Snowmobiling for Hikers

[Papa Bear]

I got to thinking a liitle today about snowmobiling. There was an article in the NY Times Vermont’s Highways of Snow. I also recall the discussion about winter access to the western Maine sisx-pack and how prominant the snowmobile trails are in the area.

I always thought of THEM as THE ENEMY but I guess I'm getting mellower with age. Getting away from US vs. THEM and relaxing a little.

So here are some questions:

Anyone on this list an active snowmobiler?

I have read the "old" ones are noisey and smelly, but newer ones are quieter and cleaner. Is this true? Would any type be even remotely green?

Can you get away from it all and have some of the wilderness to yourself? Or is that a contradiction in terms?

Would any one be comfortable using one in the winter like we would a car in summer to get to a peak? BSP comes to mind. It would be great to start one's hike from Roaring Brook rather than the Golden Road at the Abol Bridge.

I know purists would rail against this: "THAT DOESN'T COUNT!!, THAT'S AGAINST THE RULES!". But I've done what lists I think I might finish (which for winter is NONE) and I don't much care about the rules as perhaps I once did. Wouldn't it be fun to bag Peaked up in The County with an assist from a snow machine?

Any other comments? I guess the main thing I would like is to get off away from everyone and (quietly) enjoy some wilderness that would otherwise be inaccessible.

HERESY!!

 

[TDawg]

"....It's odd, but being on a motor vehicle puts you in touch with nature."

I have a hard time buying that one. Nature doesn't sound like a chainsaw.

 

[spider solo]

Had one got rid of it.
I have a particular dislike for them after watching my wife jump for dear life, narrowly escaping being run over by one.
However
A friend of mine was thinking of needing one to access a winter peak up in Quebec ...Proulx or something like that I think.

Other than use as a rescue vehicle can't think of any place in the States, or at least the East, where they would be of any use to you for peakbagging.

very brave of you to bring the subject up though,...kind of like bringing up the topic of jet powered kayaks over on paddling .net...
bon chance

 

[dentonfabrics]

I Getting away from US vs. THEM and relaxing a little.

Good philosophy. I agree with you. I was in Nash Steam Forest yesterday and was walking a snowmobile trail to Victor Head and was appreciative that the trail was so beautifully packed down.

I've never ridden a snowmobile and probably never will. I cant remember the last time I saw or heard one when I was on a trail. (Wait....yes I can. It was last year on the road to Elbow Pond.)

You can take a sled most of the way up Moosilauke but I dont think that any proper list-keeping hiker would check the Moose off of the winter list if they went up in a snowmobile.


bob

 

[Barbarossa]

I'll drive 300 miles in a day to bag a peak so obscure that a lot of people on this board haven't heard of it, never mind the general population. The odds are greater of seeing a moose than seeing another person. I'll drive home exhausted to take a hot shower and sleep in a warm bed.

This day in the woods was brought to you by:

The Internal Combustion Engine

&

Asphalt!​

 

[Motabobo]

Anyone on this list an active snowmobiler?

I certainly wish I was

 

[Enapai]

Snowmobiling

Well Papa Bear - Since I live in VT with a VAST trail right behind my house, let me try to answer your questions. It should be noted that I have owned snowmobiles in the past and greatly enjoyed riding them throughout the State of Vermont and into New Hampshire.

So here are some questions:

Anyone on this list an active snowmobiler?

Yes I both ride a snowmobile and hike in the winter.

I have read the "old" ones are noisey and smelly, but newer ones are quieter and cleaner. Is this true? Would any type be even remotely green?

Snowmobiles are ever changing. Most models today utilize 4 stroke engine technology (like an automobile) or some form of computerized injection to make the 2 stroke engine equal to a 4 stroke machine. This is supposed to make the sleds more in line with automobiles in terms of exhaust. If nothing else, this greatly improves the gas milage of snowmobiles. Having ridden both newer and older models, the exhaust of new models is moderately less obnoxious. Regarding noise, (living close to both a snowmobile trail and a major highway) I would have to say the noise is about the same (the snowmobiles make a little more), though there are the older two stoke models that still go by sounding like a chainsaw.

Can you get away from it all and have some of the wilderness to yourself? Or is that a contradiction in terms?

I don't see this as a contradiction. Here in the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont, there are snowmobile trails that are in the middle of nowhere on old paper company land were there is no one around for miles. Truth be told, I have seen more wildlife (moose, deer, turkeys, birds) snowmobiling than I have ever seen winter hiking. The reason for this is that some of the snowmobile trails are as remote as hiking trails and the snowmobile trails are nicely groomed, making them much easier to walk on that 4-5 feet of powder snow. The problem is that the Northeast Kingdom is the exception to most areas of New England in terms of development and urban sprawl. In the Chittenden County (Burlington, VT) area, there are few snowmobile trails left and those that exist often receive complaints because of noise, reckless riders, and the like. Away from the sprawl, there are plenty of places each can have to their own.

Would any one be comfortable using one in the winter like we would a car in summer to get to a peak? BSP comes to mind. It would be great to start one's hike from Roaring Brook rather than the Golden Road at the Abol Bridge.

To say that snowmobiles have no place to legitimately assist in winter hiking in New England is a slight understatement in my opinion. If one wanted to hike the Essex County highpoint in VT (East Mountain where the old radar base is located) it might be easier in the winter as there is a snowmobile trail that goes right up the road right to where the lower base was situated. (I think currently due to asbestos the summit is closed to all parties). I am aware people use sleds to access hiking locales in BSP as well. Using a snowmachine to assist in getting to a destination is an individual decision and other people's opinion should not impact anyone not getting out there to enjoy nature.

Any other comments? I guess the main thing I would like is to get off away from everyone and (quietly) enjoy some wilderness that would otherwise be inaccessible.

I guess I should preface this post a little bit. I sold my snowmobile this winter, not because of my opposition to the sport, but rather, it has become quite cost prohibitive. Due to having a newborn, I knew my personal time was going to be increasingly limited and I would prefer to be out hiking to out riding a snowmobile.

Overall, I think there are some places where common ground between both snowmobilers and hikers could be found. Both enjoy being outdoors and both want to have large tracks of land protected for their individual sports. In this day and age where money for wilderness areas is increasingly drying up, finding multiple uses for land we all cherish may ultimately require a compromise. That being said, don't buy the hype that snowmobiles are suddenly these "green" machines that have minimal impact on the environment.

Just my .02.

 

[timmus]

If I'm at mile 15 of a 20 miles day, and a snowmobiler pass by and offers a ride back to my car, I WILL GO FOR IT.

Peakbagging without applying for a patch doesn't have any regulations, and this is what I, find relaxing.

And you are right :

if a car can take you to trailhead in summer, why a snowmobile couldn't take you there in winter

I think this is a very interesting point.

 

[cushetunk]

I guess the main thing I would like is to get off away from everyone and (quietly) enjoy some wilderness that would otherwise be inaccessible.

I hear this is becoming popular with backcountry skiers out west -- they sled into spots that would otherwise require long slogs and overnight campouts.

While I have nothing against snowmobiles personally (I used them plenty in a former job) I worry that in some places they push the effective "wildness" boundary further away from the day traveler's parking lot. Not cool for those who choose not to snowmobile.

But really, most places in Maine outside of Baxter and Grafton Notch, I think sledders already outnumber hikers, so I doubt there is much of an issue.

 

[peakbagger]

A big change from the old days of snowmachines is that they have been optimized for speed which usually means a narrow track and big engine. Thats fine for groomed trails but makes them a lot less capable of breaking their own trail. One of major complaints years ago was that a minority of folks like to chase wildlife, that is a lot more unlikely these days unless the snow conditions are perfect as the sleds will sink into the uncompacted snow.

A few years ago I was cross country skiing near a major snow machine route, in an area posted for no snowmachines off the groomed trail. I noticed that once I skied in the snow, that was enough compaction for the sleds to go off trail and follow my track. So a little later I changed my technique a bit and would find two closely spaced trees to ski between once I got out in the woods a bit.

So if you are thinking of going off the beaten track, make sure you find a sled that is optimized for ungroomed riding (if anyone still makes one).

 

[Sheomet]

Anyone on this list an active snowmobiler?

I love snowmobiling, it's all I do in the winter, in fact I just came from a 200 mile ride from Millinocket, up to Baxter, over to Greenville and back. I love it because I can see so much scenery in one day that is impossible to do while hiking.

I have read the "old" ones are noisey and smelly, but newer ones are quieter and cleaner. Is this true? Would any type be even remotely green?

This is true, especially the new 4 strokes, however even some of those are pretty loud, but many of the lower power 4 strokes are so quiet that you can't even hear them running. The new 2 strokes are also much cleaner now and use very little oil because the snowmobile manufacturers have had to meet new EPA emission limits. My sled is a 2003 so it is not very emissions friendly, my next sled will be a 4 stroke.

Can you get away from it all and have some of the wilderness to yourself? Or is that a contradiction in terms?

Well on my 5 hour ride today I saw 8 or 10 other sleds, that is probably less people than the winter climbers in Baxter will see, saw some beautiful views of Katahdin and the surrounding lakes, and watched 3 deer for 10 minutes.

Would any one be comfortable using one in the winter like we would a car in summer to get to a peak? BSP comes to mind. It would be great to start one's hike from Roaring Brook rather than the Golden Road at the Abol Bridge.

I don't hike in the winter so I don't really have an opinion on that. However I have ridden my sled to the top of Magalloway, Stub Hill, Dixville Peak, Sugarloaf in Nash Stream, etc on the trails that go up them, do those count as winter ascents? And those bumpy trails in Baxter aren't very enjoyable to ride on, I rode the Tote Rd last week, god it's rough.

Any other comments? I guess the main thing I would like is to get off away from everyone and (quietly) enjoy some wilderness that would otherwise be inaccessible.

Maybe you should try renting a 4 stroke sled sometime, you just might like it!

 

[Tom Rankin]

Doing the Cat 100, we've taken advantage of a few snowmobile trails. I've met a few folks out near Bradley Pond, and they usually stop and make sure you are ok. After all, if you are walking on a snowmobile trail, it's possible you were recently on a snowmobile that just broke down.

 

[kltilton]

My father in law has 2 snowmobiles that I have ridden and I have grown up around them all my life. I prefer to get into the woods under my own power, but I know many people who have a greater appreciation for the outdoors because they were able to access places via snowmobile that they may never see on foot.

I do a lot of running and snowshoe running on snowmobile trails in winter and have never been run off the trail or almost hit. Most snowmobilers are very consciencious of others and ride safe.

 

[Orsonab]

As far as "does it count?": can't see what the difference is between driving to a summer trailhead by car or the same trailhead by snowmobile in winter. For some people, skiing or snowshoeing to, say, the summer traillhead of the Signal Ridge trail for Carrigain is impractical or beyond their physical limits. A snowmobile might bring some winter peaks back to within their range. Would skiing or snowshoeing be quieter and more pleasant for the rest of us? Sure. But they're not my mountains - they belong to all users, whatever modes of transportation they want to use.

And I hope my "It's All Good" attitiude gets me a lift on one some day!

 

[spider solo]

if a car can take you to trailhead in summer, why a snowmobile couldn't take you there in winter

I think this is a very interesting point.

Mostly because a car is confined to the roads and a snowmobile goes off road to the far reaches that a car can't.
Making matters worse the snowmobile is often driven by car or truck to it's starting point plus then it takes off from there.
Leaving many with the feeling that there is no escaping the omnipresents of motorized play toys.

If I hike 10 miles and a snowmobile pulls up I am bummed-out.
Same on the water ..paddle for a day and a jet ski comes whizzing by it like "is there no escape" ??

so those are a couple of reasons...like I mentioned I had one & got rid off it.

 

[Rick]

I had a skidoo in the 70's and 80's. Also been the proud owner of go karts, motorcycles and the like. I'd love to get another sled, but there isn't enough snow here or back home in western NY. I have been thinking about getting a 4x4 utility quad bike to replace the Kubota and mow the acres, Hate parting with the money though.

There are a lot of legal trails and old fire and logging roads in PA to ride quad bikes on (and I firmly beleive there is enough room for everyone). Problem is that I hate stinking of exhaust fumes and having something else to take care of.

 

[Grayjay]

There are trails that I go up in the winter that are packed down by sleds. But I want to get back to the old fashioned prejedice for a moment and say they are a pain in the ass. "Progess" includes freeways and now, hundreds of miles of snowmobile trails where they scream by like killer bees. The fact that you can see more wildlife from a snowmobile means that you can also threaten it more as well. Is it naive to long for the days when it took three days driving to get to the mountains, and all you could hear was the wind in the trees?

 

[RoySwkr]

As far as "does it count?": can't see what the difference is between driving to a summer trailhead by car or the same trailhead by snowmobile in winter.

Some hikers make an exception for Baxter Park but I suspect the consensus would be that using one would make you a slacker

The AMC 4k Club specifically disallows this, as it does use of ATVs, because most members would rather see fewer gas-guzzlers in the woods rather than encouraging their use.

They do not forbid use of snowmobile trails or tracks, and I can imagine that hiring a snowmobile to break out the trail for you could help in some cases. I think the new rules in Pittsburg forbid snowmobiling up Stub Hill or else I'd ask that guy to tell me the next time he rode up

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

Never have owned a motorized sled, but have used them for research projects, such as on Baffin Island. Huge adrenalin rush to crank those babies out over 70 mph on a frozen fjord surface.

 

[Mad Townie]

Would any one be comfortable using one in the winter like we would a car in summer to get to a peak? BSP comes to mind. It would be great to start one's hike from Roaring Brook rather than the Golden Road at the Abol Bridge.

Snowmobiles are only allowed on the Perimeter Road ("Tote Road" for you youngsters. ) and on some of the lakes. This is what the Park says:

A. The Perimeter Road between Togue gate and the Morse Mountain Road.
B. The Morse Mountain Road.
C. The Perimeter Road between Morse Mountain road and Matagamon Gate and between Matagamon Gate and the public road leading to the Northern entrance of the Park.
D. The spur road between the Perimeter Road and Camp Phoenix.
E. The spur road south of the Perimeter Road along the East Branch of the Penobscot River.

The rangers take snowmobiles up to Roaring Brook and even to Chimney Pond in solid-freeze winter conditions, but they're the only ones allowed to do so.

So snowmobiles would be a good way to reach the Abol trail, Hunt trail, the Brothers and a few other places for hiking, but they wouldn't help much if you were headed to Chimney. You'd have to park somewhere for a couple days, which probably wouldn't be a great idea.

On the other hand, if you have a friend who has one, she or he might be willing to pull your fully loaded sled as far as allowed, letting you enjoy an unfettered ski for at least a few miles.