Severe wind chills, why would one go to the summit

[Orsonab]

I'd say the short answer is : "To feel alive" - and to appreciate the warmth when you get out of that damn wind!

 

[peakbagger]

I have heard second hand but have not confirmed that the NH SAR folks have a protocol which calls out when it is too dangerous to go out for a rescue. That would be an interesting document to review.

 

[dug]

Because it is there.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

My personal experience is that when I was 265 pounds and a couch potato, I was much warmer than I am at 195 pounds and a fairly avid recreational athlete. I have always been a profuse sweater, so pretty much any increase in activity for even a short time will get me beading up (5 minutes on the treadmill at a brisk walk is enough) -- fit or not, 'insulated' or not. I am one to not stop for very long as I tend to get a chill. If I am planning to be stopped, I'll usually bring a dry shirt -- hard to change in winter above tree line, I admit. When XC skiing, I always change prior to eating lunch, so that I'm not wet while eating, nor am I wet when I go back out afterwards.

My daughter has always run hot -- fewer blankets, less clothing in the winter while my son runs colder -- more blankets and more clothing. It varies by each individual.

Oh, and the first time I went swimming after losing 70 pounds I was shocked that I sank like a stone!

Tim

 

[Mike P.]

If it's clear & cold the views are awesome, it's also a chance to wear all that stuff I carry all winter. If you never were going to wear it, why bring it.

As far as going up to the summit. On a zero degree day with a -70 windchill the windspeed would be more of a determinig factor, then windchill.

Windchill should only be an issue if you do not have wind-proof clothing & coverings for your fingers, feet & face.

Bathroom breaks in this kind of weather should be done out of the wind!

As far as thinner or more rounded, Kurt Diemberger was one of the few people to get back from K-2 alive back in 1986. Sherpa K & have been emulated his fitness program for years.

(Sorry Paul - okay not really or I wouldn't have done it - for throwing you under the bus with me!)

 

[giggy]

I guess it depends on the situation. sometimes, I feel its not worth the BS for no views, being etc... sometimes it is - depends if I am irritable male syndrome male sydrome.(IMS) mode or not. you get guys with IMS and women with PMS on the same trip and add high winds and cold to that - no good. bomb waiting to go off.

hey davesunra - were in tucks in 12/16 weekend - thought I might have seen you - but wasn't sure, so i didn't say anything.

anyway - I live by this motto:

do a little dance
make a little love
have fun tonight.

bottom line - i don't enjoy minus 60+ wind chills.

 

[mtnpa]

Ok, say you're off to summit Washington, day trip via winter loin's head. Leaving Pinkham forcaste calls -40 to -50 with wind chill. You get to Hermit Lake and now the ranger post a new update: -60 to -70. Got got all the gear, experince and an equal hiking partner. Twenty degree delta difference colder, servere cold. Would you go for the summit?

I think I would go to the top of loins head and check it out. But I don't believe I would go for the summit.

I'd turn around at Pinkham and wait for the Red Fox to open

 

[giggy]

I'd turn around at Pinkham and wait for the Red Fox to open

or better yet - have some cold ones in the car waiting

 

[cbcbd]

do a little dance
make a little love
get down tonight.

there, corrected that for you.

 

[Double Bow]

Way I see it, you've got two options: get busy livin', or get busy dyin'.

I choose to live and I head out with the right gear when I feel the risk isn't too great (non-whiteout, avy, hurricane, plague, etc.).

That said, if I just wanted to be warm and confortable all winter, I wouldn't leave my house. As long as I'm not going to be airborn and I've got lively company, I'm liable to head out in almost any weather (though I hate 35 degree rain).

 

[sardog1]

We need some scientific studies.

This is similar to the "how much pack weight is too much". I doubt body fat helps with frostbite. Low body fat types are more susceptible to hypothermia, but if you're more fit then you're not working as hard. I believe a bit too fit is generally safer than a bit too fat. As always, I'm sure there are exceptions.

Body fat, aka blubber, is the most effective insulation available to animals, and it serves as an energy store as well. That's why most marine mammals have it. That's why Lynne Cox, the premier cold water swimmer in the world, has it in "Reubenesque" proportions.

Body fat "helps with frostbite" by keeping the core warm. When the core is warm, the body's homeothermic regulation allows warm blood to continue to circulate to the extremities. When the core gets hypothermic, circulation to the extremities is reduced, to preserve the core, the brain, and their "vital" functions. Without that warm blood, your extremities become more susceptible to frostbite.

Yes, I'd rather be a little bit fat in the winter. And I can carry that extra weight just fine if I train to do it.

 

[snowbird]

Body fat does, however, while insulating your core, also prevent your body heat from getting out to, and warming, your skin which is where you feel the cold. That is why MY butt often feels cold - when in fact it ought to be the warmest part of me. I also believe this is why women, who typically have more body fat than men, usually feel cold sooner than men, but often hold up better than similarly sized (but leaner) men in hypothermic conditions.

Or at least, that's my theory.

 

[DaveSunRa]

hey davesunra - were in tucks in 12/16 weekend - thought I might have seen you - but wasn't sure, so i didn't say anything.

anyway - I live by this motto:

do a little dance
make a little love
have fun tonight.

bottom line - i don't enjoy minus 60+ wind chills.

Yep, we had a good size group that weekend. One of our friends from Co had a fatal accident during the summer on a 13k peak in Co. He had always wanted to climb Mt Washington. So we had a service for him at the summit with some of his ashes.

I like your motto. Also, I'm with you, pass on the minus 60 wind chills. The views are just as good at minus 30 or 40.

 

[giggy]

dam - that was you - I recall meeting you there last year same place - you guys had just hiked up and were at hojos - (pretty nasty day) and I was there on the porch waiting to head up. I friggin should have said something.

I was up there that sat and sunday. not sure what day i saw you - I thought it was you b/c of the goofing around was similar to last year - and I admire that! what a crap day for a summit though.



sorry about your freind.

 

[sardog1]

Body fat does, however, while insulating your core, also prevent your body heat from getting out to, and warming, your skin which is where you feel the cold. That is why MY butt often feels cold - when in fact it ought to be the warmest part of me. I also believe this is why women, who typically have more body fat than men, usually feel cold sooner than men, but often hold up better than similarly sized (but leaner) men in hypothermic conditions.

Or at least, that's my theory.

As a group, women are smaller than men. Large size favors men as a group in cold conditions, because the ratio of skin area to volume is lower for them, hence less cooling. From Oceanlink:

As an animal increases in size, there is proportionately less skin area exposed relative to their total body mass, and therefore, less heat loss to the environment. You can use sugar cubes to illustrate this statement. In one sugar cube, the surface area is 6 square centimetres and the volume is 1 cubic centimetre. Therefore the surface area to volume ratio is 6:1. If you make a new cube using 8 sugar cubes, the surface area to volume ratio is now 24:8 or 3:1. So proportionately, there is less surface area exposed in the large cube structure. If these cubes were animals (say a mouse vs. an elephant) it would be harder for the smaller animal to keep warm, due to the increased heat loss across the body surface.

For equal-sized men and women, yes, I'd agree, the more body fat that the women have favors them over the men.

 

[likeitsteep]

Body fat, aka blubber, is the most effective insulation available to animals, and it serves as an energy store as well. That's why most marine mammals have it. That's why Lynne Cox, the premier cold water swimmer in the world, has it in "Reubenesque" proportions.

Body fat "helps with frostbite" by keeping the core warm. When the core is warm, the body's homeothermic regulation allows warm blood to continue to circulate to the extremities. When the core gets hypothermic, circulation to the extremities is reduced, to preserve the core, the brain, and their "vital" functions. Without that warm blood, your extremities become more susceptible to frostbite.

Yes, I'd rather be a little bit fat in the winter. And I can carry that extra weight just fine if I train to do it.

how much is a little bit fat?

 

[likeitsteep]

i'll bet my daughter in my avatar would never get cold on top of washington. lol

 

[sardog1]

how much is a little bit fat?

Ideally, I'd like to look like an Inuit for winter purposes. I'm a little taller (read: relatively more exposed surface area on my limbs), so I have that handicap to overcome. See Adapting to Climate Regimes.

 

[JohnL]

Back on topic:

Sometimes when the mountain is tempestuous, it passes along a special gift, a beauty that is always hidden during its benign moments. However, because of the special feeling the mountain gives to you in these instances, it can extract a price from you, a toll of sorts that you must pay in order to be a recipient of this gift.

Three of us climbed Mt Adams from Grey Knob camp early one March on a day so clear it made you believe you could see beyond the earth’s curvature. It was ten below zero and the winds were quite steady at about 50mph. Spindrift was blowing all around our ankles, the wind packed snow sounded and felt like firm Styrofoam while the wind virtually roared so loud we had to yell at each other from ten feet away to make ourselves heard. The crystal clear jaw dropping views and the raw power of the roaring wind and the numbing cold made me giddy with exhilaration and yet at the same time I was utterly and incontinently terrified. It was as if a large cat was allowing me to walk back to the safety of my camp, but with a gleam in his eye that told me that he could take me down any time he wanted.

On that day the mountain gave me a feeling that I’ll never forget. That’s why I go up toward the summit on days like this. But I now keep a close watch on the cat’s eye. When that look in his eye changes, it’s time to head back down.

JohnL

 

[sardog1]

Back on topic:

Sometimes when the mountain is tempestuous, it passes along a special gift, a beauty that is always hidden during its benign moments. However, because of the special feeling the mountain gives to you in these instances, it can extract a price from you, a toll of sorts that you must pay in order to be a recipient of this gift.

Three of us climbed Mt Adams from Grey Knob camp early one March on a day so clear it made you believe you could see beyond the earth’s curvature. It was ten below zero and the winds were quite steady at about 50mph. Spindrift was blowing all around our ankles, the wind packed snow sounded and felt like firm Styrofoam while the wind virtually roared so loud we had to yell at each other from ten feet away to make ourselves heard. The crystal clear jaw dropping views and the raw power of the roaring wind and the numbing cold made me giddy with exhilaration and yet at the same time I was utterly and incontinently terrified. It was as if a large cat was allowing me to walk back to the safety of my camp, but with a gleam in his eye that told me that he could take me down any time he wanted.

On that day the mountain gave me a feeling that I’ll never forget. That’s why I go up toward the summit on days like this. But I now keep a close watch on the cat’s eye. When that look in his eye changes, it’s time to head back down.

JohnL

That is one fine piece of mountain writing. Thanks for sharing it!