NH Fish And Game Seeking Help With Missing Hiker

[maineguy]

I can recall and poin to any number of those moments in my earler days. I never forgot what my navigator flight instructor once told me.... "All navigators will make mistakes. The difference between the better navigators and those not so successful is in quickly recognizing the mistake and how quickly it can be corrected." That philosophy has stayed with me and worked well for me ever since.IMany times after completing a backcountry trip i would recall mistakes I made and learning fom them I resolved to never do that again. But I felt I learned much more after those trips than on trips where everything went perfectly well. Thankfully with time and age, I think, I have learned to avoid most of the bad stuff now.

We had lots of USAF Navigators living in our neighborhood back when Pease AFB was still operational full time. Their fellow pilots (there were many) affectionately referred to them as "naviguessers".

 

[CaptCaper]

Does anyone here think a map and compass (and requisite knowledge) would have saved this young lady? Navigating by map and compass in heavy wind and low visibility above treeline is extremely challenging. And unless she knew exactly where she was, M&C would have only given her a general indication of the right direction to travel. And kthat's assuming she would have had the mental acuity, finger dexterity, and inner fortitude to get a good bearing in those conditions and in that state. Big assumptions.

In this particular case, I think a beefy phone charger could have helped, but that's pretty speculative on my part.

Amen... in those conditions I'll take my Montana 700 any day. Thank God the Space Shuttle and other craft don't fly by map and compass.

 

[NHClimber]

I am always surprised there aren't more hiker fatalities and rescues. But ultimately, the numbers would seem quite low. As such, committing more resources would not seem efficient unless there is a meaningful uptick that is costing more in rescue dollars/risk to SAR personnel than if dollars were allocated to more education/trailhead stewards/other mitigation strategies.

 

[Nessmuk]

We had lots of USAF Navigators living in our neighborhood back when Pease AFB was still operational full time. Their fellow pilots (there were many) affectionately referred to them as "naviguessers".

One of my fondest moment memories of my pilots was more than once when flying over (and beyond) the north Pole as I was busily taking sextant shot measurements to navigate by the stars, he said "Hey Nav, would you like another sandwich? Here, take mine". Once when the installed Inertial navigation system obviously crapped out. Piece of junk. (as in Remember the soviets shot down commercial flight KAL 007 having a malfunctioning INS) No such thing as GPS when I flew. The same offer came from my pilot when flying from LA to Sydney. I believe they trusted I was not guessing. Griffiss pilots knew who they had on board.,

 

[maineguy]

One of my fondest moment memories of my pilots was more than once when flying over (and beyond) the north Pole as I was busily taking s sextant shot measurement to navigate by the stars, he said "Hey Nav, would you like another sandwich? Here, take mine". Once when the installed Inertial navigation system obviously crapped out. Piece of junk. (as in Remember the soviets shot down commercial flight KAL 007 having a malfunctioning INS) No such thing as GPS when I flew. The same offer came from my pilot when flying from LA to Sydney. I believe they trusted I was not guessing. Griffiss pilots knew who they had on board.,

We did some celestial navigation on the ships I served on (not on the submarine, though). It was fun, but I wouldn't want to do it every day. Of course, on a ship, you can only shoot the stars during evening and morning dusk when you can see the horizon. Sun lines are a different story. On a plane, I guess you could shoot them whenever you wanted. Are the Nautical Almanac tables used in aviation the same as those used at sea, or are they different because of the high altitudes involved?

 

[iAmKrzys]

If this young lady did not accidentally walk off the trail (at least for the most part of her hike) then I guess part of her bad luck was that she did not run into anyone else on the trail. If she met other hikers they might have recognized that she was in trouble and perhaps offer some assistance. I suspect that quite a few serious emergencies on the trail are prevented because other hikers help out someone in trouble.

 

[Nessmuk]

Are the Nautical Almanac tables used in aviation the same as those used at sea, or are they different because of the high altitudes involved?

They are the same tables, The geometry of earth relative to the universe does not change when going from sea level to 40,000 feet. My refernce ephemeris was called the Air Almanac and with it I used a set of three volumes aptly called "sight reduction tables". The only addiitional factor I had to apply when using a bubble setant was a correction for the Coriolis effect due to our speed cross deflection of the bubble.

 

[maineguy]

They are the same tables, The geometry of earth relative to the universe does not change when going from sea level to 40,000 feet. My refernce ephermis was called the Air Almanac and with it I used a set of three volumes aptly called "sight reduction tables". The only addiitional factor I had to apply when using a bubble setant was a correction for the Coriolis effect due to our speed cross deflection of the bubble.

That makes sense. I was thinking of the height correction that needs to be applied when you are shipboard (yacht vs aircraft carrier), but that is only used because you are measuring the stars down to the horizon, which will vary with your height.

 

[Nessmuk]

Yes, I did also have to apply a correction for atmospheric refraction when celesstial objects were observed at low angles, even (and especially) at negative dip angles below the horizontal. Most people probably do not realize that at ground level when the sun is viewed on the distant horizon, its actual elevation positon is in fact below the horizon, due to refraction. The same effect causes the sun to appear distorted as a flattened football shape, not round.

 

[dug]

I am always surprised there aren't more hiker fatalities and rescues. But ultimately, the numbers would seem quite low. As such, committing more resources would not seem efficient unless there is a meaningful uptick that is costing more in rescue dollars/risk to SAR personnel than if dollars were allocated to more education/trailhead stewards/other mitigation strategies.

I've said it before but I can easily think of a half-dozen times, likely more, where death was just as likely an outcome as not over the last 45 years. Falling into icy streams, slipping down slides, stuck out at night, wearing the Devil's fabric in a rainstorm, etc. All ended in a laugh at the time. I'm sure I am not alone, either.

 

[Nessmuk]

I am always surprised there aren't more hiker fatalities and rescues. But ultimately, the numbers would seem quite low. As such, committing more resources would not seem efficient unless there is a meaningful uptick that is costing more in rescue dollars/risk to SAR personnel than if dollars were allocated to more education/trailhead stewards/other mitigation strategies.

As a member of a NYS volunteer SAR team for the past almost 30 years, it is true that large campaign rescue incidents lasting perhaps for several days have dramatically fallen off, especially in the past 6-12 years. Before the common advent of the cell phone, my team, located on the western edge of the Adirondacks, was commonly called out to assist NYSDEC Forest Rangers up to a dozen times each year. With increased cell phone coverage (not a bad thing for those who find themselves injured or in trouble), forest rangers can pinpoint and descend in numbers upon a rescue site within a very short time and assist the poor subject out of the woods within a very few hours. No need to go through the extra planning, feeding, risk, and paperwork involved in activating the NYS Federation of SAR teams. Increasingly, the few calls for volunteers today are for incidents such as Dementia patients wandering off in search of some long ago past life location, or for those despondent persons intent on a remote location suicide. Few to none for truly lost persons.

Back in the day we had a fully equipped trailer and plenty of members eager to assist on any given day. Now I might get the call from none to maybe up to twice each year. Members have little incentive and are reluctant to take a day off from work, even with employers who understand and offer free paid time off to first responders. Teams are increasingly finding little reason to exist and have a hard time recruiting and holding on to good members. Incentive to train on days off disappears, especially if it is the same old routine with the typical redundant mock search training. Creative variation in training scenarios helps, but it is sad.

Bottom line, IMO, ubiquitous cell phone usage and efficiency of forest ranger response has signficantly changed the need and frequency of severe rescue incident response resulting in lower numbers of fatalities. Ultimately a good thing for potential victims. But bad for maintaining traditional SAR team existance.

 

[egilbe]

LL Bean offered a "FREE" map and compass course that my wife took. She can navigate using a map now. She can look at a topo map and tell where she is by the contour lines and terrain features. Not that she ever veers off trail. I'll look at Farout guides to find how far we are to the next water source. We've located, we think, most of the water sources in the Presi's. Some of them I wouldn't drink out of unless I was truly desperate and there are other, cleaner, springs up there.

Something about the Army saying "Your next meal is here. Figure out where you are. Go get your meal. Oh yeah, don't dawdle, because at 1230 hours, your meal is driving off." Good times.

 

[DayTrip]

We've located, we think, most of the water sources in the Presi's.

Is that something you have documented in any way that is shareable and if so would you share it? I frequent the Presi's on most of my hikes and have some notes on places I get water but a comprehensive list would be a great tool. Understand completely if you'd prefer not to.

 

[NHClimber]

Between a map, GPS, smartphone, basic understanding of where you are in the geography of the area (e.g., streams, drainages, other prominent features), and a general sense of direction based on the sun, it is actually pretty difficult to get lost unless above tree line and in a whiteout. Of course, the latter is where most problems can be expected to occur. I'm a nerd so I tend to know where I am on a map right down to the tenth of a mile. It's sort of a game I play in my head and I'm pretty accurate. Years reading maps while in the latrine!

 

[dug]

It's entirely possible she turned around, as has been told to do. She missed a turn, in an area where it's not uncommon. Lost, cold, bad weather, she decided to get off the ridge head west down the first drainage she found in the hope it would lead her out. Honestly, seems like she potentially did a lot of things she was supposed to, no? (Disregarding everything up to that point)

 

[sierra]

I find it interesting how many people seem effected by this girl's death. An Asian man dies up there last year and while it was covered and talked about, it was nothing like the scale this has been hashed over. I guess young and beautiful really does count in our society. Two points if I may. One, this is not an isolated case, she is one of many I have heard about in my years in the Whites. Secondly, you cannot prevent these accidents from happening. The porous borders of the Whites combined with the content on social media, will keep a constant supply of novices showing up unprepared full of vigor and enthusiasm. I swear if I see one more trip report for The Ridge, I'll jump off the former Old Man site. AS far as the AMC goes, I'll spare you my pontification on why I never joined and never will. My only AMC comment is that for a nonprofit, they sure charge high prices for every single thing they offer. Granted most of the rich white folks from Boston are not complaining, so maybe they are simply not aware of the issue that people of modest means face. REI offers some nice free clinics and frankly there is enough free material out there, that there is zero reason to not be prepared in any regard. I taught myself map and compass, I know just enough to get by. Got lost twice out west and made it out in one piece, would I go bushwhack in Alaska? Hell no. Most people have a threshold of suffering, I think in many cases its reasonably high, in some cases its very low. People have survived incredible things, yet some people don't last long at all. I think the most dangerous part of the mountains is how God damn awful they can be, seriously, I've had two incidents that were enough to have me question my fortitude. In the end, I feared death more than suffering.

 

[skiguy]

Between a map, GPS, smartphone, basic understanding of where you are in the geography of the area (e.g., streams, drainages, other prominent features), and a general sense of direction based on the sun, it is actually pretty difficult to get lost unless above tree line and in a whiteout. Of course, the latter is where most problems can be expected to occur. I'm a nerd so I tend to know where I am on a map right down to the tenth of a mile. It's sort of a game I play in my head and I'm pretty accurate. Years reading maps while in the latrine!

I agree. Although you are talking about acquired skill sets. Even the sitting on the latrine part. Don’t laugh there are books about that crap. Problem is it is easier to just get on FB and start pecking away at one’s keyboard. The point, click, give it to me now and I don’t want to do any work for it hiker is and has been here for awhile. It’s all about instant gratification rather than taking the time out to truly learn something.

 

[DayTrip]

I find it interesting how many people seem effected by this girl's death. .

I think this is another element of the social media universe. People dramatize everything, try to out do and one-up each other, portray themselves as such giving and caring people, and 90 seconds after they post they're already thinking about someone or something else. I find it totally fake honestly but that's just me. For me the deluge of "So thankful for what you do" and "Thoughts and prayers" comments ring the most hollow. It's like you have to post this to show what a good person you are. Maybe if you're thankful instead of a comment make a donation to a SAR group or buy a Hike Safe card. So many people think a Facebook comment is "action" and making a real difference when 99% of the time it's just useless noise.

Maybe I'm just a heartless ******* but I don't understand people being deeply impacted by a complete stranger. I can sympathize for the situation, the parents/survivors, etc but I'm not in bed for 3 days crying with the shades drawn. It sucks but I don't know the person. It's the same phenomenon in the positive direction with idol worship of sports figures, music persona, etc. People getting hysterical screaming and crying, passing out, etc. I'll never understand that level of fanaticism from someone you only know from the TV.

 

[skiguy]

I think this is another element of the social media universe. People dramatize everything, try to out do and one-up each other, portray themselves as such giving and caring people, and 90 seconds after they post they're already thinking about someone or something else. I find it totally fake honestly but that's just me. For me the deluge of "So thankful for what you do" and "Thoughts and prayers" comments ring the most hollow. It's like you have to post this to show what a good person you are. Maybe if you're thankful instead of a comment make a donation to a SAR group or buy a Hike Safe card. So many people think a Facebook comment is "action" and making a real difference when 99% of the time it's just useless noise.

Maybe I'm just a heartless ******* but I don't understand people being deeply impacted by a complete stranger. I can sympathize for the situation, the parents/survivors, etc but I'm not in bed for 3 days crying with the shades drawn. It sucks but I don't know the person. It's the same phenomenon in the positive direction with idol worship of sports figures, music persona, etc. People getting hysterical screaming and crying, passing out, etc. I'll never understand that level of fanaticism from someone you only know from the TV.

Wait until Ticketmaster starts selling parking permits for FW/OBP.

 

[sierra]

I think this is another element of the social media universe. People dramatize everything, try to out do and one-up each other, portray themselves as such giving and caring people, and 90 seconds after they post they're already thinking about someone or something else. I find it totally fake honestly but that's just me. For me the deluge of "So thankful for what you do" and "Thoughts and prayers" comments ring the most hollow. It's like you have to post this to show what a good person you are. Maybe if you're thankful instead of a comment make a donation to a SAR group or buy a Hike Safe card. So many people think a Facebook comment is "action" and making a real difference when 99% of the time it's just useless noise.

Maybe I'm just a heartless ******* but I don't understand people being deeply impacted by a complete stranger. I can sympathize for the situation, the parents/survivors, etc but I'm not in bed for 3 days crying with the shades drawn. It sucks but I don't know the person. It's the same phenomenon in the positive direction with idol worship of sports figures, music persona, etc. People getting hysterical screaming and crying, passing out, etc. I'll never understand that level of fanaticism from someone you only know from the TV.

Too funny, but so true.