Sleeping Bag Cover

[DayTrip]

Ponds, especially when frozen, afford the same opportunities much of the time. I hate the wind so most of my camping is on the shores of ponds in the winter for the same reasons you like the summits.

That's a pretty good point. I can't think of many ponds though that afford the same type of dramatic views as some of the smaller summits would. I'll have to take that into consideration as I plot out possible hikes for the Winter.

 

[dave.m]

One way to reduce weight on winter trips above treeline is to use the RMC camps. No need to carry a tent.

I find winter hiking tedious on flat ground. Going up with crampons is fine but slogging in snow sucks, IMO. For me, winter means ski touring and ski touring means rivers, rail road grade trails and ponds - places I normally don't go in the summer. The Pemi from Lincoln Woods, the Rob Brook area and the Sawyer Pond area all great.

I live a lot of my life sleep deprived so I don't mind the long nights of sleep for a couple of nights.

Related, I prefer to winter camp with at least one other partner. Things go badly fast in the winter and having a reliable partner adds safety an lowers the weight of community gear (tent, stove, pots).

Pine Island by Pinnah, on Flickr

 

[Brambor]

I don't want to hijack the thread but I'm curious...in touring rivers...how often do you encounter slush and what are your top three overnight river ski tours?

One way to reduce weight on winter trips above treeline is to use the RMC camps. No need to carry a tent.

I find winter hiking tedious on flat ground. Going up with crampons is fine but slogging in snow sucks, IMO. For me, winter means ski touring and ski touring means rivers, rail road grade trails and ponds - places I normally don't go in the summer. The Pemi from Lincoln Woods, the Rob Brook area and the Sawyer Pond area all great.

I live a lot of my life sleep deprived so I don't mind the long nights of sleep for a couple of nights.

Related, I prefer to winter camp with at least one other partner. Things go badly fast in the winter and having a reliable partner adds safety an lowers the weight of community gear (tent, stove, pots).

Pine Island by Pinnah, on Flickr

 

[Tom_Murphy]

Realize for some gearing up for winter camping is great escapism as a break from the routine world, they get a buzz off the planning and acquisition of the gear even though its likely that the gear will not get used much.

While I don't get any particular joy from the ownership of the gear itself (the gear has been a means to an end, similar to rope and harness for a rock climber) I am guilty as charged for the rest of it.

I thoroughly enjoy the entire process - trip planning, packing, the drive up, the few last minutes at the trailhead before the plunge, the cold, the silence, the solitude, the need to be vigilant.

In the winter, I can camp a few short miles from the trailhead still feel a wonderful sense of wildness. The open woods with a fresh coat of snow under a full moon bright enough that you don't need your headlamp...

Tommy

P.S. I was particularly happy when the cost of my winter bag divided by the number of winter bag nights went below than the cost of a hotel room in Lincoln or Conway.

 

[DayTrip]

While I don't get any particular joy from the ownership of the gear itself (the gear has been a means to an end, similar to rope and harness for a rock climber) I am guilty as charged for the rest of it.

I thoroughly enjoy the entire process - trip planning, packing, the drive up, the few last minutes at the trailhead before the plunge, the cold, the silence, the solitude, the need to be vigilant.

In the winter, I can camp a few short miles from the trailhead still feel a wonderful sense of wildness. The open woods with a fresh coat of snow under a full moon bright enough that you don't need your headlamp...

Tommy

P.S. I was particularly happy when the cost of my winter bag divided by the number of winter bag nights went below than the cost of a hotel room in Lincoln or Conway.

Ditto. I L-O-V-E the planning process, going over maps, picking destinations, futzing over the gear to bring, researching new gear, etc, etc. Spend most weeknights with a sporting event of some sort on the TV while I'm planning the next trip up.

I think I'm actually coming around to your suggestion to try a 3 season tent. If people can camp comfortably under a pyramid tarp with no floor I would think I can get by on a fairly nice night in a 3 season tent. The one I have now is a tad heavier than I'd like but certainly doable versus my 4 season behemoth. I've come to the conclusion that a lighter, more applicable tent for Winter would be nice and a lighter pack would also be nice but they really aren't necessary for me right now. My current sleeping bag however is not going to cut it and is a necessary purchase so that is what I'm going to get first. From there I can evaluate if I will actually do Winter camping on a regular basis and decide if another tent is worth the money. Seeing a lot of discounts on stuff and the first promo coupons for Columbus Day are starting to hit my email so probably a good time to get a bag before it starts getting too cold for my old one.

 

[peakbagger]

Must admit my winter bag gets used for car camping as much as for deep winter expeditions.

I definitely agree that solo winter camping adds a lot more risk compared to group camping. The first thing to go is the mind when hypothermia starts to creep in. Therefore thinking that self awareness of potential hypothermia may sound fine at home but when in the woods in the winter is definitely a bad choice. Standard winter training is that members of the group need to look out for each other to detect things like frostbite or hypothermia. More than a few experienced winter hiker rescues over the years have been where a group has separated for one reason or another and one of the members makes a bad decision. I remember one in particular where an experienced hiker in a group split off from a routine winter hike on the Crawford path (which is generally considered a very safe entry level winter hike) and he ended up getting off trail into a drainage getting wet and hypothermic. He needed rescue and lost part of his foot. We ran into him a year or two later on the Crawford Path in winter and he freely admitted that he was amazed he did what he did even though he should have known better.

 

[JoshandBaron]

If people can camp comfortably under a pyramid tarp with no floor I would think I can get by on a fairly nice night in a 3 season tent.

I do it with a hammock in -25 with no tarp much of the time. I think you'll be fine.

 

[Brambor]

two years ago I slept below Galehead in Big Agnes Fly Creek 1 during a snowstorm. It can be done

I do it with a hammock in -25 with no tarp much of the time. I think you'll be fine.

 

[sierra]

The more I research this the more I find myself going around in a circle. My main goal is cutting the weight of the gear I have so I can actually solo camp in Winter. With that in mind I wanted to get a good down bag for the warmth and the weight. But they are really not in my budget right now with the other things I need. So I've looked at a variety of ideas presented here to cut weight and extend the life of my bag. It seems like they won't be cost effective for the benefit gained or they'll work but won't give me much if any weight savings. Then I started finding pretty good synthetic bags with sub-zero temp ratings that are in the budget. But they're heavy - as heavy as the bag stacking options and other stuff I was trying to do. Which brings me back around to getting a good down bag....which I can't afford right now.

When you say you use a basic pad with the -30 deg bag are you talking inflatable or foam type pad? If I cut out the inflatable pad it would offset the weight of a good synthetic bag, which might make sense for me and fit in the budget.

I'm talking about your most basic foam cell pad. If you have the right bag, it is all you need. For the record, I bought my synthetic bag from IME consignment shop. Paid 130.00 bucks for it. It was great, one night it got to 30 below and I was warm, granted, I had the rip cord pulled tight. I never could justify buying one of those expensive bags, I'd rather just stuff and carry the weight. I bought a compression bag with three straps, it really helped. I also never considered a bag with a lower rating. Being solo, your bag is your last line of defense. If you get injured or caught in an epic storm, you don't want to rely on weight saving, not quite what you need gear. Just my opinion.

 

[dave.m]

I don't want to hijack the thread but I'm curious...in touring rivers...how often do you encounter slush and what are your top three overnight river ski tours?

Brambor,

To clarify, we ski on trails that more or less follow rivers. Generally don't ski on the rivers, per se. Never the less, yes, slush and water are an issue in the recurring stream crossings. Water or slush can easily ice up either "no-wax" scales or kick wax. I've developed a pretty good stomp and slide technique to clear the skis, but tossing a pole in teh snow and sliding skis back and forth on the pole is some times called for. Or, take the skis off and scrape the ice off with the other ski as a last resort.

Older no-wax skis sometimes need to be touched up with a torch to burn off the p-tex "feathers" that trail off of worn scales and collect water and of course, treating them with kick wax (brush with a stiff brush when it's still warm and soft) or F4 paste works too.

We live in Boston and most of my tours are in the Whites. Some favorites include:
- Numerous locations off of either Wilderness Trail or East Side Trail out of the Lincoln Woods trail head on the Kank. I cried when they removed the old suspension bridge, as that made a nice loop.
- The Hitchcock Loop: Enter on Hitchcock trail, head northish on Cedar Brook up and over height of land, down to East Side trail and exit at Lincoln Woods.
- The eastern end of the Upper Nanamacomuk trail. Anything in along the Rob Brook forest service road. The old Rob Brook trail if you can find it! These are all accessed from the Rob Brook/Nanacomuk trail head on the southern end of Bear Notch Road.
- And end-end trip. Lilly Pond east on Upper Nanamacomuk to Sawyer River Trail to Sawyer Pond Trail to Sawyer Pond. South on Sawyer Pond to Birch Hill area and east along ski-doo trail to Rob Brook Road and out to Bear Notch. Can also be done as an in/out trip along Rob Brook Road.
- Rocky Branch from Jericho Road. The first mile and half stinks due to the road skiing and the trip is complicated by the bridge being out now.
- Tunnel Brook ponds from the southern end of Tunnel Brook trail.

All of these trips have great camping opportunities. Once you get comfortable with a trucker's hitch and dead fall anchor technique, you can reliaably through down a tent anywhere it's flat enough to sleep.

I think East Side Trail is a great place to start. Relatively easy skiing once you get past the dog walker crowd (who insist on walking in the ski tracks). Easy tenting at the tent sight area. Enough regular foot traffic that if you really mess up, there's a bit of chance of getting some help. Much better than screwing up in a more remote place like, say, the middle of the Upper Nana.

I think the eastern end of the Upper Nana is a really stunning spot. Its on my short list of places I like to return to and continue to explore.

 

[DayTrip]

I also never considered a bag with a lower rating. Being solo, your bag is your last line of defense. If you get injured or caught in an epic storm, you don't want to rely on weight saving, not quite what you need gear. Just my opinion.

That is a good point. When I day hike I have plenty of stuff for emergencies (Gore Tex bivy, extreme puffy, etc) but on an overnight I would likely not have those because of the camping gear in it's place so a hard core bag really would be an emergency item as well as a comfort item. I think that settles it for me.

 

[DayTrip]

I don't want to hijack the thread but

Hijack away! I got a lot of great info out of the thread and think I am clear on what I should be doing now.

 

[JoshandBaron]

you don't want to rely on weight saving, not quite what you need gear. Just my opinion.

Lightweight doesn't have to be a safety compromise. My deep winter system is rated to -60 bottom/-50 top and probably weighs less than just your bag.

 

[DayTrip]

Lightweight doesn't have to be a safety compromise. My deep winter system is rated to -60 bottom/-50 top and probably weighs less than just your bag.

What are the components of your system?

 

[Tom_Murphy]

Lightweight doesn't have to be a safety compromise. My deep winter system is rated to -60 bottom/-50 top and probably weighs less than just your bag.

Lightweight doesn't have to be a safety compromise but it can be very expensive.

 

[jfb]

Several years ago, I was considering buying a high quality down sleeping bag and thought the cost was too high. A couple of days later, I received my annual bill for auto insurance which was higher than the cost of the bag. I thought that the bag could be considered a form of life insurance and hesitated no longer.

 

[JoshandBaron]

What are the components of your system?

I hammock camp exclusively so my system is very modular. I run hot so am able to push an item usually about 5* lower than its rating comfortably.

TQ's:
0* UGQ Bandit 800 fill - $200 22oz
20* Warbonnet Mamba 850 fill - $250 19oz
40* HG Burrow 800 fill - $120 16oz
40* EE Prodigy CS APEX - $160 19oz

UQ's:
-20* UGQ Ambush 800 fill - $265 29oz
20* WB full length Lynx 850 fill - $240 17oz
20* WB torso length Lynx 850 fill - $220 13oz
30* 2Ts custom torso length CS APEX - $80 16 oz


I haven't gone lower than -30* but for that night I ran the 0* UGQ and 20* WB on top with the -20* UGQ and full length 20* WB on bottom. Under 5.5 lbs for both top and bottom insulation combined. -50 rating on top and -70 on bottom. It was the most comfortable night I have ever spent in the woods.

 

[sierra]

Lightweight doesn't have to be a safety compromise. My deep winter system is rated to -60 bottom/-50 top and probably weighs less than just your bag.

I'm aware that is possible. My comment was a direct reply to the OP's reference to piecing together components of moderate temp ratings as well as low price.

 

[DayTrip]

I hammock camp exclusively so my system is very modular. I run hot so am able to push an item usually about 5* lower than its rating comfortably.

TQ's:
0* UGQ Bandit 800 fill - $200 22oz
20* Warbonnet Mamba 850 fill - $250 19oz
40* HG Burrow 800 fill - $120 16oz
40* EE Prodigy CS APEX - $160 19oz

UQ's:
-20* UGQ Ambush 800 fill - $265 29oz
20* WB full length Lynx 850 fill - $240 17oz
20* WB torso length Lynx 850 fill - $220 13oz
30* 2Ts custom torso length CS APEX - $80 16 oz


I haven't gone lower than -30* but for that night I ran the 0* UGQ and 20* WB on top with the -20* UGQ and full length 20* WB on bottom. Under 5.5 lbs for both top and bottom insulation combined. -50 rating on top and -70 on bottom. It was the most comfortable night I have ever spent in the woods.

Nice. I wish I had enjoyed hammock camping more this Summer. It would have fit nicely with my summit objectives being able to pitch it on uneven terrain. Just felt weird to me and wasn't as easy as I thought finding spots in the trees. I knew the uneven ground would not be a huge factor but I really didn't take into account how tight the trees were and the difficulty of trying to rig a tarp, etc.

And I am the reverse of you. I tend to run pretty cold so my comfort level is probably more like 10 deg above the bag's rating to be comfortable. So a hard core sleeping bag probably makes the most sense for me. Just unzip it and get in. No screwing around.

 

[JoshandBaron]

Finding suitable trees is a lot more difficult than most people realize. Above 2500 feet is a total crap shoot.