Resue on Mt. Washington

[JustJoe]

The person in question did a quick post on FB in Hike the 4000 Footers of NH. Stating one of the items she had that helped her til she was found was one of these. Which I also carry. Also had put feet in a wool hat.

Not sure how or where she lost the trail but it is easy to do in winter. My first winter hike was almost my last do to losing the trail on Pierce no less. I'd decided Pierce was a good choice to give this winter hiking thing a try. Headed up under blues skies only to reach the summit as it went in the clouds. With high winds and whiteout squalls kicking up. Stayed long enough to quickly eat some soup. Had pretty much everything I needed, including goggles. A group had left just as I got there. Even with the goggles I got only see about 5'. I followed there tracks, right off trail. because of the high winds I didn't see where they turned back towards the trail. I ended up waste deep in a spruce trap. Being a new-bee to this my life flashed before my eyes. They say panic is often the first reaction. Sure was with me. But once I got myself out of the trap, I calmed down and listened to reason. You were just on the trail less than 10 minutes ago. Hell there was a sign. So it has to be very close. I did the best I could to retrace my steps (no GPS) where my tracks were still visible. Once I couldn't see them anymore (really blowing) I kept going up. In about 5 minutes I'd found the sign and could make out the trail corridor. This almost made me say the heck with winter hiking.

I think what helped me and what people should practice is the instant you think you may not be on the trail, stop! Then do their best to go back to where they're sure they were on it. Have had to do that several times over the years.

Anyway, this is where I messed up on Pierce and as you can see in the conditions I had it would be easy to do. Green, trail. Red, where I went.

 

[Snowflea]

Does anyone ever use wands anymore???
Decidedly low-tech but they don't use batts and are easy to see. And, if left in place they can help others with similar problems.

I had the exact thought as Chris B. Top of Ammo Trail can be SO hard to pick out in winter conditions that wands are a great idea. Wednesday was so nice, however - I was on Pierce and Eisenhower - that it probably wouldn’t have crossed anyone’s mind to use them that day.

Re snowshoes, there’s NO way we would have made it over to Ike without them that day, and I’m puzzled why they would have been left behind in the car.

Just Joe, in 1994 a very good friend of mine got pulled off Pierce just as you describe. Unfortunately he kept going and spent many weeks in the hospital recovering. People think Pierce is an easy 4k, but it is not hard to get off trail up there in low visibility.

 

[Mike P.]

While the snowshoes probably were not an issue once she was in the deep snow, the perception would be leaving them in the car was unwise. Sounds like there was some spruce traps based on how deep they were sinking in. Leaving the compass outside your pack when going through the fir and spruce and relying on electronics may seem negligent, in the end it's how F&G looks upon it, not how we see it. Yes, that upper section of Ammo can be tough to navigate through. Having the bivy bag was good, I bring something very similar in winter.

Pierce was the scene of my last trip leaving snowshoes in the car and that was early December, eons ago. The next trip was in winter and lost the C-Path on the way up very near the top. Looking at Joe's map, probably one of the parts that look like a small slash through the trees leading to the Webster Cliff trail. Knew as long as I was going up I would cross the Webster Cliff. From there, I went left, (westerly) until I got to the junction with the Crawford Path sign.

 

[ChrisB]

....Re snowshoes, there’s NO way we would have made it over to Ike without them that day, and I’m puzzled why they would have been left behind in the car.

It's interesting that this event occurred on the first nice day after a very prolonged period of cold and high winds. The snow transport up there must have been quite high, with drifting of epic proportions. So, while no major snow fall in the previous 7 days was recorded, deep snow was the deposited in various places throughout the range.

This trip report on the Jewell Trail for the day of the Ammo event describes the heavy snow condx a party of 7 encountered up and down.

Lesson for me here is that snowshoes might be useful even if it hasn't snowed in a week!!

cb

 

[cushetunk]

"Just bring the snowshoes," is an easy argument in retrospect, but it ignores what even most experienced hikers do.

Let's face it, most days you don't need snowshoes. Few bemoan this change more than me. (I once stated on this board, with only a little hyperbole, that "If you're not wearing snowshoes, it's not winter hiking.") But it is what we've got. Not only are the trails almost always packed out, but with our increasingly common thaws the snow off trail is often less deep and more dense--and easier to travel through--than it was twenty years ago.

I have agonized at trailheads over whether I would need snowshoes. Once or twice, I've judged it wrong and had to turn back. Luckily it was never in serious circumstances.

The past few weeks, with the cycle of storms and cold weather, called for snowshoes. But I can appreciate how someone could misjudge that.

 

[ChrisB]

"Just bring the snowshoes," is an easy argument in retrospect, but it ignores what even most experienced hikers do.

... Let's face it, most days you don't need snowshoes.

Well, that might be the case if all goes well and you stay on the trail! In this event our fellow hiker got all the way up Mt Wash -- and most of the way down-- without them. It was only when she got into the weeds they would have been useful.

Looking at them they way we view a bivvy sack might make it less onerous to haul em along on winter slogs

cb.

 

[Raven]

Great job by the rescuers and it sounds like a nice job by the hiker of staying alive and getting found once she realized the situation. She didn't let panic take over and made good decisions. She had to be cold.

As many times as I have been up and down Ammo Ravine for maintenance or for fun, I still find that the quarter mile below the hut can be baffling in winter. On top of it, the wind can sometimes be screaming up the ravine and past the hut making a very difficult descent straight into it. I've had to dive in behind the large rock outcropping/boulders below the hut on more than one occasion to get out of it, and I've certainly had challenging times route finding in that stretch.

I've never used wands through there, but it's certainly a great place for them. I found a stash of them left behind and tucked under a rock on Monroe's summit a couple years back. That area can be a bit of a trap. Seemingly easy and clear on the ascent only to turn around into a strong wind realizing everything is starting to look the same on the way out and your tracks are filling in as you watch.

Glad she's safe. Probably could have used some really big, wood framed snowshoes in there.

 

[ChrisB]

...Probably could have used some really big, wood framed snowshoes in there.

Hey MSR users,

Do MSRs really provide enough flotation in deep powder? I've looked at them in the stores and the seem narrow and small, even with tails. But I know they are really popular.

I'm a Tubbs guy and mine seem to have about twice the surface area as most MSRs.

Can you really bang pow in MSRs without killing yourself?

cb

 

[sierra]

Once I got to the Webster Cliff trail junction on Pierce and it was blowing snow like a blizzard. I turned to climb to the summit, went a few steps, turned around and could not see the entrance back into the woods. My tracks were filling in fast and I thought of bailing. Then I thought, I'll split my poles and mark the route. I used the 4 sections to mark the route and I'm glad I did.

 

[skiguy]

"Just bring the snowshoes," is an easy argument in retrospect, but it ignores what even most experienced hikers do.

Let's face it, most days you don't need snowshoes. Few bemoan this change more than me. (I once stated on this board, with only a little hyperbole, that "If you're not wearing snowshoes, it's not winter hiking.") But it is what we've got. Not only are the trails almost always packed out, but with our increasingly common thaws the snow off trail is often less deep and more dense--and easier to travel through--than it was twenty years ago.

I have agonized at trailheads over whether I would need snowshoes. Once or twice, I've judged it wrong and had to turn back. Luckily it was never in serious circumstances.

The past few weeks, with the cycle of storms and cold weather, called for snowshoes. But I can appreciate how someone could misjudge that.

Better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them.

 

[egilbe]

I've had enough times that I wanted snowshoes and didn't have them that, now, I keep them with me. Nothing worse than following a nice packed out trail for three miles and then coming to the end of the packed out trail. With no snow shoes, I had to turn around.

 

[peakbagger]

To answer Chris's question about MSRs having adequate flotation, IMHO, the older moulded Denali design really doesn't have much for floatation on unpacked snow. The removable tails help a bit but they mess up the balance of them somewhat. They are good for following a marginally packed out trail or one that was packed out but now has fresh snow. I think the Lightnings had marginally more floatation. I have several pairs, the Army Surplus magnesium ones (with different bindings) are great powder shoes with good flotation. They don't have a claw or a rotary binding setup so not so good for uphill travel. My 25 year old Tubbs Katahdins have good flotation and were good climbing snowshoes but are bit wider than the many of the current snowshoes so they are not so good in an established track. I do like heel lifts so unless I plan to be breaking a trail I use the Denali version with a heel lifts.

Unless the F&G folks have recently bought new gear I believe they stick with the long version of Sherpa's (the design is still available from a Canadian firm). They probably have double the floatation area.

 

[sierra]

I'm in Lightning Ascents and they are a fine shoe. That being said, they replaced my Sherpa's with the full crampon binding. In deep powder I would grab my Sherpa's with out blinking, they out float the MSR's hands down. I also miss the webbing strap system, I could put them on easier then the bindings on the MSR's. I have actually considered going back to my Sherpa's.

 

[skiguy]

I'm in Lightning Ascents and they are a fine shoe. That being said, they replaced my Sherpa's with the full crampon binding. In deep powder I would grab my Sherpa's with out blinking, they out float the MSR's hands down. I also miss the webbing strap system, I could put them on easier then the bindings on the MSR's. I have actually considered going back to my Sherpa's.

There are plenty of Sherpas and parts around. Check out EBay. I have used Sherpas for years and when all the new gizmo shoes started showing up I cashed in on Sherpa decks and bindings. One of the things I like best about Sherpas is their field repairability. I do have some newer shoes Tubbs, Denalis, and lightenings. Although the Sherpas are still my fav.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I own three pairs - MSR Evo (22 + 6" tail - they are to be worn when the trail is very likely to be packed, and when I think I might be carrying them), Tubbs Flex Alp XL (28), when I know I will be breaking trail all day and the snow is 18+, and my go-to Tubbs Flex Alp (24) for most everything else.

I prefer snowshoes to microspikes and crampons. Wore them on both Jays today even though I did not have to.

Tim

 

[TJsName]

I own three pairs - MSR Evo (22 + 6" tail - they are to be worn when the trail is very likely to be packed, and when I think I might be carrying them), Tubbs Flex Alp XL (28), when I know I will be breaking trail all day and the snow is 18+, and my go-to Tubbs Flex Alp (24) for most everything else.

I prefer snowshoes to microspikes and crampons. Wore them on both Jays today even though I did not have to.

Tim

I'm very similar. I find snowshoes to be much easier on the brain when conditions aren't solid, and the climbing bar is a big perk. When it comes to flotation, I've compromised and use the Tubbs Flex VRT 28", it gives me enough float in deep stuff to get by, and are great for everything else. I don't go out looking to break trail for many miles though, and I don't do it solo. Given my size (over 300lbs with pack and winter gear), getting snowshoes that offer significant flotation, I start getting drawbacks with weight, width, and structural integrity (my 34" aluminium rail shoes 'banana-ed' on me before snapping).

I very rarely leave my snowshoes in the car, but an out and back sled trip on a packed trail is a good candidate (e.g., Liberty Springs). I have to be pretty much certain I won't need them in order to leave them. It seems to me that many people are the opposite - they'll only bring them if they are sure they will use them. It's a subtle distinction, but it's important.

 

[Raven]

I think one of the scenarios that gets people caught deep into it without snowshoes (and I did this once) is to head fast and deep into the forest on broken solid trail only to return in warming afternoon temperatures and posthole-ready snow. A cold morning followed by warming above 32F can cause some problems.

I love my MSR Denali Classics. Picked up a second $99 pair last year. They are terrible for flotation, great for ascent in typical northeast conditions. I find them fine trail breaking in a few feet on trail but certainly not as deep powder shoes. As PB mentioned, the flotation tails change center of mass too much to be useful.

 

[sierra]

There are plenty of Sherpas and parts around. Check out EBay. I have used Sherpas for years and when all the new gizmo shoes started showing up I cashed in on Sherpa decks and bindings. One of the things I like best about Sherpas is their field repairability. I do have some newer shoes Tubbs, Denalis, and lightenings. Although the Sherpas are still my fav.

No need for EBay. My Sherpa's are in great condition.

 

[ChrisB]

345 True???

I agree.

I keep a dedicated GPS (with user replaceable batteries) running to record a track and, if necessary, for navigation.

This got me curious about way finding down from LOC in whiteout or lost trail condx.

Obviously, you gotta be there but...

Looking at a few maps as well as Google Earth, it seems like the AMMO (summer) trail runs in a straight line from the rear corner of the hut for 0.2 miles on a bearing of 345 true.

It sounds too easy, but would following this bearing get a winter hiker into the trees and on the trail home no matter what?

cb

(I'll be doing Monroe in a week or so and let you know!!)

 

[sierra]

This got me curious about way finding down from LOC in whiteout or lost trail condx.

Obviously, you gotta be there but...

Looking at a few maps as well as Google Earth, it seems like the AMMO (summer) trail runs in a straight line from the rear corner of the hut for 0.2 miles on a bearing of 345 true.

It sounds too easy, but would following this bearing get a winter hiker into the trees and on the trail home no matter what?

cb

(I'll be doing Monroe in a week or so and let you know!!)

Actually, in bad visibility it is not that easy. The area drifts substantially and everything blends in to make quite confusing. Combined with the thick and technical nature of the terrain, many have had the same issues in that area.