On helping unprepared hikers, group hikes, and hike leadership

[B the Hiker]

I stayed up at last night rather than deal with traffic, and did a hop up Mt. Jackson in the morning before driving home. It rained lightly this morning and the ground was soaked; all the rocks were wet. Jackson was in a cloud, with moderate winds. Needed nothing more than my wicking t-shirt.

On the way up I passed a family of three. Husband and wife, I would say mid-forties, and father, maybe early seventies. All in cotton. Bright white, clean sneakers.

Clearly non-hikers, out on vacation.

Okay, so I pass them, summit, and on the way down, they ask me how long to the summit. I told them still a while, maybe a half hour, and when they got to the scrambling, they would know they were close. Also told them the rocks still afforded good footing, as long as one respected them. I gave them directions on how to get to the real summit. Told them slow and steady...

They didn't know there was a scramble.

I had a think. All in cotton, clearly unable to do the scramble. Might freak out at the summit. Could easily lose the way back down. On the other hand, I figured they wouldn't be able to get themselves into trouble anyhow.

If they had shown up for an AMC hike looking like they were (well, they wouldn't have gotten through screening, but just go with it), I would have turned them around.

Looking back on it, I wished I had said something.


Brian

 

[erugs]

I've become more outspoken, not in a dictatorial way, I hope, but I think I would rather annoy them than feel guilty later for not having said anything. Last fall we passed a family group of three going up Dublin on Monadnock. They were less than half way up. We summited, hung around for quite a long time, then saw them still coming up near where the Marlboro Trail meets Dublin. I asked the woman if they had flashlights. She said no. I told her that concerned me because we had passed them on the way up and here they were still making their way, and that we were expecting to get back to our car after the sun had set. Her answer? Well we had taken a long break. I shook my head and went on my way. Theirs was the only car left in the lot when we drove away.

 

[TCD]

That's another use for the cheap headlamps I buy from Walmart or Sportsman's Guide. More than once I've given one away - "Here, keep this; it was cheap and I have several, and you might need it." I usually carry three; they're so light I don't even notice them.

 

[erugs]

That's another use for the cheap headlamps I buy from Walmart or Sportsman's Guide. More than once I've given one away - "Here, keep this; it was cheap and I have several, and you might need it." I usually carry three; they're so light I don't even notice them.

You are very nice! I've thought of doing that and now I will with the days getting dark earlier.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I've become more outspoken, not in a dictatorial way, I hope, but I think I would rather annoy them than feel guilty later for not having said anything. Last fall we passed a family group of three going up Dublin on Monadnock. They were less than half way up. We summited, hung around for quite a long time, then saw them still coming up near where the Marlboro Trail meets Dublin. I asked the woman if they had flashlights. She said no. I told her that concerned me because we had passed them on the way up and here they were still making their way, and that we were expecting to get back to our car after the sun had set. Her answer? Well we had taken a long break. I shook my head and went on my way. Theirs was the only car left in the lot when we drove away.

A way I've found, after engaging someone in conversation is to ask them if they have a cell phone, pointing out that some light is usually available from even the most basic cell phones upon opening the case. That way you tactfully point out your concern about their getting down safely without being too heavy-handed.

For the past couple of years Home Depot has also sold blister packs of headlamps (3 or 4 if memory serves) for $10 beginning around Thanksgiving. These make good "why don't you take this just in case" types of trail magic presents for those you fear may be especially "clueless".

Regardless, there's always a fine line between being helpful and appearing condescending.

 

[TJsName]

Regardless, there's always a fine line between being helpful and appearing condescending.

Yes indeed. I take a similar approach if I'm worried about a group. I usually try to get their itinerary, and remember what they are wearing in case they don't show up. I feel as though I typically see more people that are 'over prepared' struggling up the mountain later in the afternoon.

I did have an experience hiker friend miss the turn for Square Ledge coming back from Passaconaway. She was surprised when she asked someone where she was to learn that she was on 'Hedgehog'. Turned out there are two Hedgehogs within a couple miles of one another.

 

[iagreewithjamie]

I always carry a cheap headlamp as both a backup to my Black Diamond Storm and as a potential give-away. I was doing a Jefferson-Adams loop, and passed a guy just past Jefferson. I was going to Adams, he was going down. I hit the Adams's, and caught up to this same dude about 1 mile from the end in the dark. Gave him my headlight, but you would've thought I'd saved his life. I doubt I'll ever see someone so happy over a $10 gift ever again.

I don't think I've ever had to go out of my way to warn someone that they were underprepared. Even when day-hiking, I always carry my 65-liter pack because its so darn comfy. I tie it down to a good 20-liters to save space... but it still looks like I'm out there for the long haul even if its a day hike. Every hike I've been on (or most, anyway), someone always asks me how long I've been out there, how far I'm going, why I have so much gear, etc. Usually I reply that I'm only out for a dayhike, but always carry extra supplies to help out unprepared hikers; then there comes this sucken hopeless look in their face that says "Crap. i shoulda brought more gear". Well, that's at least how it always plays out in winter: in the summer time, I usually get a "good luck to you buddy" before the flatlanders tear off down the trail in their soaking wet t-shirts.

 

[Maineman]

I love the idea of carrying headlamps to share, I always carry a spare.

People have a right to make bad decisions, suffer a bit and maybe learn from their mistakes. As a fat guy who likes to night hike (wearing sneakers & an ultralight backpack) I have been on the receiving end of "the inquisition" from people who speak to me like I have not in fact hiked thousands of miles over the last ten years. I don't appreciate others asking me in rapid succession "where are you going, where did you start, where are you camping, etc."

Any one of us who has been at this for a while have likely made less than stellar decisions at some point & lived to tell the tale. So I try and be diplomatic. You can't judge a book by it's cover friends. I do agree that handing out a headlamp or offering some water or food is wholly appropriate.

 

[Greg YEAH!]

I don't question peoples abilities on the trail anymore. We heard a kid (in his low 20's) at the Zealand Hut a couple of weeks ago saying he was doing the hut-to-hut traverse and wasn't carrying any water to save the weight. I didn't say a word.

Adults should be old enough to know better. The sun has been rising and setting around the same times for the last 100 years. It isn't some new phenomenon that it gets dark earlier in the fall and winter and stays lighter later in the summer time.

 

[TJsName]

I've also given away my cheapo headlamp. Never turned anyone around, but we actually did un-turn someone around (he was worried about the snow and had turned around, but he was actually fine to keep going). He hiked with us for the rest of the day.

I've been known to accept food from people while hiking. I don't think it's because they thought I was unprepared, I think they figured if they gave it to me I would eat it.

 

[summitseeker]

I love the idea of carrying headlamps to share, I always carry a spare.

People have a right to make bad decisions, suffer a bit and maybe learn from their mistakes. As a fat guy who likes to night hike (wearing sneakers & an ultralight backpack) I have been on the receiving end of "the inquisition" from people who speak to me like I have not in fact hiked thousands of miles over the last ten years. I don't appreciate others asking me in rapid succession "where are you going, where did you start, where are you camping, etc."

Any one of us who has been at this for a while have likely made less than stellar decisions at some point & lived to tell the tale. So I try and be diplomatic. You can't judge a book by it's cover friends. I do agree that handing out a headlamp or offering some water or food is wholly appropriate.

I know that there is a fine line one must tip-toe between tact and a stern overt warning but I would rather be 'told off' than know I let someone get into a situation they may never live to learn from.

I recently caught up with a mentor of mine who had done an extensive hiking trip across Europe only to succumb to a virus on a bushwhack near the Hancocks. He didn't have a knife, or a headlamp, and minimal food. He too was deluded by the comfort of making it through so many hikes with bare essentials and nearly didn't make it out. His wife wrapped him in a space blanket and put down some pine boughs to insulate him from the cold ground. The story ended well but people shouldn't take offense when others are looking out for them. In my opinion, minimal gear and overconfidence can get even the most experienced hiker into serious trouble. No one can control the weather and even as fast as I feel with a light pack I can't outrun the sun or an impending, sudden storm.

If one packs a little more at least their confidence can be supported by the knowledge they have enough to get through an unexpected crisis.

Take care,

Z

 

[billski]

There are a lot of people who want to go for a hike, and many would probably go on a group hike, if offered. By the time they get on the trail and realize what they should have brought, it's too late. I'm going to discount the macho-macho-i-can-do-anything-self-assured individuals.

If money were no object, I would love to see the NFS and/or WMNF offer guided hikes to the peaks. A dream for another day, so I'm trying it myself. I've been leading some hikes on the meetup groups since last year. I stuck my neck out and posted one on the Boston Hiking MUG. What an education! A lot of people in the Boston group (singles mostly) are super enthusiastic but have no clue what they are getting themselves into. Some are quite informed, most are not. The trip maxed out a 20 in 30 minutes. It now has a wait list of 19 additional. I didn't want to go for 20, but I was feeling sorry for them. Now I feel sorry for me, but I may have some help.

What's rough about the AMC courses is that they are far away and take more time then people are willing to commit to.

Regarding packs, even when I'm not leading, I carry a pretty hefty load. I have used everything in my pack at one point or another. I'm a walking ambulance.

Anyways that's my $0.02. I like the way this thread is going...

Why did I say all this? 'Cause reading a book or going to a class just ain't happening for the casual hiker. I have been peppering my hikes with gentle guidance and advice, but in the end I let them draw their own conclusions. I don't get preachy about it.

I bring maps for everyone. I teach them how to use a compass and map. But I sprinkle all this stuff gently in around the trail, the vistas and the conversation. Maybe it will plant a seed or two. Maybe they'll share it with others. Maybe not. It beats pure ignorance.

 

[Tom13]

Two Octobers ago I ran into a guy on Gulfside about halfway between Edmands and Adams around dusk. Seeming slightly confused while looking at his map, I asked if he was OK. He told me he was planning to stay at Madison Hut. I was pretty amazed since the hut had been closed for weeks. So I gave him a light, and redirected him to Grey Knob. I got about 50 feet away and turned to see him still standing in the middle of the trail looking at the map. I walked back and asked if he wanted to follow me to the Perch, and he could spend the night in the shelter. He did, and seemed quite grateful.

The night was in the upper 20's, with a rain/snow mix with a half inch of slush in the morning. No light. No shelter.

My point is, he did not seem inclined to ask for help, but when offered he did not hesitate to accept. I believe that the situation dictates the level of help offered, but in the end it is only offered, and there is no harm in that IMHO.

 

[Will]

he did not seem inclined to ask for help, but when offered he did not hesitate to accept. I believe that the situation dictates the level of help offered, but in the end it is only offered, and there is no harm in that

Every once in a great while, in the midst of the vast wasteland of nonsense that is the internet, you run across a bit of comment that makes sense.

Thanks.

 

[erugs]

I love the idea of carrying headlamps to share, I always carry a spare.

People have a right to make bad decisions, suffer a bit and maybe learn from their mistakes. As a fat guy who likes to night hike (wearing sneakers & an ultralight backpack) I have been on the receiving end of "the inquisition" from people who speak to me like I have not in fact hiked thousands of miles over the last ten years. I don't appreciate others asking me in rapid succession "where are you going, where did you start, where are you camping, etc."

Any one of us who has been at this for a while have likely made less than stellar decisions at some point & lived to tell the tale. So I try and be diplomatic. You can't judge a book by it's cover friends. I do agree that handing out a headlamp or offering some water or food is wholly appropriate.

After reading this, I thought of how much we tend to follow "norms" in society. Some might feel like real hikers because they went to an EMS or REI, and they would look the part. When we break from the norm, or what others are expecting, for whatever reason, we should also not be surprised when we are questioned. It comes with the territory. Reminds me of a poem by Charlotte Perkins Gilman titled "An Obstacle" about overcoming what we think we see. I won't type out the whole thing, but here is the first verse: "I was climbing up a mountain path/With many things to do/Important business of my own/And other people's too/When I ran against a Prejudice/That quite cut off the view." I'm hoping to learn more about speaking my mind in the kindest, most non-judgmental way possible.

 

[dug]

Curious on everyone's reactions if they saw someone walking along in the vicinity of Edmunds Col in shorts, a t-shirt, hat, sandels, a Camelback, and carrying a beer would've been?

 

[erugs]

Would have said hi, how are you, where are you going. The rest depends upon what the day/time/weather was like.

I saw two guys carrying big knives in cases attached to their packs, and then noticed one had a hand gun in a holster strapped around his waste and secured to his thigh. I commented on it and he told me I'd be surprised at how many people were "carrying" in the mountains. I didn't say anything against what he was carrying, just that it seemed like unnecessary weight. A woman with the duo was on ahead a bit banging rocks apart to see if she could find any quartz crystals. Now, if they had started target practice, I might have called authorities.

 

[MadRiver]

Curious on everyone's reactions if they saw someone walking along in the vicinity of Edmunds Col in shorts, a t-shirt, hat, sandels, a Camelback, and carrying a beer would've been?

So that was you!

 

[Maineman]

After reading this, I thought of how much we tend to follow "norms" in society. Some might feel like real hikers because they went to an EMS or REI, and they would look the part. When we break from the norm, or what others are expecting, for whatever reason, we should also not be surprised when we are questioned. It comes with the territory.

I'm hoping to learn more about speaking my mind in the kindest, most non-judgmental way possible.

Great, thoughtful response - Live free or die!

 

[Red Oak]

Would have said hi, how are you, where are you going. The rest depends upon what the day/time/weather was like.

I saw two guys carrying big knives in cases attached to their packs, and then noticed one had a hand gun in a holster strapped around his waste and secured to his thigh. I commented on it and he told me I'd be surprised at how many people were "carrying" in the mountains. I didn't say anything against what he was carrying, just that it seemed like unnecessary weight. A woman with the duo was on ahead a bit banging rocks apart to see if she could find any quartz crystals. Now, if they had started target practice, I might have called authorities.

Very normal for people to be packing up north.Just a little historic continuity really.Surprised how many people do not open carry in our beloved streets of nh.Now quartz person,thats weird.[personally I do not carry.its not for me but live and let live].In general as I get older I tend to let things go more as far as telling people what is up.Last year hiking up Pierce I was concerned about a party who was making horribly slow progress on a couple hour hike.I voiced my concerns when I got back to the highland center that these people were looking at getting in after dark and it was lightly snowing.The response I got was very disappointing. I never saw anything in the news so that was that.Did I waste my time or clear my conscience?