Safety gear conundrum.

[J.Dub]

In the gym or out jogging you tend to apply very symmetrical loads onto your musculoskeletal system. Especially the joints, ligaments, cartilage etc. We spend the interval between hikes on perfect surfaces: floors, sidewalks, stairs, treadmills or sitting on our rear ends. As a result there is little to no asymmetrical challenge, and little to no no effort to maintain one's balance on irregular surfaces.

^^^Iz troo.

Which is one of the reasons that the best training for hiking is...(wait for it)...hiking.

(is your rear end perfect?

Why...yes, it is. (Thanks for noticing! )

 

[Grumpy]

... An Olympian who was giving out advice recently said it well. "If you do something over and over again, you will get really good at it. You need to be determined and persistent." ...

I don't wish to distort that comment by taking it out of context. It provides a starting point, though.

We are told that, "practice makes perfect." Skilled musicians know better. They recognize the truth that "perfect practice makes perfect." Or, to put it in a negative frame, if you practice something wrong, you will get very good at doing it wrong.

In other words, mere repetition is not what makes us good at what we do. We have to engage the brain and exercise some good sense and discipline as we go (or even before we start).

My guess is that some (perhaps many) substantially inexperienced people who have done their homework well and prepared themselves mentally for their hikes may be better poised to survive mishaps or bum turns than some well "experienced" people who never really have had their heads in the survival game.

G.

 

[TEO]

However, the extra time that I took helping him with his snowshoe binding resulted in almost losing my cached stuff sack at the top of Jewell Trail (my "pack" at the col) on my return from Jefferson. Two skiers had "collected" it (despite seeing my name and note that "my life depends on this cache"); they had already transferred the water from my only bottle into one of theirs, repacked my pair of crampons, and stuffed my remaining gear into their packs.

Holy crap! I'm floored that they would do something so stupid & unethical. Stealing cached water & gear is one the lowest things that you can do in the mountains. What were their names?

 

[jfb]

As a result it behooves you to carry a heavy pack with sufficient gear to deal with the various case scenarios that you read about.

When I read those scenarios, I try to understand how to avoid them. It's usually not by carrying more gear.

 

[Chip]

... However, the extra time that I took helping him with his snowshoe binding resulted in almost losing my cached stuff sack at the top of Jewell Trail (my "pack" at the col) on my return from Jefferson. Two skiers had "collected" it (despite seeing my name and note that "my life depends on this cache"); they had already transferred the water from my only bottle into one of theirs, repacked my pair of crampons, and stuffed my remaining gear into their packs.

Wow. So you just came upon them clearing out the sack ? Did they just return everything to you ? What was their rationale/response ? That is unbelievable. I would have FREAKED OUT.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Wow. So you just came upon them clearing out the sack ? Did they just return everything to you ? What was their rationale/response ? That is unbelievable. I would have FREAKED OUT.

My reaction also -

 

[J.Dub]

I'm normally a pretty even-tempered kinda guy, but if this happened to me I'd be going all Daniel-san on these guys (crane stance) with a well-placed, crampon-laden boot to the crotch!

UN-AC-CEPTABLE...period.

 

[TEO]

I would think that they should be charged with attempted larceny at the least.

 

[Little Rickie]

I'm normally a pretty even-tempered kinda guy, but if this happened to me I'd be going all Daniel-san on these guys (crane stance) with a well-placed, crampon-laden boot to the crotch!

UN-AC-CEPTABLE...period.

Careful 2 against one, unless they slipped over the edge somehow.

They were proabably investment bankers for a mortgage company. You know, get all you can get and screw everyone else.

 

[sierra]

So you not just disagree but strongly dissagree that a person carrying more weight has a better chance of getting injured? Were not talking about having gear to take care of yourself after your injured but getting an injury in the first place. So you think a person having a 10 pound pack is just as likely to get an injury as a person carrying a 50 pound pack..the same person experienced or not?

Maybe I had a long day but I did not understand your post at all. My point might have been made badly excuse me Ill try again. I was thinking strictly about carrieing the normal required gear for a winter or summer hike verses say a 5 or 10 lb pack. Granted I hike alot so weight doest phase me much and ill take the extra gear any day. Ive done running descents on many occasions with my heavy winter pack with no problem. That being said a very heavy pack, say mulitple night pack can make steep technical terrain more dangerous, Ill have to conceed that. I remember coming off Jefferson once down the caps ridge, with a 55 lb Quartz rock in an already heavy load and yes I almost fell a few times. I think the general point has been made, the extra weight of the RIGHT gear will never outweigh (pun) the safety factor of carring it verses not having it.

 

[Little Rickie]

with a 55 lb Quartz rock in an already heavy load and yes I almost fell a few times

If you are not accustomed to the extra weight that would make things more difficult. You must have really wanted that rock.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

Holy crap! I'm floored that they would do something so stupid & unethical. Stealing cached water & gear is one the lowest things that you can do in the mountains. What were their names?

Not sure about criminal, but definitely unethical in my book. I laid my cache bag neatly behind a large cairn at the top of an uphill bushwhack to cut a corner on Jewell Trail to the Gulfside Trail. On my way back from Jefferson I observed them stopped at the cairn for some time before I met them coming towards me (skis on their backpacks). In fairness, they asked me if "I had dropped anything," to which I asked if they had seen my cache behind the cairn. At this point, I think that they were a little embarrassed as they stopped, dropped their large packs, and returned my stuff, including pouring my water back into my now empty bottle that I left nearly full in the cache (later tasted like crap, so not sure what was in their container; pee bottle?). I think that they were more stupid than malicious, but they did note that my cache was the second that they had picked up that day (they did not provide me with details about the other stuff). Both were young, tall, spoke good English (so, I am certain that they could read the words in magic marker on my cache bag "Please Do Not Disturb; My Life Depends on This Cache"), and really good skiers, judging by their ski tracks coming off the icy north side of Washington, especially given those huge backpacks. I am a back-country skier myself, so I do respect their skiing ability, just not their ethics.

 

[Tim Seaver]

An Antidote to Blown ACLs

The thing I like about antidotal stories is you can pick and choose which story best fits your position.

That's true to some extent, although this particular anecdotal story is is at least grounded in facts, unlike your hypothetical scenario which is strictly fictional. ( I am guessing you meant "anecdotal", although I would guess a good story may have "antidotal" properties if it can change the way people perceive an issue )

At the end of the day, I hope everyone can carry what they feel safe with for their mindset and experience level, so that they can enjoy the mountains in the way they feel is appropriate.

Vive la différence!

 

[sierra]

If you are not accustomed to the extra weight that would make things more difficult. You must have really wanted that rock.

It was gift to my mother who was diagnosed with very bad condition, the look on her face when I gave it to her, priceless.

 

[BlackBuffalo]

Once in a while I'll add a new safety item to my pack, if it doesn't weigh much. Got my first emergengy bivy this winter.

On the other hand I've been on moderate hikes in the woods, without my pack, while alone and no one knowing where I was so I guess I'm evening my odds.


DaveG.

 

[dr_wu002]

Once in a while I'll add a new safety item to my pack, if it doesn't weigh much. Got my first emergengy bivy this winter.

On the other hand I've been on moderate hikes in the woods, without my pack, while alone and no one knowing where I was so I guess I'm evening my odds.


DaveG.

I started carrying beer in my pack during 2009. Previously, I had never really ever carried beer -- not even on overnights. Now, I take it on just about every hike that I do: Presi Traverses, winter hikes, Pemi Loops, Bond Traverses, Great Range Traverses, trail runs and so on. It's definitely worth the addition weight -- which I freed up by leaving a number of useless items that I normally had taken in my pack at home.... this includes a bivy, extra water, clothes I never used and so on...

-Dr. Wu

 

[Little Rickie]

It was gift to my mother who was diagnosed with very bad condition, the look on her face when I gave it to her, priceless.

Good man...green for you!!!