N.E. Clean Power Connect in Maine - Should we care ?

[peakbagger]

It comes down to ROI, Hydro Quebec and partners were looking at Billions in long term revenue for at one time was a 100 million dollar investment in CPC. Despite using transmission corridors paid for by ratepayers for much of the project , the return to the state of Maine was far less, basically a rounding error when looking at a revenue stream in the Billions. It was also a referendum against CMP. They are spending a lot of money trying to put "lipstick on the pig", but CMP seems to have worn out its welcome since they sold out to Energy East 30 years ago. Prior to the sale CMP was a "widows and orphans stock" safe but boring long term low yield investment. The power plants including the hydros were quickly stripped and sold to FPL (now Next Era) after it was bought out by Energy East. Thus CMP went back to a boring publicly regulated revenue stream. No doubt if CPC gets built the current owner Avangrid will split off CPC completely from CMP and sell off the boring distribution business. A good indication of how much the project was smelly that the popular former Maine governor Baldacci who was on the Avangrid board of directors was suspiciously quiet.

 

[Mac]

Maybe Mass will reconsider this one https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova...s-energy-northern-pass-transmission-1.4504425. All underwater from New Brunswick to Mass. Similar to the Lake Champlain project, except much longer distance.

 

[TCD]

Maybe Mass will get smart, and build a couple highly efficient low emission nat gas plants in Mass, instead of trying to hack electric lines through the northern New England forest so they can claim to be "green."

 

[NHClimber]

Or just go nuclear and get over the irrational fear.

 

[peakbagger]

Maybe Mass will get smart, and build a couple highly efficient low emission nat gas plants in Mass, instead of trying to hack electric lines through the northern New England forest so they can claim to be "green."

Unfortunately the most efficient combined cycle natural gas plants are no longer carbon free enough to pass muster for reducing global warming. When they replace coal or fuel oil plants they are great carbon reduction option but to meet climate goals even the most efficient gas plants have to switch over to "green natural gas" or "green" hydrogen. Green natural gas is basically methane that is already escaping to the atmosphere which is collected and then combusted to CO2 doing useful work like generated power along the way. Methane has far more climate impact per pound than CO2. The big supplier of GNG is methane from landfills. Green Hydrogen is hydrogen produced from non fossil sources. The gas turbine industry is quickly developing the capability to burn 100% GNG but hydrogen burns hotter so NOx production is an issue.

There are attempts to build and install new small nuclear power plants. They are based on "inherently safe" designs where the reaction will shut down if the support systems stop working. many are fueled once and then returned to the factory to be refueled. Wyoming is looking at repowering former coal plants with small nukes. The Russians are actively building and selling nuclear power plants on a barge and the Chinese are building next generation large nuclear reactors based on US designs plus developing R&D originally developed by the US and then abandoned. The Indians are also still working on thorium based reactors. Its likely that the "third world" will embrace nuclear for baseload power long before the US jumps on the bandwagon. IMO, until the US gets seriously of deploying offshore wind with storage that new nuclear in the eastern US is not needed. There really is no finance agency that will go near nuclear in the US given the recent project failures.

 

[maineguy]

A good indication of how much the project was smelly that the popular former Maine governor Baldacci who was on the Avangrid board of directors was suspiciously quiet.

As far as I can tell, he is still on the board of directors. It's amazing what a 6 figure salary for attending meetings plus stock options can do to your vocal chords.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Let's try and keep this thread open by following these guidelines:

Post factual data and/or links to the source (remembering not to post more than a teaser paragraph of content you do not own)
If that data pertains to the preservation or destruction of the backcountry, so much the better
Refrain from arbitrary political jabs

Tim

 

[peakbagger]

Interesting graphic on how every town in Maine voted https://bangordailynews.com/2021/11...ne-town-voted-in-the-cmp-corridor-referendum/ I wish it was larger but its pretty good indication that there was not much support for the project statewide. The support in Aroostock county and eastern Maine was intersting as those areas are served by Emera a different utility with no stake in CPC (note they are not held with much more regard than CMP). Both areas tend to vote very conservative and were targeted with advertising trying to establish a tenuous link between a yes vote (to shut down the project) and repealing gun rights laws.

As expected CPC is continuing construction and "is confident that the vote was illegal and unconstitutional" has filed a lawsuit to invalidate the results and the other side has sued to immediate stop construction.

 

[peakbagger]

Construction halted (it had been ongoing after the referendum loss). It also happens to be winter conditions. My guess is CPC will be adding up the costs spent to date and expect that they will be requesting reimbursement.

 

[Puma concolor]

Responsive to the OP … I neither care nor don’t care.

Laid eyes on the Kibby Mountain wind project for the first time last weekend. Based on the hyperbole, I was expecting to be following wind mills from trailhead to summit as if they were cairns. Instead, I saw exactly one during the hike itself … and that was at the trailhead. Plenty of others were visible from paved Route 27 but you’re pretty much in the front-country at that point.

No harm. No foul.

[

 

[skiguy]

It’s all really about the hiking whether it has anything to do with it or not.

 

[Puma concolor]

^^^^^

Yes this is correct. Also known as “stay in your lane.”

If you use an internal combustion engine and travel hundreds of miles on interstate highways, secondary roads and logging roads to reach far flung trailheads near the Maine/Quebec border only to finish those last few miles on foot, then you are fully on board with the current state of things in the world.

Interesting thread though.

 

[Mac]

^^^^^

Yes this is correct. Also known as “stay in your lane.”

If you use an internal combustion engine and travel hundreds of miles on interstate highways, secondary roads and logging roads to reach far flung trailheads near the Maine/Quebec border only to finish those last few miles on foot, then you are fully on board with the current state of things in the world.

Interesting thread though.

In defence of Peakbagger, he does live where he hikes. I do agree that the vast majority of people think that we should do more to reduce GHG emissions, unless it affects them directly (then NIMBY takes over).

 

[Puma concolor]

^^^^

Again, not disagreeing and no slight towards peakbagger was intended.

Based on my quick read of three and a half years worth of thread with lots of broken links, this was basically a project that would have generated clean Canadian-produced hydroelectric energy to New England via 145 miles of new transmission lines. Net effect would have been less dependence on oil based energy. Yet it was defeated - at least in part - due to local (statewide) environmental objection to the scar it would have left along the corridor. This in a state where logging is one of the chief industries. If not the chief industry.

As to my statement about traveling hundreds of miles to get to the area, that was more focused on myself and those like me who come from far away to hike some of these obscure NEHH and NEFF peaks along the border area. Would be highly hypocritical of us to object to something that makes sense on every level other than aesthetics.

 

[peakbagger]

Yes most of my weekly hiking is quite close by. My new Toyota has 40 to 45 miles electric range and the game will be to see how many hikes I can do on the battery. I am definitely atypical in that I generate more power than I use with solar, cut my wood locally while during timberstand improvement for my wood boiler and haven't used heating oil for 5 years. Add in the latest acquisition and I can be off grid for many days if I need or want to View attachment 6735 . (its AC coupled so once I switch it over off grid my other solar systems do not even know that they are off grid). It will charge up the Toyota on a sunny day although with net metering I plug it in when its convenient for me. Change the rules around to give me an incentive to load shift and move my demands to a low demand period and I will do it.

It will be interesting to see how hikers and outdoor recreation will change with the hoped shift to low carbon. Even though it looks like the MBTA will be extended to Nashua and eventually Manchester I dont see the old rail routes to the whites being recreated in the near term . Luckily the old railroad right of ways are protected but the economics do not make sense. So if folks want to go the mountains to recreate they will be in electric vehicles and charge infrastructure is going to be needed. My guess is given the technological growth rate on batteries economical 500 mile range will be here soon and that will cover most folks rides to the mountains without even worrying about charging. Probably worth starting a thread on green hiking.

 

[maineguy]

My understanding is that wood burning releases more CO2 than oil for the same amount of heat produced.

 

[rocket21]

My understanding is that wood burning releases more CO2 than oil for the same amount of heat produced.

Naturally occurring forest fires also release CO2. Trees consume CO2. I think that's what Elton John's "Circle of Life" song was about?

 

[OldEric]

Talk about the costs associated with the life cycles of EV batteries - initial manufacturing, recharging, disposal. They are nice for feeling good about ourselves but maybe not so nice in the big picture.

 

[peakbagger]

Lots of potential for even more thread drift.

 

[skiguy]

Talk about the costs associated with the life cycles of EV batteries - initial manufacturing, recharging, disposal. They are nice for feeling good about ourselves but maybe not so nice in the big picture.

I would agree. We already have Yuka Mountain. As already mentioned in this thread a multi faceted approach rather than one linear approach is more realistic to solving the planet’s energy concerns. We also have to realize an interdependent paradigm among States and Countries is inevitable which is where IMO The State of Maine is only failing themselves in this particular situation.