New Insect repellents recommended by CDC

[David Metsky]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050428/ap_on_he_me/west_nile

Looks like the gov't agencies have decided that picaridin or the oil of lemon eucalyptus are safe and effective. Options for those who are uncomfortable with DEET.

It's getting to be that time again.

-dave-

 

[spencer]

lemon eucalyptus is the main act on amateur night.

1) you can reapply it very frequently and get minimal benefit (as opposed to almost none if you apply it once)

2) you can use deet and be happy (for now anyway)

3) you can adopt "mind over matter"

but I hope everyone doesn't run out and spend their money on the lemon eucalyptus stuff thinking it'll be the cure...

do a search for the landmark research that came out in New England Journal of Medicine in 2001 or 2002. I think they found after about 28% DEET concentration you get severely diminishing returns.

Thanks for the intereting article Dave. But after lots of trial and error, I found lemon eucalyptus to be a waste of time.

spencer

 

[Tom Rankin]

Give me DEET or give me DEATH! (By flies, mosquitos, etc., etc. !!)

 

[beverly]

picaridin

Does anybody have experience with picaridin? The information I've seen says that it's protection is comparable to DEET. It's been used with success in Europe, Asia and Australia and was recently approved for use in the US. There is at least one product that has it - Cutter Advanced Repellent.
DEET is just too stinky.

 

[adamiata]

What exactly is the hangup with DEET? Does it cause cancer or something like that?

 

[Artex]

What exactly is the hangup with DEET? Does it cause cancer or something like that?

It melts plastic. No joke. That stuff was forged by Lucifer himself.

 

[Orphic Seth]

It melts plastic. No joke.

I usually keep a small bottle with me if it becomes absolutely imperative to use it, wrapped in a seperate ziploc. One day the little thing sprung a little leak, unbeknownst to me, and I had the bag on my nightstand. It melted through the ziploc and burned through the finish on the nightstand, leaving an impression of the bottle and the plastic. Now, I inspect the bottle before every trip to make sure it isn't about to dissolve my fork/tent/sleeping bag/etc.

 

[proszach]

is lemon eucalyptus the stuff found in naturalpel?? cause if it is, that stuff doesn't keep away jack. when i take campers hiking at camp, we bring naturapel for the kiddies, and bens 100 for the counselors...cause we don't care about our health

 

[Umsaskis]

When I was a kid, I used Ben's 100 (95% DEET). Black flies in northern Maine, you know. Yup, it melts plastic alright. I always got black all over my hands from the lawn mower handle when I used the stuff.

Then I decided that I'd learn to deal with the bugs. I hardly ever use bug spray anymore. And that includes many long mornings sitting absolutely still in bug-infested marshes in the height of black fly season in northern Maine, counting wading birds. The key is to completely enclose yourself to keep them out. Even then they crawl in between the jacket and bugnet, under the elastic wristband of your jacket, and it sounds like a downpour from them hitting the top of your bugnet. Camping in the evenings involves lifting up the bugnet to get the fork to my mouth for each bite of supper. Swimming in the stream to get the grime of the day's work off - run to the stream as fast as you can and get completely submerged, then run back to the tent as fast as you can. Hiking - walk really fast and don't stop unless it's a windy spot. But, proof that life can be lived without bug spray in one of the worst bug places in the northeastern US.

My dad still uses Ben's 100. But he's still alive....

 

[rhihn]

is lemon eucalyptus the stuff found in naturalpel?? cause if it is, that stuff doesn't keep away jack. when i take campers hiking at camp, we bring naturapel for the kiddies, and bens 100 for the counselors...cause we don't care about our health

Naturepel contains citronella oil, about 10% or so, I believe. I don't think it's good for much except maybe in one's back yard (depending upon where your back yard is, of course). Ditto the citronella candles. In the past we have used pure oil of citronella, with mixed results, and you do have to reapply it often. You'll also leave a trail of lemony citronella odor as you hike! I have heard that citronella can be toxic to birds, but I'm not sure under what conditions. IMO, DEET is the most effective, and even that doesn't always work well. As with any chemical, there are going to be side effects, and the ability of DEET to melt some plastics has been noted. I don't slather it all over myself, and I wouldn't use it on my children, as I've heard they are more apt to have nerve damage from it. I've also heard that it can cause problems with some medications and sunblock products. But maybe someone has and can post more accurate objective info than mine on DEET, citronella, eucalyptus, etc., so we'll know more than hearsay.

 

[TCD]

Originally Posted by adamiata
What exactly is the hangup with DEET? Does it cause cancer or something like that?

____________
See the "Black Flies" thread in this same forum. in that thread DougPaul posted good information regarding the safety of DEET. In short, it's safe.

But it has two strikes against it in the lay press: 1. It has a "chemical" name; 2. It works. Both these things will draw the hysterical crowd (think "The Alar scare.").

I'm sure DEET does have neural effects. When accidentally applied to sensitive tissue, the effects of DEET are very much like the effects of the juice of a "hot" pepper (it numbs the lips, it burns the eyes, etc.). And certainly keep it off your colorful plastic items. But again the research shows, that when used properly and in moderation, it's safe.

TCD

 

[sapblatt]

Deet

"So we came up the hill...not one living mosquito. I love the smell of DEET in the morning. It smells like victory."

Colonel Kilgore

 

[Tramper Al]

The key is to completely enclose yourself to keep them out. Even then they crawl in between the jacket and bugnet, under the elastic wristband of your jacket, and it sounds like a downpour from them hitting the top of your bugnet.

That sounds good, but I really haven't found a way to keep covered up like this when I am trying to hike uphill with a good sized pack in summer. At some point, termperature management becomes a major issue, and in peak black fly season in Maine, that's where the DEET comes in.

We shouldn't be surprised that DEET in high concentration 'melts' plastic, as it is an organic solvent, yes? I'd like to make the switch from 95% DEET to 28% DEET, but I fear I may just end up reapplying myself 3.4X as often (or as generously). On a bad bug day, it's still not enough for me.

Any good folklore preventive measures out there? Garlic or Vitamin E supplements? I might be inclined try something that was unlikely to harm me and thoroughly unproven in its effectiveness. And I love garlic.

 

[rondak46]

people taste different

One thing I have noticed is that when hiking with one or more partners, someone may be immune to the bug attacks. I am guessing that something the person is eating is giving them the immunity.

Mike

 

[rhihn]

That sounds good, but I really haven't found a way to keep covered up like this when I am trying to hike uphill with a good sized pack in summer. At some point, termperature management becomes a major issue, and in peak black fly season in Maine, that's where the DEET comes in.

Any good folklore preventive measures out there? Garlic or Vitamin E supplements. I might be inclined try something that was unlikely to harm me and thoroughly unproven in it's effectiveness. And I love garlic.

I've seen bug "shirts" (essentially shirts made of netting), but I don't know how well they work. For camp, I have a bug jacket that works quite well, but it's too hot to hike in. I've tried the garlic thing with no success. I think you have to ingest a lot of it to work, maybe the pill form? I'm just speculating here. I haven't heard of vitamin E for this purpose, but I have heard of one of the vitamin B's as a remedy. I forget which one, or how much to take. I seem to recall you have to load up on it before a hike. Again, I have no idea how effective these are. I'm sure others will comment. for now, I'll stick to DEET.

 

[David Metsky]

I'd like to make the switch from 95% DEET to 28% DEET, but I fear I may just end up reapplying myself 3.4X as often (or as generously). On a bad bug day, it's still not enough for me.

I don't think you'll see any need to reapply more often with 28%. They both will last roughly the same amount of time, you get no benefit from the higher concentrations in either bug repellency or lasting time.

Any good folklore preventive measures out there? Garlic or Vitamin E supplements. I might be inclined try something that was unlikely to harm me and thoroughly unproven in it's effectiveness. And I love garlic.

While lots of folks swear by them, they have failed time and time again to show any effectiveness in studies. Garlic works better as a human repellent than a bug repellent, but sometimes that's the main goal.

-dave-

 

[Grumpy]

Not being one who usually gets heavily bothered by bugs, as a rule I try not to not use bug repellants.

DEET based repellants really turn me off, simply because in my pea brain type of thinking anything that can melt down the equipment I carry isn’t likely to do my hide any good over the long haul. Maybe there’s no scientific basis for apprehension about DEET, but even the most rational among us are entitled to our own little myth beliefs and superstitions, aren’t we?

Mrs. (Pretty) Grumpy is very easily bothered by bugs. Last summer she started using a product called “Botanicals” by Off!. Not inexpensive. The advertised ingredient is eucalyptus something, and it contains no DEET. This product worked very well for Mrs. G., who persuaded me to try some. It worked well for me, too, lasting even through heavy sweat sessions.

EDIT:

The Off! Botanicals worked as well for me as I recollect any DEET product ever did. (end edit)

So I feel comfy recommending that people who don’t like (the idea of) DEET might try it.

By the way, the Off! Botanicals works better and lasts longer than the Listerine I used to splash on ocasionally during high bug season.

G.

 

[Waumbek]

If the FDA ever bans DEET, I'm going over the border and buying a 25-year supply. That should more than do it for me, the actuaries say. If they've closed the border by then, I'm sneaking into Canada and staying there. For me, no DEET=no being outside from May to September.

 

[TCD]

"people taste different"

Yes they do, but I don't think it's only what people are eating. There are a lot of chemical and metabolic differences between people. Most bugs find us either by CO2, IR, or both. Different people present different "profiles" to the bugs.

There are also a lot of trace chemicals involved. Obviously, the bugs that can detect skin and navigate to it best are evolutionarily favored.

Interesting article:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_17_157/ai_62111663

I am about average when it comes to black flies; they bother me about the same as the rest of the group. But I am an absolute magnet for mosquitoes. If I'm within ten feet, no one else needs to worry; they're all on me.

(Search on "attract mosquitoes" and find innumerable articles on this topic.)

TCD

 

[Umsaskis]

Back when I was using bug spray a lot, in the midst of the clouds of black flies pelting me like rain, I did notice a difference between 95% and 28% DEET. However, I've since decided it wasn't the percent of DEET but the other ingredients. On the rarer occasions when I use it now, I buy the 26% or 28% DEET kind, but only Cutter's. For some reason Off and Ben's and other brands, even with the same percent of DEET, don't work well. Cutters always works pretty well, probably because they haven't tried to mask the smell of DEET with other ingredients, so it still stinks, but it works. I've used it in the Adirondacks against deerflies which are the one species of bug I can't get away from when hiking. They're much worse in the Dacks than in Maine or NH, which is probably a tradeoff for not having as many blackflies. Not even the flailing arm method works on them, some days.