Private Campgrounds can be open in NH

[peakbagger]

I was not aware that private campgrounds can be open currently in NH.The USFS and State of NH campgrounds are closed but private campgrounds can be open.Some towns are questioning this https://www.unionleader.com/news/he...cle_c3ff45f9-ad14-5282-98a9-fbbfa214ccec.html

Many resort towns require a 14 day quarantine for anyone coming from an area with active Corona Virus. Hard to envision 14 day quarantining in a camper with or without a hookup.

 

[NHClimber]

This does seem odd to me. Not sure what the rationale would be to permit them to open.

 

[Tom Rankin]

This does seem odd to me. Not sure what the rationale would be to permit them to open.

Economics....

 

[ChrisB]

I was not aware that private campgrounds can be open currently in NH.The USFS and State of NH campgrounds are closed but private campgrounds can be open.Some towns are questioning this https://www.unionleader.com/news/he...cle_c3ff45f9-ad14-5282-98a9-fbbfa214ccec.html

Many resort towns require a 14 day quarantine for anyone coming from an area with active Corona Virus. Hard to envision 14 day quarantining in a camper with or without a hookup.

I think in NH it is common for folks without means to live in campgrounds during the warmer months.

 

[sierra]

I think in NH it is common for folks without means to live in campgrounds during the warmer months.

Some have the means and do it anyway. They live in the South all winter, then come back for the summer.

 

[NHClimber]

If it's economics, seems like an odd choice to jump start the economy.

 

[peakbagger]

If you look at the maps of CV-19 cases in NH there is a pretty distinct split between the more urban counties along the Mass border and the rest of the state. There are only two areas where community transmission has been identified. The campgrounds tend to be in the rural areas where new cases have been relatively static for a few weeks and the local vulnerable populations are in self quarantine so even if there are carriers fleeing the cities they dont have a lot of potential to get at the local population.

Room and meals tax tied to tourism is major revenue to NH since there is no state income tax. Its mud season now with black flies soon to make an appearence but the state is desperate to salvage what they can of the tourism season. Bike Week is the unofficial start of the season and I expect there is desperation in the Lakes Region to pull that off.

 

[NHClimber]

According to an article today in the Conway Daily Sun, they are open because they are outdoors and there typically is distance between camp sites. In any event, pretty much all the local authorities and first responders are heavily petitioning the state to reverse the decision and close them.

 

[Mike P.]

If you look at the maps of CV-19 cases in NH there is a pretty distinct split between the more urban counties along the Mass border and the rest of the state. There are only two areas where community transmission has been identified. The campgrounds tend to be in the rural areas where new cases have been relatively static for a few weeks and the local vulnerable populations are in self quarantine so even if there are carriers fleeing the cities they dont have a lot of potential to get at the local population.

Room and meals tax tied to tourism is major revenue to NH since there is no state income tax. Its mud season now with black flies soon to make an appearence but the state is desperate to salvage what they can of the tourism season. Bike Week is the unofficial start of the season and I expect there is desperation in the Lakes Region to pull that off.

This will be interesting as we have more protest going on and a CT layer in Fairfield County, where the bulk of CT's cases are, filing a suit against Gov. Lamont saying his Executive Orders are unconstitutional. In yesterday's Hartford Courant, we had 12 pages of Obits & that does not include Fairfield County. I knew two people in Sunday's paper who died from Covid-19. Both in their 90's, one a classmate's father who drove me to Soccer camp decades ago & my first manager in an office environment. I suspect that Bike Week will have no one social distancing, looking to pack bars and restaurants and few wearing masks when not riding. I'll be shocked if we don't have a second wave causing another closure. (Dr. Pessimist signing off)

 

[B the Hiker]

Hard to envision 14 day quarantining in a camper with or without a hookup.

Agreed. The owner of one campground that is open is only taking in "seasonal"--that is, folks who are there for whole summer--campers. She claimed they aren't communicating with anyone else for two weeks.

I live near a seasonal campground; it's all retirees who are there for the summer. Some of them have built fancy decks and even plant gardens, but those trailers aren't that big. They don't have extensive kitchens or big freezers. I suspect those folks go to the grocery store quite often, just out of boredom if nothing else. Two weeks in a camper with no buying of milk, cheese, yogurt, bread, veggies or fruit? I am skeptical.

The thing is, no one knows who is a carrier and who is not, and it only takes one person to go into a store and infect two others, and that's how the thing spirals.

My work is closed, and I would love to be up in New Hampshire right now! But I'm not going, and that's it. Connecticut has over 800 miles of hiking trails, so it's not like those of us not in New Hampshire are for want of places to go outdoors.

 

[ChrisB]

So, now that we've normalized rate by density, do we have any outliers? Nothing massive, but Carroll, Grafton, and Rockingham all have higher rates given their density than other counties, while Coos, Belknap, Straffod, and Sullivan have lower rates. The trend is linear, which suggests that as density increases, you can expect an increased infection rate of about 27.6 cases per 100,000 people per square mile (a weird metric, I know - sometimes 'normalizing' makes things weird).

I wonder what the infection rates for these counties would have looked like if normal travel and visitations had not been preempted by the stay-at-home orders.

For example, if N Conway, the Lakes Region or great North Woods saw their typical amount of March visitors without limitations, what would infection rates be for these tourist-destination counties? A lot higher is my guess. And that I suppose is the point of stay-at-home.

Now we have people dressing up like wannabe-soldiers and demanding sanctions be lifted and their "rights" returned to them.

No end to the weirdness caused by this pandemic.

 

[jniehof]

\There are only two areas where community transmission has been identified.

The updates I'm getting from the city (which I think are mostly compiled from NHDHHS) have been saying "Community-based transmission continues to increase in the state and has been identified in all counties with cases" for a couple of days now.

 

[Tom_Murphy]

Feel free to provide any feedback or suggestions, or ask any questions.

View attachment 6387

Ssshhh, you will wake the Quants.

 

[peakbagger]

The updates I'm getting from the city (which I think are mostly compiled from NHDHHS) have been saying "Community-based transmission continues to increase in the state and has been identified in all counties with cases" for a couple of days now.

I looked around on the DHHS site and could nor find any statistics on community transmission by county. The latest report https://www.dhhs.nh.gov/dphs/cdcs/covid19/covid-weekly-report-04132020.pdf does not cover this statistic. I keep an eye on Coos and of two cases, the Whitefield case was three plus weeks ago and the Randolph case was two weeks ago (and most likely an import). If either one of the cases were from community contact from outside the county, they would be reported as a community contact case who happens to live in the county even though the contact occurred elsewhere. Semantics means a lot these days and I have no doubt that public leaders are trying to use it to their advantage to encourage policies in place.

 

[skiguy]

All fine to make predictions and assumptions on data. But let’s remember this is the reported data. Numbers are most definitely higher as many folks are carriers or mildly symptomatic and are not in the data base. Until we have widespread reliable testing we will never really know what is for sure. If you are going to travel and stay in a campground there should be mandatory testing beforehand to affirm you are not infected.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

So are you saying the virus spreads based on

1. How dense the population is
2. How dense the population is

Tim

 

[skiguy]

The lack of testing and the emerging confirmation about asymptomatic people (upwards of 50%) are huge caveats, yes. If we assume that the asymptomatic spread is consistent and correlated to the confirmed cases, then the ratios would hold (but the rates would go up, and likely waaaaaay up). The only silver lining to the asymptomatic issue (given that most areas of the country haven't had their health systems overrun - at least not yet) is that we might end up with a lot more people with immunity than we would have expected. That said, if the infection rate in NH right now is just over 0.1%, so even if the true rate is 50 times higher, that's still only 5% of the population (so far).

I agree that people going to live at a campground should isolate for 14 days and bring 2 weeks worth of food with them. If they have their own bathroom and water set-ups, they should be fine. After that, they can be considered part of the community. If someone needs to use common facilities to stay at a campground, they should not go. We'll see what the private campgrounds end up doing (if they decide to open, and what restrictions they put in place).

The active part of this quote is "If we assume". These are just that assumptions based on inconclusive data. For instance "we might land up with a lot more people with immunity than we expected". IMO until that is proven and lets hope it does. Making assumptions on again inconclusive data is a very slippery slope. For instance do we really know that someone isolating for 14 days is long enough being effective in ridding oneself of the virus and/or not infecting others. Not to mention that even if you are symptom free for 14 days does that mean you still can not contract the virus. Once again based on those assumptions we have now rationalized folks coming to campgrounds and isolating are now safe members of the community. Even if self contained for 14 days in a campground there will be a lot of waste accumulated. Where is all that sewage and waste which is potentially infected with the Virus going to be disposed of? Let's hope in the coming weeks we do get some firm answers to the many questions that still remain. In the meantime let's go with what seems to be flatting the curve already.

 

[peakbagger]

My speculation is hiking will be opening up more broadly sooner than restaurants and bars. There is pretty good research that AC systems tend to distribute the airborne droplets. Healthcare and public facilities tend to have UVC systems to prevent airborne pathogens but a typical commercial unit will not. NH dodged a bullet when they closed down the bars and restaurants down a few days before St Patrick's day. Mass was already closed and folks from Mass were planning to head north. I suspect some NH bars were stocking up in anticipation of a banner night. My bet it hikers should drag out the coolers and plan to tailgate.

 

[Mike P.]

My speculation is hiking will be opening up more broadly sooner than restaurants and bars. There is pretty good research that AC systems tend to distribute the airborne droplets. Healthcare and public facilities tend to have UVC systems to prevent airborne pathogens but a typical commercial unit will not. NH dodged a bullet when they closed down the bars and restaurants down a few days before St Patrick's day. Mass was already closed and folks from Mass were planning to head north. I suspect some NH bars were stocking up in anticipation of a banner night. My bet it hikers should drag out the coolers and plan to tailgate.

Was discussing with my 17 year old today and his thought is that all trailheads are busy. As members on VFTT tend to be more aware of more remote places, we should be able to adjust. The most crowded summits and trails on Saturdays will be almost like being in a crowded bar or restaurant. As our southern brethren are opening their states, I've not seen anything on whether the ATC is looking at having thru-hikers start their march north.

Crowded congested places are still places I want to avoid, all mass transit, churches, restaurants, bars, sporting events, etc. Maybe this is the year to go to a Tampa Ray's or Marlin's game, social distancing made easy.

 

[DayTrip]

My speculation is hiking will be opening up more broadly sooner than restaurants and bars.

I hope that is soon. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that being out in the fresh air and sun exposure are very helpful against the virus (and as we also know our mental state) so giving people more options again is sorely needed. In my neck of the woods they're closing all these options and threatening arrest and fines just for sitting in your car in the parking lot at a park or outdoor location. I'm getting to the point where I could bushwhack in the dark without a light or a compass at my local hiking spot. Need some new options!