trips like they are in southern NH. They've relocated here.

As someone who drives 3-4 hours each way to NH, hikes all day and drives home another 3-4 hours that same day 25-35 times a year I would beg to differ with you. And if you think I'm an outlier I am not. I know and have met tons of people who do that very same thing. I'm sure some of those people have places up there but a great many do not.

 

[DayTrip]

Sure, there are a few day trippers willing to drive 8 hours to do a hike. There always have been. But North Conway is nearly a ghost town compared to what it is usually like at this time of year. Traffic is light, even on blue bird Saturdays.

On the other hand, the vacation homes near me are unusually well occupied now, and with a lot of out-of-state plates.

I don't think I'd be using the capacity of North Conway as a barometer of hiking volume in the Whites. As a Glen resident you know this is one of the slowest, if not the slowest time of the year up there. And the area offers quite a bit more than just hiking - shopping, restaurants, bars just to name a few - all of which are closed right now. I know tons of people who go to Conway that would cut off their right arm rather than walk around in the woods.

 

[CaptCaper]

My 2 cents. I belive a good part of the reason they closed those areas is because many of the hikers are from Massachusetts and there is a huge spike there. I saw they are in the top 4 states for this.

On a side note I had to go to Cape Cod Saturday and the parking areas at the Herring Run and West end train bridge was packed. Hundreds of cars and cars waiting for someone to leave. Not to mention busy as heck in Hyannis and surrounding beach towns. Biker gangs out hanging and talking together. On and on. No wonder there is a huge problem.

 

[hikerbrian]

dug, the life choices people make are based on current rules and regulations and reasonable foresight into how things might change in the future. Travel challenges due to snow are predictable and frequent, and it is reasonable to expect people to bake those challenges into their life choices. The WMNF has never closed due to pandemic. Challenges due to a snow storm vs COVID-19 are not the same thing. At all.

 

[DayTrip]

dug, the life choices people make are based on current rules and regulations and reasonable foresight into how things might change in the future. Travel challenges due to snow are predictable and frequent, and it is reasonable to expect people to bake those challenges into their life choices. The WMNF has never closed due to pandemic. Challenges due to a snow storm vs COVID-19 are not the same thing. At all.

You chose to choose to limit your choices to those parameters, which was a bad choice. You could have chosen to make other choices. So choose wisely... (KIDDING! I get your point - which is also my viewpoint - as well as his point of view. I think we're all just getting a little too tightly wrapped at this point)

 

[hikerbrian]

I think we're all just getting a little too tightly wrapped at this point)

Amen brother!!

 

[skiguy]

Many people are willing to live in the city/MA because they know they can get out of the city when they need some fresh air. By and large, I think this is a good system and benefits everyone. So if you're wondering WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD ANYONE THINK IT'S OK TO LEAVE MA AND COME TO NH TO RECREATE??!!1!11!1, it's because of this expectation. Stay at home orders impact this population (myself included) considerably. Respectfully, folks suggesting 'it's not that hard to stay home for a few weeks' either don't recognize that we're talking about a lot longer than a few weeks, or they don't understand the impact in an urban/suburban environment. I live in a quiet section of town, within walking distance of Borderlands state park, which is a lovely spot for a mountain bike or trail run. Unfortunately, my road and the state park are absolutely mobbed right now - I don't feel safe going for a hike/run on nice days. Consequently, I have left my yard exactly 5 times in the past 6 weeks, and I expect this trend to continue for some time. But believe me, the need and desire to get out is growing. I understand the perspective of folks fighting 'stay at home' in one way or another. I'm not encouraging or even condoning, and I'm certainly not participating, but I do understand some fraction of this mindset. Maybe we could all practice a little bit of empathy and understanding? It's also worth recognizing that a treatment and/or vaccine is unlikely to come from a NH institute. Yet NH residents will rightfully expect to partake in the fruits of that labor. Again, by and large I think this is a good and fair system. It's not as simple as, 'You made your choice, now live with the consequences.' The rules of the game are evolving in real time, and COVID-19 may very well impact life decisions in the future. In this period of rapid evolution, maybe we can all practice a little bit of empathy.

Empathy comes from many levels. If one is asking for empathy then should they not practice empathy themselves. I disagree with your line of thinking not to mention it is also selfish to state that a vaccine will probably not come from NH therefore NH residents shouldn’t rightfully expect to partake in the fruits of that labor. As a reminder Dartmouth Hitchcock has been at the fore front of research regarding Covid 19. I have been personally trying to take the lead from folks in Society that are trying to do their part as an individual to help the whole. I can see being cooped up in an urban area right now as being very difficult. At the same time I don’t think it is a time to rationalize or leverage the system to one’s own benefit when it potentially endangers others. Let’s remember other World Wars that have been fought people were ask to leave their homes, go over seas, lay in a muddy wet trench and fight for not only their own lives but others. So if we need to stay at home right now with a roof over our head, a log on the fire and not be able to go hiking we should all consider ourselves lucky.

 

[Mike P.]

Generally, five hours is about the most I'm willing to drive each way for a most of the day hike. From where I am in CT, it was four hours to Crawford Notch, around three hours and forty minutes to Franconia so I had many more days south of Crawford & the Cog. Most of the time I was looking at hiking the Carter or NP's I'd stay in Gorham or Twin Mountain, back when Twin Mountain had a hostel. At this point I'm more likely to stay with a friend who lives in the WMNF so we get an early start and just see the crowds on our way down.

 

[Peppersass]

I've read the last two days' posts. As a resident I recall out-of-state plates year round in the area and at trailheads. Do you see a marked increase in outside visitors for northern NH for this time of year? I know Tucks is closed but isn't this a big visitor time for that area when it's open? Or is awareness heightened due to the possibility outsiders might infect the area? Or both?

 

[Mike P.]

Empathy comes from many levels. If one is asking for empathy then should they not practice empathy themselves. I disagree with your line of thinking not to mention it is also selfish to state that a vaccine will probably not come from NH therefore NH residents shouldn’t rightfully expect to partake in the fruits of that labor. As a reminder Dartmouth Hitchcock has been at the fore front of research regarding Covid 19. I have been personally trying to take the lead from folks in Society that are trying to do their part as an individual to help the whole. I can see being cooped up in an urban area right now as being very difficult. At the same time I don’t think it is a time to rationalize or leverage the system to one’s own benefit when it potentially endangers others. Let’s remember other World Wars that have been fought people were ask to leave their homes, go over seas, lay in a muddy wet trench and fight for not only their own lives but others. So if we need to stay at home right now with a roof over our head, a log on the fire and not be able to go hiking we should all consider ourselves lucky.

We are a global society, technology, consumerism and aerospace have made the planet smaller today than the US was back when the Spanish Flu hit 102 years ago. With trying to tip toe across the political mine field, the state of the political landscape and many media outlets pandering to a certain viewpoint are thriving on splitting the society up. Us and them, MA & NH, Libtard or Trumpster news across social media and online is meant to capture your eye quickly so sensational headlines/banners with stories slanted to their views. Is one side driving that train? That's up to you to decide, make up your mind. We get discussion about ratings nightly not empathy for the increasing deaths.

 

[Remix]

From the past Saturday. There's little social distancing at other hiking spots in NH, people from hot zones or not. I will stick with objective data.

https://www.reddit.com/r/newhampshi...ts_a/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Opinion: NH will get pretty hurt if a second wave starts. Things have gone well so far and residents dont take the threat as seriously as they do in Connecticut. I had to do essential travel to drop off food and sanitizer on an elderly parents porch. In Connecticut, you are not allowed in a store if you dont have a mask. Sonehow a couple got in the checkout area of HD without masks....people on line were pissed, very pissed. I left my mask off at Dunkin donuts and they waved me by.

 

[hikerbrian]

If one is asking for empathy then should they not practice empathy themselves. I disagree with your line of thinking not to mention it is also selfish to state that a vaccine will probably not come from NH therefore NH residents shouldn’t rightfully expect to partake in the fruits of that labor.

Wait, what? That is not what I said. I said the opposite. You quoted me in your post! Ya know, that part where I wrote, "a treatment and/or vaccine is unlikely to come from a NH institute. Yet NH residents will rightfully expect to partake in the fruits of that labor." [emphasis added] And sorry no, Dartmouth Hitchcock, while a highly respected research hospital, is exceedingly unlikely to produce a vaccine or treatment for COVID-19. If NH were a vibrant biomedical research hub, I'd almost certainly live there.

"Leverag[ing] the system to one's own benefit" is a very different thing from empathizing. If you're preaching to me, you're preaching to the wrong guy.

 

[dug]

I'm going to preemptively apologize for this being out of line, but I'll put it more bluntly:

->I don't agree with the theory "because my backyard sucks I'm going to yours".

(And, I am aware the posters are NOT advocating for that personally)

 

[peakbagger]

The RT2 trailheads have been less active but then again the trails get less use in April. The RMC cabins have been closed which cuts down on overnight usage. I see few if any cars at Lowe's which is where most over nighters at the RMC facilities park. When I look at the mix of plates they tend to be a pretty good mix of various states. The Canadian border is closed to non essential traffic so no Canadian plates (the RMC cabins are very popular with our friends from North of the border). I see fewer cars during weekdays. My guess is fewer over nighters since there are no open overnight facilities.

Tucks is a different beast with different crowds. Its closer to a ski crowd than a hiking crowd. The Inferno Triathalon has been drawing increasing crowds of late The FS and AMC coordinated a closure 3 weeks ago of Tucks prior to the Inferno. Its closure has shut down a lot of the Conway/Bartlett/Glen/Jackson area April tourist spots as it draws a lot of casual tourists that normally do not hike except for the hike up to the ravine. AMC and the forest service have been very effective at shutting that area. There is usually a FS employee parked at the trailheads. The other big blow was the owners of Wildcat and Attitash shutting down during spring skiing, that is really what nailed the Conway tourist traffic. As the hiking businesses are occasionally reminded by the general tourism business, hikers are low budget tourists, mostly day trippers with coolers full of beer they brought from Mass, hikers are better than nothing but the businesses will take skiers or ATV folks over hikers anytime as they are higher revenue.

 

[skiguy]

Wait, what? That is not what I said. I said the opposite. You quoted me in your post! Ya know, that part where I wrote, "a treatment and/or vaccine is unlikely to come from a NH institute. Yet NH residents will rightfully expect to partake in the fruits of that labor." [emphasis added] And sorry no, Dartmouth Hitchcock, while a highly respected research hospital, is exceedingly unlikely to produce a vaccine or treatment for COVID-19. If NH were a vibrant biomedical research hub, I'd almost certainly live there.

"Leverag[ing] the system to one's own benefit" is a very different thing from empathizing. If you're preaching to me, you're preaching to the wrong guy.

I stand corrected and apologize for misinterpreting your comments on rights. I do think you might be missing my comment on Dartmouth. As little as it may seem to you they are making a contribution. Which speaks to my comment about individuals helping the whole.