Pemi Flood Alert (10/25/09)

[Waumbek]

Post title should be 10/25/09 but no way to edit....

The heavy rain of yesterday appears to be over but south of here the Pemi is still working to disgorge it all. The "Wilderness's" Pemi will still be high if not in flood stage.

NWS Alert:

Issued by The National Weather Service
Portland, ME
3:51 am EDT, Sun., Oct. 25, 2009

... FLOOD WARNING EXTENDED UNTIL THIS AFTERNOON... THE FLOOD WARNING CONTINUES FOR THE PEMIGEWASSET RIVER AT PLYMOUTH. * FROM THIS MORNING UNTIL THIS AFTERNOON. * AT 3 AM SUNDAY THE STAGE WAS 10.4 FEET. * FLOOD STAGE IS 13.0 FEET. * FORECAST TO RISE ABOVE FLOOD STAGE BY THIS MORNING AND CONTINUE TO RISE TO NEAR 13.3 FEET LATER THIS MORNING. THE RIVER WILL FALL BELOW FLOOD STAGE BY THIS AFTERNOON.

More Information
... THE FLOOD WARNING IS CANCELLED FOR THE FOLLOWING RIVERS IN NEW HAMPSHIRE... PEMIGEWASSET RIVER AT WOODSTOCK AFFECTING GRAFTON COUNTY

... THE FLOOD WARNING CONTINUES FOR THE FOLLOWING RIVERS IN NEW HAMPSHIRE PEMIGEWASSET RIVER AT PLYMOUTH AFFECTING GRAFTON COUNTY

 

[Mohamed Ellozy]

Obviously the high water warning extends to stream crossings on hiking trails ...

 

[NewHampshire]

The Saco early yesterday afternoon was already surging pretty high. I can only imagine what the Pemi looks like right now!

Brian

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Lincoln:

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nh/nwis/uv/?site_no=01074520&PARAmeter_cd=00065,00060

Went from 4.5 feet to 10 feet, 110 cfps to 5000 cfps.

Plymouth:

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/uv?site_no=01076500

Went from 1 foot to 11 feet, 450 cfps to over 15,000 cfps.

Tim

 

[TDawg]

Crested below 12 feet and dropping. No flood in Plymouth.

 

[grouseking]

Crested below 12 feet and dropping. No flood in Plymouth.

Looks like the cars at the pe center will be safe for now. That was a bad flood that year...Dec 2003.

 

[dug]

Looks like the cars at the pe center will be safe for now. That was a bad flood that year...Dec 2003.

I don't know about 2003, but in 1987 we canoed down to the bridge that rte. 93 goes over and were caught on some station's news helicopter.

 

[TDawg]

I don't know about 2003, but in 1987 we canoed down to the bridge that rte. 93 goes over and were caught on some station's news helicopter.

IIRC, 1987 is the highest marked flood on the side of the Mobil station across from the PE center in Holderness. Must of been one hell of an event.

I know a guy who lost a car in an April 2002 flood I think it was, didn't wake up for the call to move his car (drunk? ). Found it the next day up past the windows in river water.

 

[carla]

yes, and two hikers were trapped because of the flooding--safe now

From Boston.com

"Two hikers are safe and sound after spending the night in the White Mountain National Forest in New Hampshire because of high waters."


http://www.boston.com/news/local/ne..._found_safe_in_nh_wilderness/?s_campaign=8315

 

[eddie]

"Two hikers are safe and sound after spending the night in the White Mountain National Forest in New Hampshire because of high waters."

Any details on where and what brook they couldn't cross?

 

[OldMan]

From Boston.com

"Two hikers are safe and sound after spending the night in the White Mountain National Forest in New Hampshire because of high waters."


http://www.boston.com/news/local/ne..._found_safe_in_nh_wilderness/?s_campaign=8315

Rocket21 and I saw the search and rescue team at Lincoln Woods at 8:00 this morning on our way to do a Liberty Flume traverse. The Pemi was running verrrry fast. I would not have wanted to be crossing it today.

 

[Mohamed Ellozy]

Rocket21 and I saw the search and rescue team at Lincoln Woods at 8:00 this morning on our way to do a Liberty Flume traverse

Just curious ... how was the Liberty Spring Trail stream crossing?

 

[OldMan]

Just curious ... how was the Liberty Spring Trail stream crossing?

It was fine. We hiked from the Basin bushwack up Liberty Springs. The trail was wet and muddy in places but the stream crossings were all easily rock hopped.

 

[pedxing]

Any details on where and what brook they couldn't cross?

Monica was planning on hiking Owl's Head - not sure where they couldn't cross. I'm not sure if she posts here - but maybe someone will relay a report or provide more info.

 

[mahony]

OOPs

I came down from Owls Head on Saturday Morning and saw 2 women going up. I assume it was the 2 "lost" people. I was startled because I thought "who is crazy enough to do this in the rain?" The upper river crossings near OH were not bad, but I avoided all of the lower crossings by the bushwhacks to and from Black Pond and Franconia Falls.

The 2 looked reasonably prepared...at least they had traction to climb the slide, which was slick with snow from Friday Night. I'm not sure why they hadn't planned for high river crossings...it poured the whole time they were walking in.

 

[MichaelJ]

So is that reckless behavior? Negligent?

 

[Mike P.]

Reckless? I don't know if I'd go that far. (In one of the October heavy rainfalls a couple of years back I did the same thing but I bushwhacked back to Franconia falls - I was solo, I might call my choice of crossing the streams to get to Owls head that day as reckless)

If you did not want to cross the streams, you could do the bushwhacks, I assume they were not aware of them or don't feel comfortable bushwhacking. It wasn't cold, so a night out wasn't painful, (or fatal).

If you had gear to help you through a warm October Night & were not savvy in off-trail travel, it may have been more prudent (once they made the decision to cross when heavy rain was falling & predicted for several hours) to spend the night near the trail Vs. heading off into the woods.

Sounds like SAR found them quickly & fairly easily, even if fined, the cost of this search sound pretty minimal.

In this & the more infamous Spring SAR case, the hiker(s) did not "need" to be rescued but they were later than their families (or friends) expected & it was people at home who called SAR. (leaving information with someone at home is what a responsible hiker is supposed to do)

Being 12 hours overdue & 3 days overdue on a day-hike, IMO are not the same thing.

 

[Maddy]

So is that reckless behavior? Negligent?

I have to vote yes because there were flood warnings and rain.
They took a chance and got in "over their heads" quite literally. They needed a rescue. If Scott is fined, so should these two unfortunate people.
I would vote for negligent if warnings were posted prior to their hike.

 

[pedxing]

Reckless - I'd say definitely not. Reckless might have been plunging into a swollen and fast moving stream instead of stopping and waiting. So long as they were prepared to wait out a night (and I believe they were, as they seem to have suffered no ill effects) they did not put themselves in any danger. They did not need to be rescued. They were safe. I've definitely gone out in nasty conditions when I did not feel there was a significant threat to my safety.

They did create a situation which required rescue, since no one involved in the rescue knew they were safe. I don't know what warnings were out on the morning on the 24th, but negligent seems like a strong word. They didn't put themselves in danger. Clearly they made a mistake. While the consequences of this mistake exceeded any mistake I have made so far in my hikes, I think I have made bigger mistakes and more foolish ones. My hat is off to anyone who hasn't.

Disclaimer: I might be a little biased because I've hiked with Monica and consider her a friend, but I think if she'd made a mistake I thought was reckless or negligent that I'd be comfortable acknowledging the recklessness while defending her in other ways such as saying it was very much unlike her to do this.

 

[mahony]

So I'm struggling with this myself....I don't think they were negligent or reckless. As I said earlier they looked to be prepared for the conditions....conditions I too was experiencing. The only real difference it seems is that they had told someone that they would be back by a certain time. I was out for the weekend so no one expected me.

SAR was called and someone has to pay for that, but calling the hikers negligent or reckless just doesn't fit the circumstance. Who pays for SAR is a whole other discussion. Others on this board have said "well just don't ever call SAR for me" and I have to think that in many cases this would be the best answer. BUT should we really create an atmosphere of "don't call SAR" and end up with people who should have?

It seems that one way or another the most important thing (in this case) is to let someone know that we are OK, but delayed. I'm just not sure how to accomplish that.

I guess I'll keep my hiking plans with a days worth of leeway...just in case.