Rumors about Thoreau Falls Bridge Removal

[Creag Nan Drochaid]

Thoreau Falls bridge

ALL right, now I am curious.

Given the facts this bridge is on the most direct and flood-resistant (this bridge vs. 9 stream crossings on the parallel Shoal Pond Tr) route east of the Bonds, AND that it is well-sited and well-built, AND that it appears to need new deck/stairs/handrails, AND that it appears to have stringers of PT lumber laminated but sagging (Please correct me): IMHO this one needs to be replaced not disappeared.
If it is not on the USFS SOPA now, then now may be a good time to write the Forest Supervisor cc the District Ranger cc post here. Let us see how many of us care enough to do more than just post here.

Craig nan drochaid

 

[JacobH]

The pemi district currently has 1 paid trail maintainer (and one full-time volunteer) if I'm not mistaken. I'm curious as to where the resources would come from to rebuild such a remote bridge.

 

[peakbagger]

A bridge rebuild would have to be budgetted as well as a removal .It would not typically be done by local staff. Long ago parking fees might have been used but whatever dollars they contributed to the budget have been offset by cuts elsewhere.

The unfortunate joke with the Prior Pemi bridge removal was that replacement of the old deck boards would have been far less costly than the as yet unfinished removal of the bridge. Had they left a pile of rotten deck boards, Sabrina's excellent project cleaning up the mess left would have been able to be completed quite readilly as they wouldnt have to be lugging out RR ties.

If the footings are trully damaged on the thoreau falls bridge, it is a significant project. Unless Wilderness rules have changed, there is not a absolute requirement that all work must be done with non motorized equpment, it is a goal but ultimately if its deemed necessary, it only takes a few more reams of paper. As the damage apparently was caused by Irene, I expect a flood declaration would make things easier to get it repaired.

Ultimately if the supervisor doesnt want it, she can get rid of it.

Creag, could you post up to date contact info for the appropriate parties in the FS as I dont see it listed anywhere

If folks would write comments in advance and send copies to their congressional delegation it would be more effective. Generally the USFS, doesnt like to upset a member of congress.

 

[rocket21]

NH STATE SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 2

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2012/SCR0002.html

As currently filed:

That the general court finds that, in order to encourage the safety and public access to the White Mountain National Forest, the United States Forest Service practice of trail blazing in designated wilderness should be permitted; and

That the general court finds that, in order to encourage safety and public access to the White Mountain National Forest, the United States Forest Service should, whenever possible, repair existing bridges and not remove bridges when removal costs more than repair; and

That the general court finds that, in order to enhance wilderness experience and solitude, the United States Forest Services should remove all debris and trash remaining at the site of the former Pemigewasset Bridge near the Bondcliff Trail; and

That the general court finds that, in order to enhance safety and public access to the White Mountain National Forest, the United States Forest Service should not close hiking trails unless a demonstrable hazard exists which cannot be repaired; and

That the general court finds that, in order to enhance public access to the White Mountain National Forest, the United States Forest Service should not close areas that have historically been used as tent sites

 

[una_dogger]

Woot! Way to go, Jeb! He may just "turn" me yet

NH STATE SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 2

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2012/SCR0002.html

As currently filed:

 

[psmart]

... it appears to have stringers of PT lumber laminated but sagging (Please correct me)

As others have suggested, I think there is some confusion between two separate bridges.

The bridge in question (on the Thoreau Falls Trail near the North Fork Junction) is supported by two large white pines. It's mentioned in Steve Smith's trail report (scroll to the bottom):
http://mountainwandering.blogspot.com/2011/07/tour-of-eastern-pemi-7711-having-made.html

Here are some additional photos before and after Irene:
http://scenicnh.com/blog/2011/09/tropical-storm-before-after/
http://scenicnh.photoshelter.com/image/I0000K1cUXgoWKDE

As opposed to the bridge above Thoreau Falls on the Ethan Pond Trail, which, IIRC, does have laminated stringers. Since this bridge is NOT in Wilderness and IS on the AT it will almost surely be maintained when the need arises:
http://www.superstock.com/stock-photos-images/1809-13186

Hope I cleared that up rather than adding to the confusion

 

[TEO]

Fortunately that resolution is non-binding. It would seem to me to be poorly thought out. Based on that wording, all bandit campsites should be legalized.

Other than that, it's encouraging to see that the State of New Hampshire is so anti-Wilderness.

 

[JacobH]

Whoa, where did that resolution come from? That's great!

 

[MichaelJ]

I agree on the possible misinterpretation of opinion on bandit campsites (I'm assuming this is to say "keep camping at Resolution, Dry River, and Perkins Notch shelter sites even if the shelters are gone" ?), but overall it's nice to hear the legislature take a stand on these issues.

Note that the Forest Plan doesn't cover trail closures due to damage that I recall reading about. It does say that it is not permitted to close a trail in order to reduce the number of people in a Wilderness area. It doesn't cover de facto closure from lack of maintenance simply allowing the trail to disappear.

 

[dr_wu002]

It would be a real bummer if they removed that bridge. The Thoreau Falls Trail is a gem. Maybe the forest service will blaze a new trail alongside the North side of the river connecting Thoreau Falls Trail to Stillwater Junction. That would be pretty awesome. That would make losing that dumb bridge (which is a bunch of planks glued to a dead pine tree) worth it. It would be kind of cool, actually, if they made it a sort of draw bridge to disguise what it is. It's a good idea, actually: put a bridge that is disguised as a tree and put it on a hinge. When you need to cross you drop it like a bridge and it can then be drawn back up so that it looks like a regular tree to passersby. It's like those cell towers that they disguise as a tree. Make one into a draw bridge -- you don't even have to use wood.

-Dr. Wu

 

[brianW]

The pemi district currently has 1 paid trail maintainer (and one full-time volunteer) if I'm not mistaken. I'm curious as to where the resources would come from to rebuild such a remote bridge.

How about volunteers? Besides bringing in and laying the stringers across the river, two or three people could place the decking in a day. Mt bike club I'm in has done a few bridges (repair and brand new) and all are half day projects. Our longest is about 25' which I am sure shorter than what is needed here. Bringing in the supplies is always the hardest part. The decking from what I can see from the pics. look in good shape. Could salvage it, if that is the case.

ps. I know a cannot 'til the regulations change but I always dream of riding through the Pemi.

 

[RoySwkr]

Whoa, where did that resolution come from? That's great!

Jeb Bradley should not be confused with HE but he has climbed the 48

The North Country reps are interested in continuing tourism, not people getting lost or stranded and going to ME or VT next time

 

[DSettahr]

The pemi district currently has 1 paid trail maintainer (and one full-time volunteer) if I'm not mistaken. I'm curious as to where the resources would come from to rebuild such a remote bridge.

Typically, full time trail maintainers that work for either the Federal Government or a particular State focus mainly on blowdown removal and side-cutting. They do get involved occasionally in large-scale specific projects, but it's generally not their primary job responsibility.

Large projects, like the rebuilding of a bridge, typically are contracted out to professional trail crews. I know the whites have at least one professional crew- the AMC trail crew (pretty much the original professional trail crew in the northeast). I'm sure that the Randolph Mountain Club probably also has their own professional crew. It's crews like the AMC crew that would likely get involved in a project like this.

 

[Creag Nan Drochaid]

bridge options

Thanks to psmart for the photos.
The upstream stringer on the ThorFallsTr looks rather compromised. Given the age of this bridge I'd be thinking a total replacement, built the same but on higher abutments, ends pointed to resist scour and collapse. The stringers to be cantilevered 3' beyond the abutments on the shore end to support the upper end of the ramps, which would be at 90 degrees to the stringer: you descend the ramp facing downstream. Upper end of ramp stringers hinged to downstream bridge stringer, lower end sits on log. Flood lifts ramp, but it falls back to place with falling water.
The other solution that suggests itself is to remove this bridge and cut a trail near the North Fork easterly to Ethan Pond Trail, making use of its bridge that is sure to be rebuilt as needed. Bridges are headaches, the fewer the better without compromising safety.
Full disclosure: AMC Cardigan Vol Trail Crew has to care for 5 bridges 20+' long, 2 12+' long, 32 bog bridges 5'-10'. We could easily add six more if all we wanted to do was maintain bridges...

Creag nan drochaid

 

[RoySwkr]

The other solution that suggests itself is to remove this bridge and cut a trail near the North Fork easterly to Ethan Pond Trail, making use of its bridge that is sure to be rebuilt as needed. Bridges are headaches, the fewer the better without compromising safety.

You need to look at the map more carefully - the bridge crosses the East Branch (not the North Fork) and the nearest one is 6.5 miles away back at the Kanc

 

[dr_wu002]

You need to look at the map more carefully - the bridge crosses the East Branch (not the North Fork) and the nearest one is 6.5 miles away back at the Kanc

What about cutting a trail from Stillwater Junction to the Thoreau Falls Trail, along the North Bank of the river? There's already no bridge at Stillwater Junction and there might be old logging roads that they can utilize...

-Dr. Wu

 

[RoySwkr]

What about cutting a trail from Stillwater Junction to the Thoreau Falls Trail, along the North Bank of the river? There's already no bridge at Stillwater Junction and there might be old logging roads that they can utilize...

The Wilderness Trail used to cross the river 4 times following the logging RR, once on a cable car, but was moved to the S side as the crossings were tough. Hence there are at least 2 sections of old trail on the N side, at least one of which is very muddy.

If you also extended the trail on the N bank to Shoal Pond Trail, and a connector on the S bank from Thoreau Falls to the A.T. bridge, then you would have a long all-season loop from Ethan Pond Trail but would still need low water to access it from Wilderness Trail.

 

[Niltiac]

Originally I was against the removal of the last bridge. I read forum after forum speaking to the condition of the bridge, most noting nothing was wrong with it. Sadly it went anyways. I decided to accept the fate of the bridge, and gladly agreed to help pack out the pieces remaining when Sabrina approached me. It was a great day with 20 plus volunteers. I met some great people and had a wonderful day carrying out buckets of nuts and bolts and swimming in the Pemi. Recently I went out to the remnants of the bridge to cut the support beams up into a size and weight that can be easily pulled out by people with sleds (With a crosscut saw of course, since modern tools are not permitted in the wilderness). When we started poking around in the pile of these support beams, the beams that had once been responsible for holding up the entire bridge, I was horrified and immediately understood why the bridge needed to be removed. These beams where rotten all the way through. When merely moving these support beams with a rock bar, the beams disintegrated. I believe the picture below says a lot. Personally I am relieved that I am no longer walking over this bridge.

Beams

The Thoreau Falls Bridge is beautifully constructed from some of the largest native logs that I have ever seen. Additionally, it is very functional, located in a place where crossing the river can be dangerous. However, the bridge is quite old and getting quite haggard, and now the bridge has been damaged in Irene. See pictures here of a before and after (as well as pictures of the Pemi 12 hours after it had crested.) Storm Pictures I wonder if we could all collaborate with the Forest Service to discuss all of the options for this bridge. Perhaps we could come up with a solution that would help align both the Forest Service’s goals and our goals, whether it is to repair, remove, and/or replace the bridge. I may be naïve or even a little too hopeful, but I would like to believe that this will work out for the best.

 

[una_dogger]

Thanks again for your help last summer. I think we had a pretty good day and I know I got one heck of a workout!

Crazy pictures! I am surprised any foot bridge could survive those storm waters!


I don't think you are naive, just a good citizen. Carry on and count me in for any future volunteer efforts.

 

[Billy]

Wow. That photo of the river during the storm is amazing. Looks like ocean waves.