Proposal to have NY section of VFTT?

[BorealChickadee]

When this thread first started I really didn't care one way or the other if NY was split off since I use the New Post button. There are two thoughts that have come to mind since then and they're convincing me to say don't split NY away from NE.

First, is the sense of community mentioned above. My using the New Posts button lets me see a nice cross section. That's where I learned that Tom and Field are a great place to see gray jays. I haven't been there yet, but so what. I've learned about what the Whites are really like through other's posts. I haven't been there yet, but it's sort of like virtual hiking. I 've learned that huts are like hotels, not at all like leantos. I guess I'm saying that anything that keeps hikers together is good. Yeah it's a pain in the neck when you haven't been on in a while but that is also where putting the state location in your thread title could help. So that was a really good suggestion.

Second, is Darren's sense of commitment to the continuation of this board. I don't know much about forum boards having become computer literate just a few years ago but it seems to me that 13 years is a long time to last. Keeping the areas together has lasted this long and passed the test of time.

If it splits, it won't affect my use because I use the New Posts button and I've learned that I really like to learn about NH.(Don't mean to sound like I'm slighting Maine, because I already always read about Maine because I go there each summer.)

And just a general comment about the three forums as I know there are people reading this thread from all three. Each forum has its own strengths and weaknesses. Each has something to offer. None can become the other without losing its own identity, and that would be a tragic loss to the hiking community. It's the contribution of all participants that give a forum it's strength.

 

[kwc]

And just a general comment about the three forums as I know there are people reading this thread from all three. Each forum has its own strengths and weaknesses. Each has something to offer. None can become the other without losing its own identity, and that would be a tragic loss to the hiking community. It's the contribution of all participants that give a forum it's strength.

couldn't have said it any better ...

 

[Peakbagr]

This thread is not about helping, supporting, aiding, or taking away from the other hiking forums. This is about the health of VFTT.
There is a drastic drop in quality posts and activity by NY posters here. I am friends with both of the owners of the other forums and neither feel threatened by what we're proposing here.
My concern is trying to turn that around the decline in posts brought about by existing members who feel frustrated that their posts get swallowed here.You might be surprised at how many members from those forums have been asking for this over a long period of time.
Having a Q&A New England and a Q&A New York is not the demise of the other two boards. They attract members who will continue to post there but will begin posting here again.

At to the community feel, there are many numerous subforums here where NY members will continue to post.

 

[BorealChickadee]

This thread is not about helping, supporting, aiding, or taking away from the other hiking forums. This is about the health of VFTT.
There is a drastic drop in quality posts and activity by NY posters here. I am friends with both of the owners of the other forums and neither feel threatened by what we're proposing here.
My concern is trying to turn that around the decline in posts brought about by existing members who feel frustrated that their posts get swallowed here.You might be surprised at how many members from those forums have been asking for this over a long period of time.
Having a Q&A New England and a Q&A New York is not the demise of the other two boards. They attract members who will continue to post there but will begin posting here again.

At to the community feel, there are many numerous subforums here where NY members will continue to post.

Alan, my last few sentences were to stem off exactly your comment. Sorry you took it exactly opposite of what it was meant to be. Apparently I wasn't clear in my message and my apologies for that. I added it on as a show of support to all three forums, including this one.
(Sorry, Boreal - missed it completely - Peakbagr)
If I were to predict the future, I would think that splitting off NY from NE here would have absolutely no effect on the membership of the other boards. As I said each has its own strengths. This board is the mountain of hard data and knowledge. If I want crampon info I come here. If I want to know about a route up Cliff I go to Tim's site. If I want to know which site on the Bog has the best sunsets I go to Gary and Dick's.

I agree that NY posts get swallowed here. I'd always assumed it was because it was a New England based forum.

 

[iceNsnow]

It is kind of cool to be back.

I had been away for the exact reason Peakbgr stated and this thread has brought me back to read more than just the NY Trail Conditions. On the subject of the NY Trail Conditions, there is no better place to keep a finger on the heartbeat of the Adk trails - especially in the winter!

So on that same note I would make a regular visit to check NY Hiking posts instead of the very irregular visits to VFTT that I now make.

I see a lot of redundant posting of NY TRs etc. It seems to me that the hiking community still , and always will regard VFTT as the PRIMO source for hiking info regardless of the other forums that have sprouted from this site.

I have felt that I have missed a lot of general hiking info by not keeping tabs on vftt, but the effort to sift out the post most pertinent to me is time that I don't always have.

Please accommodate us NYers that don't want to go away again!
Thanks and as always you have a very professional site and your efforts are greatly appreciated!

Inge

 

[Bobcat]

Keep them together

As a longtime lurker I say keep, “them together.” I’ve been a daily user of this form for over six years (3 as a registered member.) The mountains are really very similar through out the Northeast. Some people feel that New York is different, but in relative terms it really isn’t. VT has a different feeling from NH, which has a different feeling from NY, which has a different feeling from ME, which has a different feeling from MA (& CT & RI.) This is all true. These differences are small compared to the western mountain regions. We are more similar than we are different here in the Northeast. I understand that some New Englanders would like to disassociate them selves from New York but in the interest of minimizing division I would suggest that we stay united as Northeast Q&A, not New England Q&A. This is my New York opinion. I’ll try to post more frequent and more quality.

 

[McRat]

For what it's worth... I have no problem trying out a separate forum if it would increase activity from our NY hiking friends, but I think VFTT benefits from it's status as a top-notch 'Northeast' hiking resource.

When I first started posting here, I was committed to finishing the NH48 list. I considered adding VT and ME for the 67. It wasn't until I started reading all these great NY trip reports and Q&As that I developed an interest in the ADK46. Now it is on the long term agenda. There are some absolutely gorgeous peaks in NY and I feel the need to stand on them.

Hmmmm... Maybe I'd have been better off not knowing.

 

[Rik]

I still don't see what harm will be done by trying it. We won't really know the answers to the above questions unless it is tried. For all of the fortune tellers that say they know what will happen I say it is time to see who is right.

 

[Skyclimber]

I still don't see what harm will be done by trying it. We won't really know the answers to the above questions unless it is tried. For all of the fortune tellers that say they know what will happen I say it is time to see who is right.

Totally agree.

With this being a Northeast Forum it does include the Adirondacks.

 

[Warren]

As a NY'er who hasn't been posting (or even lurking) in some time I can't say that splitting along regional lines would have any influence on me.

I'm with Sherpa and Darren, it's a community thing, one that I've taken real advantage throughout the NE. I really think the issue of lower quality/less frequency of NY based posts has more to do with the presence of other boards that are specifically focused on NY than how VFTT forums are organized. I don't think a forum split would help, I'd guess it could even make it worse by de-emphasizing the Northeast community aspect of VFTT. A low used NY section could serve to drive posts to other NY focused boards. Judging from the floors, decks, beds, backyards and couches I've slept on as the result of VFTT it's about a community of hikers and backpackers (kayakers by subscription only) in the Northeast.

Anyway, I've missed you guys NY, ME, MA, NH all inclusive. Sorry, VT and CT I haven't tread around you folks in some time.....

 

[Doodles]

I have been following this post and here is my
2 cents.

I found VFTT a few years ago and felt it to be a Northeast hiking site. I am perfectly happy with the format as it is now. I found that I moved over to ADK HP more for my Catskill and Adirondacks hikes, but that did not stop me from checking in on VFTT daily and posting some of my trips here. I DO NOT disagree that the NY trip reports seemed to have diminished here and increase on the ADK HP. However, a lot of us do post identical threads on both sites when we feel the need. The seperation by state of the trail conditions is a very effective way of getting area specific trail information. I have noticed at any given time, most members on ADK HP are also signed on to VFTT also. Regardless of what area I am currently hiking, I enjoy the information and reports that all hikers post.

As a lifelong New Yorker, I like the VFTT site just the way it is.

 

[snowshoe]

I jumped into this too late so did not read everyones post. I personally think it would be a great idea. I dont have much time anymore to get on the computer. It would be nice to be able to just go onto one site perferably VFTT and be able to get what I need fast. I do most of my hiking in North Jersey and Southern NY. I have very little intrest in the Whites and New England. ( I am not one for traveling far on a regular basis). It would be nice if I can just look at posts concerning NY. Yes I can go to the other forums but I have been a member to this site back when it was started. I have had an attachment to this site and I am more comfortable with this site. If you still have a general Q&A for topics that deal with outdoors in general, the family here will still be together. It would be nice for me to just click on the NY section and be able to read about the Catskills etc... rather than search through a bunch of topics about the entire NE that I have very little intrest in at the moment.
I also think North NJ tends to get left out. NJ has some great hiking as well as a large number of people who hike mainly NJ and Southern NY. You can do a North NJ/NY forum. I think this will increas membership. I never understood why Rhode Island has a trail conditions spot. Why not NJ, a State the sees a lot mote hiking. I can not tell you on any given weekends on how crowed places like the NJ Highlands and the Kittatinny,s get. I think it would be very valuable to reconize at least North Jersey with NY. After all the two states share a lot of things. We have NY football teams in NJ, Rutgers wins the game and NY celabrates, we share police (Port Authority and Pallisades). Why not put NJ into NY. Every so often there is a post concerning NJ hiking. If you have NJ in the mix it will draw more people. Anyway that is my opion and I can say it since I was a member for a long time and have seen the changes that has already occured and made the site what it is today. Every change that has occured saw people react negative but in the end everyone gets use to the change and has always been for the better. Since it is coming from Peakbagger and Daren I would go with them. They kept up a great site. They have never let us down.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Alan - if a separate forum is created, how will it work (and my apologies if this has been answered before as I've tried to read all the posts)? For example, the new Paddling and Photography forums require that you 'opt in' - would this new one behave the same way? I navigate VFTT via the New Posts button, and don't pay too much attention to which forum the posts are located in, so adding a separate NY forum probably wouldn't impact me in any appreciable way. One feature of requiring an 'opt in' is that it allows you to filter out certain posts. For example - initially I joined the Photography forum, but became overwhelmed by all posts so I opted out.

I've always regarded VFTT as New England-centric, with other states represented around the outside. That's neither good nor bad, it just seems like how the board has evolved. I join those who have expressed some doubt that having a separate NY forum will have a longterm impact on VFTT, but in the short-term it may make some NYers feel appreciated, which is a good thing.

I've always enjoyed posts which reflected the deep cultural differences in public land use between New England and New York, and without a healthy NY contingent those debates haven't occurred in recent months. Perhaps they'll return -

 

[Peakbagr]

Kev,

Thanks for asking. If Darren decides to go along with my suggested experiment, he'll divide only the Q&A section into Q&A-NY & Q&A-New England and other.

I'm guessing we'll come to the general menu screen and folks can choose one or the other with a click. One click, and you're into the other. Neither Darren nor I want to divide anything else. The Gen'l Backcounty, Trips, Events, Paddling, Photo, Site Q's, all stay the same.

I've thought this over for almost 3 years as I watched our NY members go elsewhere to post and learn about things NY. Many only occasionally cruise in here for a quick glance. Its my sincere hope that we can rebuild the NY database to where it was previously. I understood that many of the loyal New England membership, and some of the NYers too, would probably want to maintain the status quo. But I took the chance I'd might a resounding 'NO' for suggesting this. But so many great NY members have told me over the last years that they don't do much here any longer as what they write gets swallowed, and their fellow, active NY-ers validate that with their absences as well.
So convinced am I of this, I took the chance of making a public plea to the New England members to trust that I know what I'm talking about and let us try this experiment. With the entire rest of VFTT to co-mingle, I don't see the community being harmed, I see many inactive members coming back to post again. That will strengthen things for everyone.

 

[NewHampshire]

Just an observation, but:

If this site was heavily used by NYers back in the day, and the New Englanders were the minority, then something must have happened to start the decline way back then, right? I know membersip has expoded since then, but I find it hard to believe that suddenly only New Englanders (still a term I find hard to use since I consider NY part of New England....but I guess thats just me,) were registering. I mean, it must have still remained fairly proportional between NYers and NE. So if NYers posting declined, I think it must have been for other reasons than NE overload choking the forum since at one point THEIR posts were the majority or equal in number to NE.

I guess what I am trying to point out is that, NY postings must have dropped for reasons other than "There is no NY section." A better place to go for NY info, perhaps (not that I am trying to take a poke at this site in any way.) I find it hard to believe that simply addind a section with "NY" in the title will balance everything out again.

Don't know if any of this makes sense as typed, so forgive me.

Brian

P.S. By the way.....I could care less if we have a NY section or not. I thoroughly enjoy reading posts....either from NH, NY, MA, VT, ME or otherwise. It expands my regional knowledge ya know .

 

[alpinista]

As probably the newest resident of NY...

I'm frankly torn about this proposal. On one hand, I don't see how adding a section really interferes with the experience that New England-based hikers have with VFTT. It's one extra section that can be easily ignored if you're not interested in checking it out.

On the other hand, I'm having a tough time envisioning how it would actually work and what posts would go there that are so NY-centric that it's necessary to split it out into a separate section (particularly if the intent is not to separate out trip reports). I guess I just need to see it in operation to get a feel for the mechanics of it.

That said, if the key is that this is strictly an image thing _ a subtle way of showing a welcoming hand to NY-based hikers and encouraging them to be active participants in VFTT _ what's the harm? We are richer on this board for hearing about everyone's experiences, regardless of locale (e.g. Rainier, St. Lucia, etc).

As a recent immigrant to NY, I might be even more inclined now to explore the Catskills and the Daks, and will be hunting around for beta on those places than I was when I lived in New England.

Give it a shot. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[iceNsnow]

Nice post, Alpinista!

I couldn't have said it better - even though I did try!
I am curious as how it would work and testing it for a while would be harmless.
My thoughts are that if a test run is made it should be made soon or over the winter months when there is more free time spent at the computer to give it a fair shake.

 

[Grumpy]

The reason for proposing a separate New York forum on VFTT, as I understand it, is to encourage an increase in the volume of posting about New York hiking.

The common “theme” I read in posts that support the proposal for a separate New York forum on VFTT goes like this: “I don’t have enough time to sift through all the posts to find those that pertain to NY.”

Now, my own experience tells me that it takes a lot more time to write a post than it does to scan a forum thread list and pick out (and even read) those threads that pique my interest.

So the question that comes to mind is this: If people don’t have time to scan the current posts looking for those that pertain to New York, why does anyone think those folks suddenly would find the time to begin posting New York stuff here if a new forum were created here for that purpose?

Like Alan and a number of others, I am dismayed by the decline in New York related posts here on VFTT, which I regard as the true gold standard for internet hiking discussion BBs. But I’m doubtful that changing the VFTT format to include a state-specific forum is either the effective or the right move to make in an effort to reverse this trend.

G.

 

[paul ron]

Lets see a poll?

I'm under the weather today so I decided to take a count of all the posts in this thread to see just who and what is going on.

I counted all the yeahs n nays as well as noted the locations of these votes. Perhaps a poll is needed to better understand where many are from since I find too many people are just too lazy to put their proper locations in the box. That may help find out who the trouble makers really are.

The count as I find it....
Including the none indicated locations, Ct, Ma, Vt, Canadians, and one from Earth totaled 40 votes of which
17 are Yes, 19 No and 4 don't care for NY section

NYers totaled 25 votes of which
7 Yes, 12 No, 6 dont care

NHers totaled 7 votes of which
1 Yes, 4 No and 2 don't care.

So how about first filling in where you are from, then telling us why you aren't from NY asking for a separate NY section? Aren't you happy with all of us sharing our welth of information regardless of where we are from? Perhaps indicating the state your question or comment is based on in the header might help some to scan the threads faster? Is faster scanning the real concern?

I have been a member of this place since it was first concieved as Lexicom.Com and I have gotten to know everyone here by their postings. Perhaps I've only met a few of you on the trails, but I do feel that home environment here that you can't and don't get anywhere else on the internet. This place is so special that outsiders consider us as snobs because we don't have an open registration. If that isn't special enough, go to BackPacker.com and the ADK boards or out of state boards where you are from to get your fill of where you think you belong. But when you come back here, remeber, you can expect to find your friends who just want to talk about hiking n backpacking with no political bull or ranting like you find so previlent other sites.

Thanks Darrel for this special environment and alowing us to use your kitchen.

 

[BlackSpruce]

!?!?!?...

The non adirondacks climbers are almost all giving a NO answer to Alan offer of a NY-Q&A section and that's exactly why we ADK climbers would like a NY section ,we are not asking for the moon just one more section. Of course if you take a poll it will come out a no since nowadays the majority of posters are not from the ADK. I personnaly don't like hitting NEW as I don't need to know about everything that goes on on WFTT. Furthermore I don't think WFTT is an educational tool meaning one has to see all of the others posts as to be tempted or encouraged to reading them to broaden his hiking knowledge...

It certainly is extremely disapointing being lectured at lenght for such a trivial matter...

Christine