new memorial plaque on Mount Clay

[sapblatt]

you wouldn't last a day in southie.

that is a compliment!

I agree with giggy too - let the FS remove it, but "telling on them" is kind of in the realm of a five year old.
Personally, I want my ashes scattered up there - no plaques...depending upon my mood the last time I revise a will it may be a nice location like Bondcliff, or it may be halfway across the Parapet.

 

[chomp]

I disagree with you guys who think that reporting the plaque was over the top. I think that making a plaque and mounting on a prominent peak in the whites without asking anyone is a pretty entitled thing to do. To do something like this is to assume that the mountain is yours and that you are so important that you don't have to check with anyone. I see no problem with contacting the USFS and informing them that someone littered on the mountain.

Just because its a memorial to someone who died doesn't make this any less of of a littering offense. But you can count me among the group of people that fights to remove all those roadside crosses, so I am probably in the minority on this issue. Yes, Im sorry that someone died in an accident, but I don't need to see white crosses and wilting flowers on a public road every half mile. Leaving your personal message on a mountain is wrong, and it should be removed as soon a possible. Just because the personal message in this case is about an unfortunate loss of life doesn't change that view for me.

 

[David Metsky]

I'm all for reporting this to the USFS. This isn't "telling on them"; it's reporting something that doesn't belong there. It's the right thing to do, IMO and I would (and have) done it myself.

[mod hat]
As a precautionary warning, do not insult the poster. We're edging very close to that right now.
[/mod hat]

 

[dr_wu002]

Be Discreet

I agree with giggy too - let the FS remove it, but "telling on them" is kind of in the realm of a five year old.
Personally, I want my ashes scattered up there - no plaques...depending upon my mood the last time I revise a will it may be a nice location like Bondcliff, or it may be halfway across the Parapet.

Report vs. Wait for the Rangers to find it? I don't know.

Plaque: fancy graffiti.

Ashes: cremation creates a lot of CO2.

Everyone forgets how I want to do it when I go: left out to be eaten by animals big and little, remains then recycled and scattered, discreetly, through out the mountains. Sometime in the future when you go to step on that "brown mountain berry" in front of you, think again, it could be me!

Go Green: Recycle Yourself.

-Dr. Wu

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Ashes: cremation creates a lot of CO2.
-Dr. Wu

Hmmm ... wonder how the CO2 load of cremation compares to the CO2 load of building casket, vault and everything else involved in putting a body in the ground?

 

[giggy]

ok fisher cat - no insult intended by any means.

chomp - actually agree with you 110% - I just wouldn't pick up the phone cuz it doesn't bother me. you and fisher cat are right.

I may have my flip flops on here a bit I admit.

 

[dr_wu002]

Hmmm ... wonder how the CO2 load of cremation compares to the CO2 load of building casket, vault and everything else involved in putting a body in the ground?

That stuff just isn't for me. Honestly, I'd just rather have a stone tied around my neck and then get tossed out into the ocean.

It's probably not that hard a calculation. The cremation part is easy. A 200lb person is reduced to what, a pound or so? A significant portion of that is water weight. Too many variables in the second one. Not everyone gets the same casket, and not everyone is buried in a vault. Also, what is your starting point for the calculation? The oil extracted from the ground to power your tools? etc. Rather than make a point vs. point comparison one could simply analyze how much CO2 cremation produces and weigh this against what you feel is acceptable. I imagine it's not bad compared to the car your drove for the past however many years. Then you have space issues: particularly in cities where real estate is at a premium. An urn just sits on your fireplace or gets thrown in the trash.

I still like the idea of just getting tossed off the side of a boat or chucked out of an airplane. But I think it would be somewhat ridiculous, perhaps, to worry about my final moment polluting the atmosphere with excess carbon when I've been driving around in a race car all my life.

Then again, most of this stuff is really for the comfort of your family. Sure I'd like to be ground up in a wood chipper, but I bet my wife would be pretty horrified if that happened. I would hope that she avoided a plaque regardless because I'm not really sure what that's for.

Edit: I just noticed something nice. On my driver's license their is a heart that has the words "Organ Donor" written on it. And that doesn't mean I'm sending my pipe organ to the local church. I think this would be the greatest honor if, besides being dead I could help someone else live a little easier. Also, a friend of mine is going through med school right now so I suppose he could have the rest for his autopsy class.

-Dr. Wu

 

[Fisher Cat]

No offense taken anyone. I don't know where on Clay it is, that is their problem. If I wanted to be a jerk I would remove it myself, that is not my business. I will allow the USFS to run thru their procedure because I don't know exactly what they will do. Will they contact the family first? I dunno, again their problem. Others posted pics of plaques they have discovered, but I made no mention of them, the USFS will/will not discover them.
The mountains, technically,belong to everyone. If someone did this in my front yard, I would report it to the authorities and let them take action instead of doing it myself.Why? because its the proper channel. Besides, I'm too busy picking up trash, like dirty diapers, dog-doo covered sandals, t-shirts, and bottles on trails we adopt, that's within our authority. Removing plaques, that's the job of the USFS.
Like I said, no offense. The mountains are a sensitive issue. Would we take offense if someone decided to name an established trail after someone they know and made a sign, removed the proper one and put theirs up? Yea, I think we would.

 

[Fisher Cat]

Just one more thing..I was thinking(I know, bad idea!)
This whole issue seemed to make people wonder what the procedure or stand of the USFS is on this issue, hence my inquiry.I figured that one might as well go to the source and find out. However, allow me to apologize if in the course of this discussion if my actions and/or comments offended anyone. I'm not out to disrespect the feelings of anyone's family because of their loss, nor anyone who would have acted differently.

 

[sapblatt]

ok fisher cat - no insult intended by any means.

chomp - actually agree with you 110% - I just wouldn't pick up the phone cuz it doesn't bother me. you and fisher cat are right.

I may have my flip flops on here a bit I admit.

...again I agree with giggy - chomps post made a lot of sense...

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I disagree with you guys who think that reporting the plaque was over the top. I think that making a plaque and mounting on a prominent peak in the whites without asking anyone is a pretty entitled thing to do. To do something like this is to assume that the mountain is yours and that you are so important that you don't have to check with anyone. I see no problem with contacting the USFS and informing them that someone littered on the mountain.

Just because its a memorial to someone who died doesn't make this any less of of a littering offense. But you can count me among the group of people that fights to remove all those roadside crosses, so I am probably in the minority on this issue. Yes, Im sorry that someone died in an accident, but I don't need to see white crosses and wilting flowers on a public road every half mile. Leaving your personal message on a mountain is wrong, and it should be removed as soon a possible. Just because the personal message in this case is about an unfortunate loss of life doesn't change that view for me.

I think a bit of civility is in order here. To characterize a memorial as "litter" is harsh. Please keep in mind that she was a loved member of someone's family. The memorial may have been placed without permission, but it serves no one to act rudely. It's quite possible that this person's family may either be reading this thread, or someone may provide it to them.

As for whether or not to notifiy the USFS - that's a moot point. It's been made clear on many occasions that USFS staff monitor this BB regularly, so they've been notified already. If blacknblue found the plaque, so can they.

 

[SherpaKroto]

One person's monument is another's litter. In the context written, I think Chomp's words appropriate. Granted, the plaque is well done, but it will still be seen as an eyesore to many.

Memories of a departed friend mean little to those that did not know the person. Those who did already have the memory in their minds, and cherish it. To me, placing a plaque in this manner diminishes, not enhances the memory to the rest of the general populace (if that makes any sense).

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I didn't know her. She was very close to my age. The thought of someone losing their wife, mother, daughter, friend at that moment brought a tear to my eye. It did not diminish my experience in any way (breathing cog smoke diminished my plaque-reading experience.) I did wonder what connection there was to this mountain, however.

RIP, Carol...

I certainly understand the "it doesn't belong" point of view. I think calling it litter is a little bit harsh -- litter is tossed by careless, disrespectful and/or lazy people. A memorial is carefully and deliberately placed. One could argue that is more egregious I suppose...

Tim

 

[RoySwkr]

Yesterday I found a memorial rock on a 4k peak, about the size of my hand and placed on the summit cairn, carefully lettered "DC 10/6/56 - 5/1/07". I could have packed it out as it weighed only a couple pounds and turned it over to the Forest Service, or I could have given it a toss over the abyss and watched it land a quarter mile away, but I did neither and left it. Later it occurred to me that if I'd turned it over and moved it under the scrub, it could have remained in peace until the next ice age.

Feel free to tell me what I should have done, I don't know

 

[Fisher Cat]

Yesterday I found a memorial rock on a 4k peak, about the size of my hand and placed on the summit cairn, carefully lettered "DC 10/6/56 - 5/1/07". I could have packed it out as it weighed only a couple pounds and turned it over to the Forest Service, or I could have given it a toss over the abyss and watched it land a quarter mile away, but I did neither and left it. Later it occurred to me that if I'd turned it over and moved it under the scrub, it could have remained in peace until the next ice age.

Feel free to tell me what I should have done, I don't know

First I would like to echo the sentiments of bikehikeskifish. Carol -may you rest in peace and forever have a permanent home in the minds and hearts of your loved ones.

What do you do with a lettered rock? I guess whatever you wish!
I guess I was kinda hoping I would have no more retrospective on this issue, but I did get to thinking. In the email sent to me by the AMC, copied here:
Here's the email in return:

Scott,

You are correct, monuments are not allowed on USFS lands and there is a process
for removal of such unauthorized objects.

For example, a family just donated funds to support the construction of the new
AMC Kinsman Pond Shelter in the Whites. The family that donated the money,
donated it in their father's name and had a plaque made to honor him. That
plaque could not be hung at the Shelter because it is on USFS property. So, the
plaque is hung outside of Lonesome Lake Hut on NH State Park Lands (with
permission from the state), 1.9 miles away from the shelter. So, we (AMC) can
not get around regulations regarding plaques in the forest either.

These should be forwarded over to the Trails Supervisor of the USFS or the
Dispersed Recreation Manager in the USFS for the appropriate district.

I will take care of forwarding this on to the Andro District Trails Folks.

Thanks,

I noted a difference. Obviously what the family did for their father was loving and thoughtful. However,they couldn't hang it where they wanted, so in turn they sought permission to do something in their father's memory, received it, and put it somewhere else. Good idea. Request or assume? Sensitive issue. Human nature, some will, some will not. To put up a permanent memorial such as any plaque in the Whites requires intent.
Was that spot special to the family? Was that her first hike? Did someone propose to her there on that spot? I don't know, I like to think that I pass thousands of spots that are important to people I have never met, but seek to imagine how they felt when I hike the Whites. I have a vivid imagination.
Folks, I don't agree with every policy of the AMC, USFS, or anyone else. That's why as a NH native, I don't belong to nothin, but the NH (North of the Notches in particular)ideal. But even that requires a respect for, if not obedience to the law. Sometime its gonna protect me too. Lord knows I need it.

LIVE FREE OR DIE, DEATH IS NOT THE WORST OF ALL EVILS- Gen John Stark

 

[wardsgirl]

I think if the trail had a special significance for Carol's family and friends, they might consider adopting that trail through the AMC or WMNF Adopt-a-Trail programs. This could be a fitting tribute to Carol, without the legal ramifications of a plaque. For many years, my sweetie and I have maintained the section of the Twinway where we met (14 years ago). I happen to know the adopters of the Mt. Clay Loop and they hadn't heard of the plaque until I pointed it out to them.

 

[Bolivia]

New Bristol, CT

There is no Connecticut town named "New Bristol". There is one named "Bristol". Seems like the newspaper got it wrong.

 

[Sugarloafer]

edit to delete

 

[Cath]

Yesterday I found a memorial rock on a 4k peak, about the size of my hand and placed on the summit cairn, carefully lettered it weighed only a couple pounds

I recently came across this rock too. Almost didn't notice it. I think it's a nice idea. But again, if we all were to do this, after awhile, there could be a whole truck load of lettered stones on any given peak. Might be a way to finally bring some of those favorite non-listed 4k's up in rank per their elevation I like wardsgirl's idea, as a way to honor & give back ~

 

[sierra]

personally, I tend to mind my own business. I would not report this plaque to the usfs but thats me, as far as removing it personally as someone suggested, I would not ever consider that,it would be a dishonor to the decseased imo.