Mount Madison Rescue

[BEUCS]

Age = Experience?

I noticed that a couple of posters have jumped on these individuals based on the argument that they were "old enough to know better", or that there age somehow prepared them to know what they were getting into. Based on that argument I should now be ready to climb Mount Everest, Yes!!!
P.S. Is the hut on Everest still open?

 

[Mike P.]

IMO, there was a flaw somewhere in the planning process, either:

1.) planning a trip over their heads,
2.)not having a turnaround time that would get them back to their cars or their destination, (I don't have a feeling that the hut was the original goal but the we need shelter, response when weather was more than expected), within their comfort range.
3.) not planning for it taking longer than expected to reach their destination & having warmer gear for evening (or winter conditions) and lights.
4.) most likely a combination of these. I'm confident I can get down Valley Way with a working headlamp, but I'm less confident on a trail I don't know, especially if above treeline, say the Watson Path or on a headwall, like King Ravine.

On the earlier reckless driving points, that is still within the view of the other party, you should have known your driving was putting people at risk of harm, if you take the stereotypical 17 year old (or any CT or Easter MA driver ) and an 84 year old driver, & they will think the 85 MPH or 45 MPH speed on the highway will cause an accident & get someone killed.

Dave M made a comment early on I wanted to comment on too, if they thought their plan was too easy to mess up, that would be the first Mistake. On my recent Catskill trip on trails I’d never been on, when I got to the 2nd trail junction, I did not bother reading the sign. I’d looked at the map several times the week before. I knew where I was going.

About a 1/3 of a mile up the trail I thought I was ascending too quickly for that section from what I saw on the map, doubt crept in & pulled the map out & saw that I had forgotten that 2nd junction & had indeed took the wrong trail; I backtracked & lost about ½ an hour & added 2/3’s of a mile to my day. Other decisions I could have made though might have started a bad chain of events, I did have a great day though weather wise.

Whether, it’s hiking, driving, or any other activity, if you are overconfident & don’t pay attention to the details, you’ve already made one mistake that 999/1000 times won’t come back to haunt you.

Now I’ll try & learn from my mistake of not paying attention as I plan a trip over Franconia Ridge (have walked some of these trails 10 times) & a the Presidentials event over trails & peaks I’ve been on anywhere from 3-12 times.

Hopefully we will get more details so we can learn from their adventure (or mistakes, pick your own word) discussing the trip so we can learn from it is good, bashing them for being young, or dumb or being a flatlander or weak is wrong




We don't know what trails they were on, IMO it does not feel like a Valley Way up & down trip

 

[clg898]

Yeah, and what if they tell the story as if it was ''so cool'' that the others go out there and do the same stupid mistake ?

I'm sorry, but you must have a really low opinion of three people you've never met to assume that after a traumatic, embarrassing, near-death experience they would be bragging about the ordeal.

I can't stand how judgemental some people become every time there is a rescue. Nobody knows the circumstances with any degree of certainty. It could very easily be one of us needing to be rescued one day.

They got in over their heads and fortunately, they had enough smarts to realize it and call for help. Maybe they didn't do their homework, maybe they didn't know what they were doing, but I'm not ready to pass judgement on three people I've never met based on a 300 word article written by a journalist I've never met.

 

[dreamstream]

Signs are still up at other trail heads stating that Green Leaf and Gail Head are "closed". Not saying this is the case in this instance, but if the signs say "closed" and they are found to be open as they are, the signs saying other higher huts are closed could be ignored by the same logic.

 

[JeffAndrews]

According to the paper, the rescuers didn't reach them until 4:30 AM, which is pretty close to when morning twilight would begin at this time of year. At which point the" "hikers" probably could have managed to hike out on their own. So the "hikers" apparently did have what they needed to survive a night out in the mountains. I'm sure they weren't comfortable, but they did manage to hike out after their "ordeal".

It seems sort of a waste that people had to hike through the dead of night to rescue them, but I have to say that I am always glad to know that there are brave souls willing and able to rescue those in need and even those who maybe aren't so much in need.

As far as a "cool adventure", by the time they got to the trail head it would have been past dawn, and they must have felt pretty silly being escorted out of the woods in broad daylight. I don't think they will be able to put too positive a spin on that one.

 

[chuck]

If the SAR people made the decision to go up ... then there must have been a good reason. My guess no or dead lights or someone in the group giving up and weather. Poor planning on the hiking group another good job by SAR people.

 

[timmus]

I'm sorry, but you must have a really low opinion of three people you've never met to assume that after a traumatic, embarrassing, near-death experience they would be bragging about the ordeal.

Let me explain. After all traumatic, embarrassing, near-death experience I had (not a lot, but still), I usually laughed at it as soon as it was over. Saying : oh, just another story to tell...And make a funny story out of it.

And I imagine that some 22 years old guys, might not go out telling their friends that they pee in their pants and cried all night, scared to death, waiting for rescuers.

And just for my defense, I started my original post saying : ''WHAT IF''. I don't have any opinion of them, I don't know them.

 

[sleeping bear]

According to the paper, the rescuers didn't reach them until 4:30 AM, which is pretty close to when morning twilight would begin at this time of year. At which point the" "hikers" probably could have managed to hike out on their own. So the "hikers" apparently did have what they needed to survive a night out in the mountains. I'm sure they weren't comfortable, but they did manage to hike out after their "ordeal".

It seems sort of a waste that people had to hike through the dead of night to rescue them, but I have to say that I am always glad to know that there are brave souls willing and able to rescue those in need and even those who maybe aren't so much in need.

Agreed. Sleeping bags, chintzy 40 degree or whatever, probably would have been (and were??) enough to keep them alive throughout the night.

Could they have survived the night? Most likely, they pretty much did anyway.
Would it have been fun? Probably not.
Would it have been uncomfortable? No doubt!
Scary? yes.
Lesson learned? You bet!

There are certainly sound reasons to carry a cell phone when you hike, and there are plenty of people who do it. But it seems to me that many of those people jump the gun because they've got it and don't figure out how to get themselves out of the situation. The cell phone is the staples "easy button" of the woods. It's kinda sad. Sure, it's great they are out and fine, but chances are they would have been out and fine anyway.

 

[chipc]

And I imagine that some 22 years old *guys* might not go out telling their friends that they pee in their pants and cried all night, scared to death, waiting for rescuers.

It's easy to assume that 3 young 20-something *males* got stuck a couple of miles up on Valley Way and called for help on their cell phone. My hunch is that's there more to it than that - SAR units usually doesn't respond unless there are actual injuries or imminent risk of injuries.

From the article:
"The hikers were identified as Prentice Tracy, 22, and Tess Cormier, 20, both of Canterbury, Conn.; and and Patrick Cartier, 19, of Moosup, Conn."

Somewhere in this thread they become 3 males. From the names I am guessing that one might be female. Just to point out we have very few facts on this story. I am glad they are safe and its good to discuss what they should or should not have done; however I for one would like to learn more of the story before passing judgment.

 

[Dugan]

Just to point out we have very few facts on this story.

Excellent point. Not only are important pieces likely missing, just because it is published in a newspaper doesn't mean what is there is necessarily true.

A friend of mine lost a small barn to a fire last summer. One paper reported that three cows died in the fire. He's never had cows on the property, nor was the barn big enough to house three cows, even if he had had the cows. And since he built the barn, he knows for sure there was never a cow anywhere near it.

Not even facts from the big news outlets should be automatically believed: Several years ago CNN reported a story as fact in which cell phone batteries were recharged by putting them in the snow. Uh-huh. As a devout winter enthusiast, I'd love to know what kind of batteries these are!

A judgement based on incomplete and possibly incorrect facts is worse than no judgement at all.

 

[timmus]

From the article:
"The hikers were identified as Prentice Tracy, 22, and Tess Cormier, 20, both of Canterbury, Conn.; and and Patrick Cartier, 19, of Moosup, Conn."

Somewhere in this thread they become 3 males. From the names I am guessing that one might be female. Just to point out we have very few facts on this story. I am glad they are safe and its good to discuss what they should or should not have done; however I for one would like to learn more of the story before passing judgment.

OK, we all know that it's OK for a girl to be scared in the woods at night, and wants to call the rescuers, so let's leave her out of there.



I think that whatever comes out of the news is modified so it makes a good story to tell. From that point of view, I believe this thread should follow the same direction, and exist only if it remain entertaining.

 

[Mike P.]

It's hard to say how people will re-tell their own story. It will probably change as they age. A couple from my archive of stupid...

A hike I did early on in my NH hiking experience resulted in at least two of us having mild hypothermia, only the fact that we had an evening appointment we had to keep made us turn around when we did, that's not how we told teh story the first year.

My Katahdin from CT & back in a less than 24 hours trip, I'm still alive, but it's not so much a hiking feat than a driving feat, worth bragging about or really stupid? Unplanned so after a day of work & volleyball, driving 8 hours hiking & then driving 8 more hours is dumb. Had I slept well before I started that would have been smarter.

Non-hiking, how many times did I close a bar & drive home, does that make me a good drunk driver? No just lucky, I need to beat into my kids that me & their uncles have used all of their good luck up, sometimes the guy who tries this once has an accident. sometimes people who make many errors in judgment hiking get away with it, sometimes the first time you do it, you end up calling SAR.

I've read a couple of trip reports in my time that would back up Timmus' concerns but some also where they realized their shortcomings (or shortsightedness) most of the time we don't hear anything though.

 

[dr_wu002]

Excellent point. Not only are important pieces likely missing, just because it is published in a newspaper doesn't mean what is there is necessarily true.

Maybe this whole thing is an elaborate hoax? Remember that girl last year in the news who kidnapped herself right before her wedding (in Florida?) and ran to Texas? Maybe the whole thing was a ploy to get their 15 minutes of fame. They were probably up there sipping champagne and eating bon bons and caviar when SAR came to get them!

-Dr. Wu

 

[TDawg]

Lets be glad it's not like this in the Northeast!!

I was going to start a new thread for this article, but didn't know what forum it fits in, and it fits well into this discussion.

Lets be glad we have at least the hope of being rescued on our mountains, unlike this poor fellow on Everestleft to die.

Sir Edmund is pretty dissappointed in the climbers these days.

P.S. - I realize the circumstances for rescue on Everest are WAY different than the NE to say the least (altitude, distance from civilization,etc..).

 

[Jeff-B]

EASY BUTTON! Call 911, "that was easy!"

Agreed. Sleeping bags, chintzy 40 degree or whatever, probably would have been (and were??) enough to keep them alive throughout the night.

Could they have survived the night? Most likely, they pretty much did anyway.
Would it have been fun? Probably not.
Would it have been uncomfortable? No doubt!
Scary? yes.
Lesson learned? You bet!

There are certainly sound reasons to carry a cell phone when you hike, and there are plenty of people who do it. But it seems to me that many of those people jump the gun because they've got it and don't figure out how to get themselves out of the situation. The cell phone is the staples "easy button" of the woods. It's kinda sad. Sure, it's great they are out and fine, but chances are they would have been out and fine anyway.

Easy Button!

I think you nailed it on the head with this comment.
When I was 17 -BCP (Before Cell Phones) with friends same age, deep in Pemi region, a huge rainstorm/windstorm destroyed my camp, broke my tent poles. I spent the night going out for branches to construct new poles while the wind ripped violently and shredded my tarp.
Hypo "whatever its called" was indeed a serious situation unfolding.
We survived using skills needed to survive on the spot!
Next morning we hiked out in the storm.
And this IS a story retold with "that was radical" ..."remmember whens"


When you are indeed alone, and can expect no help, you think of ways to survive and make it out, or die trying.

Cell phones are used so much these days, when they really could have been avoided in this case.

Jeff

 

[jade]

Dr Wuwu....I know you're a mountain steward and all, but that 'girl' is/was a woman and she had/has problems...

TDawg....thank you for posting the Everest report...I had mentioned it in one of my earlier posts on this thread....how very sad....

Timmus...never mind, you'll just run away scared and crying!

...Jade

 

[timmus]

Easy Button!


Cell phones are used so much these days, when they really could have been avoided in this case.

Jeff

Easy Button , by Jul.

 

[MadRiver]

Thank God they didn’t have unleashed dogs with them or this could get ugly.

 

[timmus]

Thank God they didn’t have unleashed dogs with them or this could get ugly.

Easy Button, improved

Thanks for the idea.

Jul

 

[MadRiver]

My pleasure