NH Fish And Game Seeking Help With Missing Hiker

[Mike P.]

What can we do different to try and prevent the next young or older individual from this happening again?

I tried to set-up a new FB account using an ancient lap-top and saw that lurker accounts I set up when there was even less security than now are preventing me at the moment from getting set up in that social cesspool.

I can view some of the FB 4K page and in general, the FB format is much more conducive to starting new questions (more like ask for the 1,000th time, how to get in hiking shape and what gear to buy) and showing smiling selfies, bragging about my trip with my _________ (dog, child walking, child carried, SO, friends) etc. You have to dig to get to the topics, FAQ safety links and advice and these pages are bland to look at and frankly aesthetically boring. I would like to think you could link right at the top the Current Mt. Washington conditions.

It's a rah-rah page and I could see where negativity and lecturing would be frowned upon. "Stop raining on their selfie parade"

 

[TCD]

Tragic outcome.

"What can we do different to try and prevent the next young or older individual from this happening again?"

It's already been touched upon in this thread. Full time, paid trailhead stewards at the major trailheads for human interaction. Over and over it has been shown that people (especially today, vs. say 40 years ago) do NOT pay any attention to signs, online warnings, weather forecasts, etc.. But human contact seems to reach a lot of the people who ignore everything else.

Sierra is right. If he (or any of us for that matter) had been there, not necessarily to conduct a rescue, but just to provide human-to-human common sense advice, it might have made the difference.

But it seems that the "land managers" in NH, and certainly in NY, just don't want to pay for this. Was there a trailhead steward at the trailhead when Emily started her hike?

Yes, there is some effort to "dip a toe into this" but that's all. There are USFS "Volunteer" programs, short shifts, programs run by tiny underfunded mountaineering organizations and townships. Here in the Adirondacks, these programs are run by the 46ers, and Town of Keene. The state with its $230 Billion budget has yet to step up to the plate. Of course this is a recipe for continued failure. It's great that all these tiny organizations are trying to fill the gap, but you are not going adequately cover the need for human interaction at the trailhead without a properly funded, full time paid program.

Sadly, it seems like the "land managers" would rather just not address this.

 

[DayTrip]

Was there a trailhead steward at the trailhead when Emily started her hike?

Not sure about that specific day and this is purely my own observations but it seemed like there was a big push for trail head booths this year. I remember seeing them set up at Lafayette and Appalachia quite a bit, and not just for the big holidays. No idea if this was a USFS thing, volunteers, etc. I'm sure the locals on here could add some facts and info. I definitely noticed a difference. I would agree that this is probably the only way to reach people - catch them right at the point of attack.

 

[DayTrip]

I can view some of the FB 4K page and in general, the FB format is much more conducive to starting new questions.

Besides the obvious hysteria, misinformation and all around hate on these groups one of the biggest problems now is they are just too big. Back when I was still trying to follow and participate on the 4k pages the biggest obstacle was the sheer volume of posters. You'd see some misinformation, start typing a response and before you hit enter you were already 200 comments behind the conversation and your response was lost. So I'm not sure how effectively anyone can get anything across anymore.

I think maybe the only useful purpose to these groups now is getting info on a product or an trail condition. You can ask a question on something, say a stove you're looking at or whether a trail head is plowed or whatever, and get real time feedback from hundreds of people. I used to do this years back when I was still on there to get a consensus on items. It was pretty useful actually trying to identify issues with products that don't always show up in official gear reviews on manufacturer websites. With hundreds of comments hitting your question you see trends emerge - good and bad - rather quickly. If you actually paid attention to the forums you also knew which users actually knew what they were talking about and could trust the information better (just like what I've always done here with great success).

 

[hikerbrian]

My experience is that I am warm while ascending and don't get chilled until I either get to treeline and feel the windchill or get to a stable elevation or start descending. Someone who has little experience hiking in cold weather would not know that they should carry an extra layer for the descent.

That's what I was thinking too. Purely speculative on my part, but my guess is she was quite comfortable up to Greenleaf hut, maybe even sweaty. As she ascended above the hut, perhaps she began to realize conditions were not so good but figured she'd tag Lafayette and come back for Flume another time. Perhaps she even made it to the top of Lafayette, but as soon as she stopped the heavy exertion her body heat balance changed dramatically. Once she turned around the icy conditions and difficulty route-finding would have made for slow going, fully exposed to the elements, leaving her even more vulnerable to rapid heat loss. That's just one of many possibilities.

One other thing I was thinking about - it's really not the weather or forecast that is the issue. It's the differential between what the forecast calls for and what the hiker is wearing and packing, and how they're managing body heat. Conditions weren't THAT bad last weekend. They were just worse than what Emily was equipped and prepared for. It's just such a bummer all the way around, and I unfortunately don't expect this is the last time we have this discussion.

 

[Nessmuk]

i don't know if this applies to this particular case or not, but there is an effect called "paradoxical undressing" that may manifest during the latter stages of hyperthermia. I have been on a number of wilderness SAR incidents where the person was found by following a trail of discarded clothing in the woods. The subject has almost always been found deceased not far away. The most previous case i was on was just last month near Tupper Lake in the Adirondacks.

https://gizmodo.com/why-freezing-to-death-makes-you-want-to-get-naked-1688151366

 

[iAmKrzys]

I look at Facebook 4k group but rarely comment on it. Day Trip's comment on this group being very large (72k+ members) is spot on. I think in general Facebook is not a great medium for long in-depth discussions, it seems to be optimized to keep users glued to the screen, so new posts appear to get priority in user feeds and older posts tend to fade rather quickly with most users seeing them only once, unless they specifically look for an older post.

 

[TCD]

...it seems to be optimized to keep users glued to the screen...

Sorry this is off-topic, but: Of course it is. It's optimized to make money from advertisers. You are the product, not the customer.

 

[CaptCaper]

i don't know if this applies to this particular case or not, but there is an effect called "paradoxical undressing" that may manifest during the latter stages of hyperthermia. I have been on a number of wilderness SAR incidents where the person was found by following a trail of discarded clothing in the woods. The subject has almost always been found deceased not far away. The most previous case i was on was just last month near Tupper Lake in the Adirondacks.

https://gizmodo.com/why-freezing-to-death-makes-you-want-to-get-naked-1688151366

That article reminded me of my fellow Hippies at the Rock Festival OD tents. While on LSD etc they'd strip down to nothing and run off screaming etc.

All these deaths I've seen over the years I would of loved to hear all the details of them. Not to be morbid but to learn. What the person was like during hiking by hearing the friends and family. What they did have exactly that day on or in the packs. And other things Just to learn what ticks in these people to get into that situation of no return. Usually once found the main stream news just forgets it all. The only one a better picture I found was Kate. Only cause of the book published. And that did give me the information I was looking for. I was wondering why her PLB Res Q Link which we have threw pings over the mountain. The book showed the first ping was were she was but she had put it into her pack probably cause she wasn't going to carry that on her trying to survive. Putting that Res Q Link in the pack surely gave false pings all over that mountain.

 

[NHClimber]

Does F&G do an NTSB-like accident report? I’m embarrassed to say I’ve never looked. I agree that as tragic as these situations are, they should at least be something to learn from.

 

[iAmKrzys]

Does F&G do an NTSB-like accident report? I’m embarrassed to say I’ve never looked. I agree that as tragic as these situations are, they should at least be something to learn from.

I was actually thinking about adverse event analysis and how it compares to how plane accidents are handled. I guess in case of plane accidents there is a clear public interest in getting to the root cause and publishing the results as this can be used to make safety recommendations possibly resulting in many lives saved. In case of someone dying while hiking public interest is likely much more limited probably mostly focusing on the question of foul play, but once this is ruled out, I suspect that the agencies in charge will not commit significant resources (unless the case is high-profile for whatever reason) to investigate how exactly things unfolded.

What's been publicly disclosed so far in this case is not really much - some info on how she started her hike, a little bit on her equipment (although not much), and general description of where she was found along with some of her belongings. It's not clear to me if she had any gps-tracking enabled on her phone or a on separate gps device. A gps track would be very helpful in establishing a timeline and probably would take quite a bit of guesswork out of equation. Maybe there were some snow tracks that were identifiable?

At any rate, I suspect that even if F&G performs some deeper analysis, they are probably not likely to publish it. Perhaps this is to honor requests for privacy made by a victim family. Maybe someone closer to F&G can shed some light here.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

I was actually thinking about adverse event analysis and how it compares to how plane accidents are handled. I guess in case of plane accidents there is a clear public interest in getting to the root cause and publishing the results as this can be used to make safety recommendations possibly resulting in many lives saved. In case of someone dying while hiking public interest is likely much more limited probably mostly focusing on the question of foul play, but once this is ruled out, I suspect that the agencies in charge will not commit significant resources (unless the case is high-profile for whatever reason) to investigate how exactly things unfolded.

What's been publicly disclosed so far in this case is not really much - some info on how she started her hike, a little bit on her equipment (although not much), and general description of where she was found along with some of her belongings. It's not clear to me if she had any gps-tracking enabled on her phone or a on separate gps device. A gps track would be very helpful in establishing a timeline and probably would take quite a bit of guesswork out of equation. Maybe there were some snow tracks that were identifiable?

At any rate, I suspect that even if F&G performs some deeper analysis, they are probably not likely to publish it. Perhaps this is to honor requests for privacy made by a victim family. Maybe someone closer to F&G can shed some light here.

Per my posts number 36 and 38, we SAR volunteers are not allowed to post anything publicly more than what NH F&G posts, which from an educational perspective is a real shame. But I think that the astute group of posters on this thread has done a good job piecing things together for this sad event.

 

[Nessmuk]

Per my posts number 36 and 38, we SAR volunteers are not allowed to post anything publicly more than what NH F&G posts, which from an educational perspective is a real shame. But I think that the astute group of posters on this thread has done a good job piecing things together for this sad event.

I can confirm this is true of SAR volunteers in NY as well. Team members must take a training course by the NYSDEC which includes the admonition to not release any information we may have unofficially. I have been followed by the press right up to my initial entry into the beginning of my search block where they were told they must leave. For large or high profile campaign searches there should be an assigned public information officer to be directed to.

I have often wanted to see an after action report, for educational and training purposes, but that rarely happens unless I happen to talk to a ranger friend "off the record".

 

[JoshandBaron]

Not sure about that specific day and this is purely my own observations but it seemed like there was a big push for trail head booths this year. I remember seeing them set up at Lafayette and Appalachia quite a bit, and not just for the big holidays. No idea if this was a USFS thing, volunteers, etc. I'm sure the locals on here could add some facts and info. I definitely noticed a difference. I would agree that this is probably the only way to reach people - catch them right at the point of attack.

They have trailhead stewards at 5 trailheads on the forest on 3 season weekends. https://www.fs.usda.gov/main/whitemountain/workingtogether/volunteering

 

[NHClimber]

At any rate, I suspect that even if F&G performs some deeper analysis, they are probably not likely to publish it. Perhaps this is to honor requests for privacy made by a victim family. Maybe someone closer to F&G can shed some light here.

Well, if an objective is to educate future hikers of the perils of being underprepared, it would seem prudent to publish some form of synopsis of the factors that contributed to the tragedy. I didn't see much of anything published by F&G or the media -- her itinerary didn't even make sense (Lafy, Haystack, Flume). I did see that she appeared very lightly dressed and with some form of light footwear (perhaps trail running shoes). Maybe it is as simple as that. What is the Falling Waters loop? Like 8 miles? Been years since I've done it in the winter assuming that was the loop she was doing. I feel like with technical climbing accidents there is usually someone that publishes a more detailed description of what went wrong so that people can learn.

 

[peakbagger]

Appalachia used to provide clear and concise third party analysis of hiker accidents/fatalities. The reports appear to be available from Dartmouth 3 months after issue date as of 2021 https://www.outdoors.org/resources/...s-appalachia-journal-is-now-available-online/. My guess is the typical 20ish media savvy neophyte hiker would not even be aware of these reports or would feel they are applicable to their own situation as most would subscribe to the concept that they are immortal and therefore it would not happen to them.

Here is link to an AMC talk from earlier this year https://www.outdoors.org/resources/amc-outdoors/health-and-safety/summit-2022-accidents-report/ with examples. I expect that they can only publish what they can verify so if a family wants to keep the episode private, it would be more difficult to create an accurate report.

I do expect that there are detailed accident reports filled out by the Fish and Game Incident Commander given the potential for future litigation. A hiker who was rescued and charged by Fish and Game for a rescue had reported on VFTT that the rescue crew of F&G officers had asked a lot of questions of the hiker while hiking out that were later used as justification for charging for the rescue. The hiker elected not to challenge the charge. Apparently Miranda warnings are not required as its not a criminal charge rather it is an administrative charge. My guess would be a lawyer would advise anyone in this situation to not to speak without counsel present. Maybe someone with Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA) skills might be able to get access to a report but expect F&G probably has a way of firewalling the report?

 

[DayTrip]

They have trailhead stewards at 5 trailheads on the forest on 3 season weekends. https://www.fs.usda.gov/main/whitemountain/workingtogether/volunteering

Cool. I'm not losing my mind. Did this just start this year? I don't recall this much activity in prior years.

Hopefully it is the beginning of a bigger and more lasting effort. It really does seem like the only way to reach people. There is more than enough information out there on FB, websites, forums, signs, etc. if you want it. I think it is a lot more real when a uniformed F&G employee speaks directly to you about the stupidity of what you are about to do in the parking lot in real time.

 

[Rhody Seth]

Cool. I'm not losing my mind. Did this just start this year? I don't recall this much activity in prior years.

I've noticed them the last couple of years passing by the most popular trailheads. They seem like a good program that likely cuts off a lot of problems. But as we see from this incident - they have their limits. You start your hike in the "off-season" during the wee hours of the morn you are not going to find anyone preventing you from being your own worst enemy.

 

[DayTrip]

....you are not going to find anyone preventing you from being your own worst enemy.

I truly motivated person will always find a way to do what they want whether it makes sense or not. All we can hope to do is reduce the amount of bad outcomes. To quote Mark Twain: "It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so".

 

[peakbagger]

I was early at a trailhead one day waiting for a few folks on the first year of the program. There was a friendly volunteer from Michigan who did not know the WMNF that was obviously a bit bored of talking hiking so we were talking about a variety of subjects. He mentioned that it was sweet volunteer gig for him. He got a free campsite for the duration for just a few days of volunteering and had picked the WMNF as he had never been here. I established that I knew what I was doing and had the gear so he switched off his canned speech pretty quick. He and the others didnt try to force anyone to talk but were pretty good at starting a conversation and then doing education as needed. It was Champney Falls trailhead on a summer day so not a high risk trailhead. He told me that what they were trying to do is catch the newby's that could be steered in the right direction with a little bit of education. Not sure if the program and spiel has changed but when I start hiking in the AM the tent is still stowed behidn the trailhead sign and I only see them in the early afternoon when I am heading out. Hopefully on the OBP/Falling Waters loop they at least can dissuade folks from with little gear from heading up mid to late morning but I still get quite few questions when I am heading down Falling Waters above the stream crossings on how far to the summit. When I ask them which one of the three summits and they do not know I double my estimate.

My guess stationing someone farther in on the trails might help but do not expect a big decrease in rescues as the incidence is already quite low for the number of hikers on the trails.