Reducing Pack Weight for Winter Outings

[DougPaul]

My biggest problem with weight is the amount of water I need to bring, knowing I usually can't refill in most places.
I will drink 3 quarts easy, if not more, on any daytrip.
And carry a 4th, so my extra quart is simply...extra weight.

I would like to hear how other "heavy drinkers" manage this?
I have thought about a pot & stove to melt snow, but this is not really practical due to time constraints and counter productive to water weight problem, traded for fuel weight??

All this talk about the gear weight, what to bring and what not to bring, my water problem is the biggest weight problem by a long shot.

I have the pump which is for other 3 season use and weighs less than 1 quart equivalent.
Water sources are plentiful so this is not a problem. But during winter treks I am counting on everything frozen.
I guess I can always eat snow...and have..

I maintain a fairly high flow rate, but generally get by with 2 liters in winter.
* Gasoline is lighter than water, so melting snow makes sense for a multi-day trip, but not generally for a day trip.
* Are you sweating? Perhaps you can reduce your water needs if you strip down more/wear lighter clothing. Try to stay cool without being cold rather than warm below timberline. (Try to stay on the warm side above T-line if windy etc.)
* Filters freeze in winter (and can be damaged).
* You can melt some snow with excess body heat while hiking. Make a slush in a partially filled waterbottle and place it near your skin.
* Eating snow is ok to a point--it can irritate the mucous membranes in your mouth. Try to suck on icicles (or high water content packed snow) rather than loose dry snow. Don't forget that snow can be contaminated (windblown particles from a variety of sources).
* If you are peeing out more than about a liter during the day, you are probably drinking more than you need.

Doug

 

[Neil]

Lighten up!

What a thread! I've read every word looking for nuggets. Good to see no one has suggested cutting the corners off of maps.
My winter day pack including food and water varies from sub 20 to 25 lbs. I'd love to see that coat!
I just dropped 3 whopping lbs. by getting a GoLite shell (1 lb. even) and a Golite pack( 1lb. 6 oz. )

 

[rhihn]

What a thread! I've read every word looking for nuggets. Good to see no one has suggested cutting the corners off of maps.
My winter day pack including food and water varies from sub 20 to 25 lbs. I'd love to see that coat!
I just dropped 3 whopping lbs. by getting a GoLite shell (1 lb. even) and a Golite pack( 1lb. 6 oz. )

Hi Neil, great thread. I'm sure it varies with the hike, conditions, etc., but I'd love to see the contents of your winter daypack that includes food, water, and is sub 20 lbs. Would you care to post? What does your winter overnight pack weigh?

 

[Jkrew81]

I use an Arc Teryx Bora 50 for year round use but in the winter where I find weight to matter more with all the extra equipment that is needed. I strip the pack of its lid and internal frame. After that I take crampons, shovel (optional), axe (sometimes 2 when needed), 2 nalgenes (w/ insulators), white gas stove with small pot (nothing better than a warm cup of tea), food that consists of at least 5 packets of GU (does not freeze), Patagonia Puff jkt + Wild Things EP pants (I find it makes more sense to be warm and moving that wrapped up in a sleeping bag), "10 essentials" kit, goggles, camera and snowshoes when needed. All in all it weighs about 17lbs.

 

[Neil]

Hi Neil, great thread. I'm sure it varies with the hike, conditions, etc., but I'd love to see the contents of your winter daypack that includes food, water, and is sub 20 lbs. Would you care to post? What does your winter overnight pack weigh?

Bikini briefs, sunscreen, sun hat. Whoops, wrong list.

I will post later on (when I've edited out half the stuff I just can't bear to leave behind but never use).

My winter overnight pack contains a credit card and nothing else.

OK, I'll be serious.

The sub 20 day pack (closer to 15 actually) was for a jaunt up Phelps on a bluebird sunny day. 25 lbs (groan) would be for the Sewards.
My overnight winter pack these days tips the scales anywhere between 40 and 50 lbs depending...
I did have it down to the mid 30's for a 5 nighter at neg. 40 but that was in the pre-ultralite epoch so I guess it dosn't count.

I have a bunch of checklists that I use for different seasons and trip lengths. They are exhaustive lists though and I never take everything from any list on a single trip.

 

[Neil]

For me the main thing is to be able to survive an unexpected night out no matter what the season. (Summer, think bugs) With every trip you do you increase the odds of having it happen to you. Then, you will be very thankful for all that crap you've been lugging around. I would be inclined to believe that an unexpected night out would be due to an injury or to unforcasted, very severe weather.
One important item is a saw. If you or a companion is truly immobilized then fire might be your best friend. I know, it won't always be easy to find adequate wood but I will always want a saw.

Severe, unexpected weather is another story alltogether and I have to admit, digging in to a snowbank under a raging blizzard while soaking wet is something I'd rather read about than do. That 4 lb coat might be just the ticket!

 

[JimB]

I don't have a list right handy but some things I've done to keep down winter pack weight is to look at the minimum I would need for me or my partner to survive in case of a severe injury. Other than the breathable lightweight gear I wear, my pack contains a hooded shell for stops or above treeline, warm fleece or insulated pants, a down jacket, thick wool balaclava, thick overmitts, an extra pair of thick wool socks, one of those insulated red thermo blankets with grommets, and a ziplock bag with candle lantern with extra candles and waterproof matches. I also have an unbreathable nylon bivy bag that is just a big sack that rolls up into the size of a soda can that I always take no matter what season. With all of the clothes on and in a sheltered spot with the bag, blanket and flame if needed, I would hope to come out OK. This doesn't include all of the food and water stuff but I use a lot of gels and Cytomax to keep fueled and save weight. Also Northern Lite snowshoes are like 2 lbs and if I can't break 'em no one can .

 

[Neil]

I'd love to see the contents of your winter daypack that includes food, water, and is sub 20 lbs. Would you care to post?

This is from memory but I'm pretty sure this is everything I had in my pack when we did Lyon Mountain. I'm sure the pack weighed very close to 20 lbs.

Down Parka with hood
1st aid (very basic)
map/compass
TP and alcohol
Spare glasses
3 headlamps
matches
spare batteries
tiny knife
2 synth shirts
50 feet webbing
crampons
wool mitts
gore-tex overmitts
warm fleece hat
headband
spare gloves
camera
2 liters water
food
gore-tex jacket.

On Sawtooth 5 add spair sox, pack cover, more gloves, rain jacket, change crampons to snowshoes, no webbing, more food, less water.
The down parka will soon be replaced by a synthetic. On colder days add more fleece. Also, add a Sven saw and a low grade bivvy soon.
(Finally, instead of carrying my wallet I remove three or 4 important cards and just carry those. I remove one key for my car from the keychain and clip it into my pack.)

 

[marty]

Oh, just thought of another thing to keep pack weight down: I wear a fanny pack to balance some of the load. In it, I keep some food, maps, LED flashlight, sunscreen, glasses, car key, cash/credit cards and other small items. I also hang my water bottle & holster and crampons/Stablicers from that belt, rather than my pack's hip belt. Marty

 

[John H Swanson]

My biggest problem with weight is the amount of water I need to bring, knowing I usually can't refill in most places.
I will drink 3 quarts easy, if not more, on any daytrip.
And carry a 4th, so my extra quart is simply...extra weight.

I would like to hear how other "heavy drinkers" manage this?


Jeff

On most winter daytrips I hike in and out on the same route. When the route starts to exceed 12 to 15 miles round trip then I will often bring in a third quart in an old homemade insulator and stash it about 5 miles in. This is for trips like the Bonds, Sewards, Allen etc. Often the stash point is after the long flat section before the steep climb. I place it in a spot where it will be easy to find i.e. a trail junction. I have the insulator clearly marked as "water cach, Please do not disturb." I start with boiling water so it is usually not frozen but it is cold. Of course a hand warmer would improve the temp. When you're 5 miles in, the only people around disturb it, are kindrid spirts ...that would give you the shirt off their back in an emergency. The last thing to worry about is them disburbing my water. For me, this works.

 

[jfb]

Here is the full list with weight in grams. convert to oz by dividing by 28.35.

Good news!

I looked through your list again and was able to shave off about 9 lbs. by either upgrading to lighter gear or eliminating unnecessary items!

Your goal is worthwhile. I'd be interested in seeing the new gear list after you've incorporated some of the suggestions.

 

[Jeff-B]

Water needs

I maintain a fairly high flow rate, but generally get by with 2 liters in winter.

* Are you sweating? Perhaps you can reduce your water needs if you strip down more/wear lighter clothing. Try to stay cool without being cold rather than warm below timberline. (Try to stay on the warm side above T-line if windy etc.)

* If you are peeing out more than about a liter during the day, you are probably drinking more than you need.

Doug

I am a sweathog for sure, but I really can't dress down any more or I'll be naked!
I am a serious heat machine which is one reason I excel in winter conditions for many sports. I just stay warm quite easily, my blood runs thick and my heart pumps well.
As you might suspect, my summer trips are brutal and require full head & often body immersions in cold rivers.

I hate being soaked in my own stink, so I dress with plans as noted:
Below treeline I wear a thin wicking long sleeve tee, like polypro or techwic, and I expect to replace it upon exiting treeline with a dry ultra light Duofold merino wool base layer.
I am quite happy with this exchange of clothing and feel "recharged" at treeline. I will wear this final base layer for the rest of the day and layer more over this as needed. I usually stay fairly dry beyond this treeline change.

Above treeline I don't drink as much water either, mostly due to the sweat decrease if blustery and cold enough weather exists.
I am not peeing out more than a liter a day, or maybe just that amount total, it seems on par with a typical hiking day. So, I don't think I am drinking too much.

Someone wrote to place snow into a spent liter to melt against my body heat, that makes a ton of sense. Maybe I can utilize my Camelback just for that and not drink from the tube which would freeze, I know. It seems the Camelback would fit against my body more effectively providing surface area to melt snow.
Once melted I can transfer to the widemouth Nalgene bottle. Maybe I will try this someday.

I like John Swanson's idea of caching water on the way in too. I can see many trips where this makes the most sense.

But if ALL of you can manage and entire round trip winter hike on 2 liters of water, my hats off to you! I would suffer of dehydration for sure.

BTW: I have been thinking of a simple lightweight butane stove just for the purpose to melt snow and make tea for daytrips if conditions permitted with enough time and shelter.
I am sure others do this if practical.