MSR Whisperlite Stove

[dug]

Coleman used to make a stove with an integrated fuel bottle underneath it. Worked like a Whisperlite.

Let's just say no matter what anyone does, test your gear out before you are in the field. Because, oh, hypothetical situation, say it's Veteran's day weekend circa 1993, and you are on top of Zeacliff for your first solo overnight. It's drizzling, and it's cold. You have camped out deep in the woods, but wanted a nice breakfast from the top of the cliffs. Well, no view (again, hypothetically) but it doesn't matter. It's peaceful, so you pump the crap out of your stove and open 'er up. Light that bad boy up and watcher go!

It's pretty neat watching an expanding gas fire on top of the cliffs as you ponder what your next move is. You eventually put it out, but your stove is ruined. You have a two-day hike ahead of you, with no means to make a hot meal. You don't own a cell phone because, well, while they were in existence I didn't own one and they weren't something you could carry with you anyway. So, it's a long walk back out to the nearest phone to get picked up; two days early and full of shame....

Since, I've never had a problem with the stoves.

 

[skiguy]

Coleman used to make a stove with an integrated fuel bottle underneath it. Worked like a Whisperlite.

Let's just say no matter what anyone does, test your gear out before you are in the field. Because, oh, hypothetical situation, say it's Veteran's day weekend circa 1993, and you are on top of Zeacliff for your first solo overnight. It's drizzling, and it's cold. You have camped out deep in the woods, but wanted a nice breakfast from the top of the cliffs. Well, no view (again, hypothetically) but it doesn't matter. It's peaceful, so you pump the crap out of your stove and open 'er up. Light that bad boy up and watcher go!

It's pretty neat watching an expanding gas fire on top of the cliffs as you ponder what your next move is. You eventually put it out, but your stove is ruined. You have a two-day hike ahead of you, with no means to make a hot meal. You don't own a cell phone because, well, while they were in existence I didn't own one and they weren't something you could carry with you anyway. So, it's a long walk back out to the nearest phone to get picked up; two days early and full of shame....

Since, I've never had a problem with the stoves.

The Peak One was the lamest stove I ever owned too.

 

[jfb]

It's peaceful, so you pump the crap out of your stove and open 'er up. Light that bad boy up and watcher go!

I have a Coleman Feather 442 , which is probably similar to the stove you're describing. It's not the best stove for someone who is not familiar with liquid fuel stoves. However, in cold weather, I prime it before lighting and it works pretty well.

 

[peakbagger]

Of course there is always the dreaded priming paste (I.E napalm in a tube)

 

[DayTrip]

Calling Doug Paul!

Hah! I think he was actually one of the people who answered that question last year. Never ceases to amaze me the depth of knowledge on this forum for virtually every topic discussed. Awesome stuff to a relative imbecile like myself.

 

[DayTrip]

I'm known for having strong opinions on equipment. I hold no stronger opinion than my devotion to the Svea 123 for winter camping.

IMO, equipment is about trade-offs. The thing about the Svea is that it will always light for me and has never had any mechanical failure in over 30 years of regular use. When the stove was just over 30 years old, I finally replaced the wick. I've also replaced the filler cap/safety valve a few times. That's the sum total of the maintenance I've had to do on this stove. There are next to no moving parts and really nothing on the stove to fail.

The cost of this reliability is knowledge and practice. The priming ritual isn't hard but it does take experience. It would be a lousy stove to the kind of person who wants a take it out of the box and just have it work simply type of experience.

I don't worry about parts on my Svea busting while in the field. I don't' worry about it being too cold for the stove to operate. I don't worry about canisters loosing fuel with no explaination (We had this happen on a group trip and luckily I had my Svea and I was able to cook for a group of 10 with it, although we did need to bum some fuel for the last night).

One of my kids got involved in an outdoor leadership program in college and she got a new Svea from me. My son plans on doing the same thing and I'll give him the same stove. They both have learned how to use them on family trips. If my kids are going to be in the woods in the cold, I want them to have a stove that i know will work.

If you put a gun to my head and told me I had to winter camp in New England without a white gas stove, I would give serious consideration to the full sized Trangia system with the integrated pot, stand and windscreen. Alcohol stoves get heavy in cold weather due to fuel consumption, but they are utterly fail proof too. They are even more reliable than the Svea and I trust my life to my Svea.

Nothing wrong with that. Pretty compelling endorsement. I did some Googling on the stove online and it doesn't appear you are alone in your assessment. Do you have a photo of your set up? Someone in another comment mentioned an ancient how-to video you had made for how to use the stove. Is that on YouTube or still online somewhere? Would be curious to watch it. I'm willing to sacrifice some speed for reliability.

 

[jfb]

I did some Googling on the stove online and it doesn't appear you are alone in your assessment. .

The only drawback I see in the Svea is that the fuel tank is pretty small. Otherwise, it's a good stove.

 

[DayTrip]

So, at Kinsman shelter last winter, a bunch of us were melting snow; it was warmish, maybe 20 degrees, and breezy. Right next to each other were several Whisperlites, my Reactor, and a Svea. This was actually the first time I'd seen a Svea. I was intrigued as I've heard so many positive comments on this forum. The guy using it said he'd had it for a long time and really liked the stove. Anyway, if I were to generalize my observations, here they are:

My Reactor was up and running the fastest, and I think I had a liter boiling before anyone else had started actually melting snow. This is not an exaggeration. Another party was unable to get their Whisperlite going, and I didn't have time to figure out why as I was keeping tabs on my own group. We supplied them with hot water.

Once up and running, the Whisperlites were very low maintenance. People just added more snow and that was that. The Reactor required me to change out the bath water every few liters. This was easy under the conditions. The Svea, like the Whisperlites, just kept on keeping on with little requisite fussing.

By far, the Reactor turned snow to boiling water the fastest. It had to have been close to twice as fast as the Whisperlites. The Svea was the surprise: it was very slow. Maybe this was because of the wind? There was a substantial breeze blowing through, and without a windscreen the Svea seemed to really suffer. In fact, we ended up supplying the Svea user with water as well.

I estimated that I got about 8-10 L of boiling water out of my 8 oz fuel canister. Its heat output seemed pretty constant right until it went out quite suddenly (and the canister was empty).

So Svea users, can you comment on wind susceptibility, and speed in general in comparison to the other stoves? The stove definitely worked and didn't require a lot of fussing, but it was slow. Like, REALLY slow.

The SVEA site says boil time for 1L of water is approx 7 minutes depending on conditions/temps/altitude. That is pretty slow. My JetBoil is around 4 min if I remember right.

 

[DayTrip]

The only drawback I see in the Svea is that the fuel tank is pretty small. Otherwise, it's a good stove.

Site says max burn of 50 min with 120 ml of fuel (so about 4 ounces, which is indeed not a lot). So I guess carrying a separate fuel canister is probably mandatory for Winter use.

 

[sierra]

I have a Coleman Feather 442 , which is probably similar to the stove you're describing. It's not the best stove for someone who is not familiar with liquid fuel stoves. However, in cold weather, I prime it before lighting and it works pretty well.

I had one of those!!! It was ok, blowtorched a few times on me. Once, I threw mine off the deck of a bunkhouse at Carter Notch. I went to the 8R, much better.

 

[jfb]

I had one of those!!! It was ok, blowtorched a few times on me. Once, I threw mine off the deck of a bunkhouse at Carter Notch. I went to the 8R, much better.

I've used a 8R, found it too loud and too hard to simmer.

 

[DougPaul]

I do. I actually asked that question last year in my original set of stove questions. I wondered how my stove would not work in the 20's when they had in the Himalayas. The consensus here seemed to be that the temps in their tents were near freezing and the lower air pressure somehow played a role.

The key difference is the lower air pressure at altitude. It allows a canister to have a positive pressure at lower temps than at lower altitudes.

Doug

 

[dave.m]

The key difference is the lower air pressure at altitude. It allows a canister to have a positive pressure at lower temps than at lower altitudes.

Doug

This is why I prefer white gas (or possibly alcohol) for extreme cold temps in New England.

 

[Tom_Murphy]

Nothing wrong with that. Pretty compelling endorsement. I did some Googling on the stove online and it doesn't appear you are alone in your assessment. Do you have a photo of your set up? Someone in another comment mentioned an ancient how-to video you had made for how to use the stove. Is that on YouTube or still online somewhere? Would be curious to watch it. I'm willing to sacrifice some speed for reliability.

I tried to find Dave's old comcast.net page and couldn't. His instructions were a 3,017-word love letter to the SVEA.

PM me a email and I will send you the text I copied and pasted into a Word document back in 2004.

 

[DayTrip]

I tried to find Dave's old comcast.net page and couldn't. His instructions were a 3,017-word love letter to the SVEA.

PM me a email and I will send you the text I copied and pasted into a Word document back in 2004.

Thanks for that but I did a search on YouTube and found several videos on the stove and its operation so I think I get the gist of how it works.

 

[peakbagger]

I was rereading a section of Where You Will Find Me about the Kate Matrosova attempted rescue. If you have the book you may want to reread page 122 with respect to the problems the rescue team had with a Jetboil. It does not appear to be defective equipment, they just exceeded the capability of the stove and fuel.

My guess is the larger fuel bottle that got them out of trouble could have been the cure for a couple of reasons, none of which I would depend on
1. The larger canister may have been located in the rangers pack closer to his body than the original canister. As I and others have discovered just a little bit of warmth on the surface of the fuel canister will make a big difference in flame output. Many folks tend to carry stoves in outer pockets so they are readily accessible which is the worse possible location in cold conditions. The spare larger bottle was in someone else's pack and may have been up against his back.

2. A larger bottle will lose heat when exposed to the cold ambient conditions slightly slower than a small bottle would when exposed to wind. If it was warmer inside the pack, it would retain that heat for just a short time longer.

3. The larger canister may have been newer. In cold conditions the most volatile portions of the fuel blend will boil off preferentially faster. This is good when the canister is new, not so good when its not full as what remains is fuel that vaporizes at higher temps. I have personally witnessed this on my early Spring AT sections as the tank gets emptier the working temp increases. If I need a high flame in cold temps I end up hold my bare hands on the tank to get more flame.

4. In cold conditions the tank volume makes a difference in the amount of fuel that can be vaporized at low temps.

 

[DayTrip]

I was rereading a section of Where You Will Find Me about the Kate Matrosova attempted rescue. If you have the book you may want to reread page 122 with respect to the problems the rescue team had with a Jetboil. It does not appear to be defective equipment, they just exceeded the capability of the stove and fuel.

My guess is the larger fuel bottle that got them out of trouble could have been the cure for a couple of reasons, none of which I would depend on
1. The larger canister may have been located in the rangers pack closer to his body than the original canister. As I and others have discovered just a little bit of warmth on the surface of the fuel canister will make a big difference in flame output. Many folks tend to carry stoves in outer pockets so they are readily accessible which is the worse possible location in cold conditions. The spare larger bottle was in someone else's pack and may have been up against his back.

2. A larger bottle will lose heat when exposed to the cold ambient conditions slightly slower than a small bottle would when exposed to wind. If it was warmer inside the pack, it would retain that heat for just a short time longer.

3. The larger canister may have been newer. In cold conditions the most volatile portions of the fuel blend will boil off preferentially faster. This is good when the canister is new, not so good when its not full as what remains is fuel that vaporizes at higher temps. I have personally witnessed this on my early Spring AT sections as the tank gets emptier the working temp increases. If I need a high flame in cold temps I end up hold my bare hands on the tank to get more flame.

4. In cold conditions the tank volume makes a difference in the amount of fuel that can be vaporized at low temps.

Thanks. I'll check it out. I always meant to go back and reread that book. With the shorter days upon us I guess now would be as good a time as any.

 

[DayTrip]

So I'm still floundering around with this decision and research on the SVEA has brought me to another option: the Optimus Nova. As far as I can tell. it appears to be a better made and better designed version of the Whisperlite (and it's price seems to reflect that). Not sure if anyone owns one here or not but if so I had some follow up questions on that particular stove based on several reviews I watched:

1) The Nova appears to be all metal construction for the fuel valves, regulator, etc which for durability is a big plus over the much plastic Whisperlite I would think. However, is that a bad thing in terms of performance when it is cold (i.e. warming up all the metal) or is that irrelevant because of the design?

2) The Nova's regulator is attached at the burner as opposed to the tank on the Whisperlite. This seems to create far superior flame control in YouTube videos I watched. One reviewer pointed out though that because of that when you turn the stove off the remaining fuel in the line can't burn out/evaporate. Is simply holding the line up and letting it drain back into the tank sufficient to get gas out or will it be dripping out - in particular once it is back in my backpack? Not sure if fuel lines on these things have some sort of valve mechanism like the hose on a hydration bladder that close the line when it is unplugged or if they are just open.

3) I saw mention of the fuel filters on Optimus stoves "gumming up" versus other brands. One reviewer removed the filter altogether on his stove. Can the filter be field cleaned with a brush or something or should I just remove if I'm using higher quality gas? (The Optimus stoves apparently have an all-in-one nozzle in the burner so you can burn whatever you want it without any tinkering - which I really like. Efficiency varies by fuel type as a result but it appeared to work best on white gas and that is what I'd be using virtually all the time).

There are some other things I also like such as the pot stand design, the 15 oz fuel bottle which is a nice happy-medium versus deciding between 10 and 20 oz, etc. The pre-Black Friday 20% off coupons have been rolling into my email box so it's time for me to make a decision. Any info on the Nova will help with the final decision.

 

[buddy]

I have used svea, loved it for boiling water, whisper lites, to finicky and prone to malfunction and what I like best for all seasons is my coleman peak one. It is a bit on the heavy side but I have found it to be bomb proof, has excellent high end output and can maintain a very low flame for simmering. It will usually just lite with no priming. The tank is large enough for a couple of days of camping if you are needing just hot water to prepare food. If you are actually cooking, melting snow for water or thawing precooked frozen seal a meals then a extra fuel bottle is required. I will generally sacrifice lite weight for comfort and convenience because most of my hiking and camping involves setting up a base camp then peak bagging from there so I only carry the extra stove and fuel weight to base camp. I rarely carry a stove and fuel on day hikes from base camp. I understand that if you are carrying all your gear every day every ounce counts and the peak one may be too heavy unless fuel and stove are being shared.

 

[Tom_Murphy]

So I'm still floundering around with this decision and research on the SVEA has brought me to another option: the Optimus Nova.

In addition to my SVEA I also have the Primus OmniFuel which I choose over the NOVA and Whisperlite. I have too many stoves...

https://www.primus.eu/shop/primus-omnifuel-P328989/

https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2011/03/stove-of-week-optimus-nova.html

https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2011/10/stove-of-week-msr-whisperlite-universal.html

https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2011/03/stove-of-week-primus-omnifuel.html

https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2012/03/primus-omnifuel-vs-msr-whisperlite.html