Solo hiking above treeline in winter

[Periwinkle]

It's been my perception ( perhaps mistakenly) that the type of current conditions atop Mt Washington - 38 degrees with a wickedly wet 40 mph wind - are a bigger risk as to developing hypothermia in comparison to colder, but drier, winter conditions. I can't really find any rescue stats to back this up. Anyone?

Not statisical, but from a quick look, it appears the majority of deaths covered in Not Without Peril are within that range (not true winter condtions).

The Mt. Washington website lists accidents by type: http://www.mountwashington.org/about/visitor/surviving.php

The possible statistics may be an aside from the current discussion as the popularity of winter hiking has increased in recent years.

I think the big mistake here is that the entire group should have abandoned the climb when hiker #1 made the decision to go back.

I'm not clear on exactly what conditions the group climbed into, but, in general, I have to disagree.

This has come up before, but I don't go out with a large group without having the option and equipment to return solo. I wouldn't hike with a group if they had a problem with that, mostly because I wouldn't want a whole group to turn back because I wanted to. I know this goes against the grain. But, I reserve the right to make my own choices. Even more so thinking about all the times I've pushed myself to keep up. I also know I'm not the only one that's done this.

On the other hand, with my usual hiking companions in a group of two or three, we almost always go together and turn around together (as in 95% of the time). On one very memorable day, my husband and I turned back on Welch- Dickey. Welch-Dickey. Days later, customers were still coming into the store saying "Thank God you're okay". They had heard that a couple was in trouble hiking and the woman, also named Brenda, had died. Brenda Cox and her husband hadn't turned back on Lafayette. I'll never forget her or the day she died.

As I hike in the Whites, I always take a moment along certain places on the trail to remember those who also loved the mountains, but died there.

As far as the factors of risk we cant control as with all things in life why worry about these, I dont concern myself with what I cant control....

But from my own perspective, considering the factors of risks that others faced, and found they couldn't control, is something to learn from. I worry about these things, the things I can't control, and keep them in my mind as I hike. I don't think this is a bad thing.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

It's been my perception ( perhaps mistakenly) that the type of current conditions atop Mt Washington - 38 degrees with a wickedly wet 40 mph wind - are a bigger risk as to developing hypothermia in comparison to colder, but drier, winter conditions.

Hey, Watch my Doug Paul immitation!!!

I beleive Wilkerson (in Hypothermia, Frostbite and other Cold Injuries) talks about heat loss. He mentions that water conducts head 240 times faster than air (P 15). He goes on to say that evaporation of water from wet clothing causes great heat loss. Wet clothing looses its insulative ability, leading to greatly increased convective cooling.

I'll leave the formula, Jq = EK (Ts**4 - Ta **4) out of this for now.

Pick up Wilkerson's book, which is an absoulte treasure of information about this subject.

 

[giggy]

It's been my perception ( perhaps mistakenly) that the type of current conditions atop Mt Washington - 38 degrees with a wickedly wet 40 mph wind - are a bigger risk as to developing hypothermia in comparison to colder, but drier, winter conditions. I can't really find any rescue stats to back this up. Anyone?

I agree with tim. I was thinking the same thing. Nothing worse than fall/spring when you get that cold rain.

I would also be willing to bet most accidents/deaths are not "solo's hiking above treeline in winter" as well.

tuckerman.org has some rescue stats - but its only for that area. - then again, thats the major above treeline area. from what I can tell - mostly climbers, BC skiers, etc are the ones that have accidents.

not saying if your solo and you get hurt, you won't have a problem - but in reality, its a personal call and quite frankly, I don't think its right for someone who doesn't hike or climb in the alpine zone that much to be critical of those that do. not singling anyone out here - just sayin'

 

[Maddy]

Periwinkle...I should have been more specific. The weather was not good. Visibility poor and tracks totally obliterated. It was stormy out and very cold.
I guess the question would arise in a situation like this why one or two hikers in a group, all of whom are very strong and experienced, would opt to bail out. Maybe it's the nurse in me but I would seriously wonder what was going on with them that they felt compelled to turn back. Perhaps they were not totally honest with the group and indicated that it was no big deal not wanting to spoil the day for rest of the hikers. I cannot remember the details of this now but I think Hiker #1 turned back because of fatigue. There had to be a darn good reason because these people love to hike.
I am really weird like that. If I saw someone turn back I would not let them go down alone. IF it came to that I would pretend that I too wanted to abandon the climb and go down with them. IT's just my personality and I know I would not have a good time if I continued on. I would just worry about them until I was sure they were OK.
My best friend's son used to tell her, "mom, I wish you weren't a trauma nurse, you worry to much." MAybe I do to.
When you see daily the devastating consequences of one moment of inattention or poor judgment, it does have a lasting effect on how you
process things that others don't blink an eye over.

 

[DougPaul]

Hey, Watch my Doug Paul immitation!!!

Gadzooks!! Now they are even imitating me... (Mocking I could understand, but imitating?)

I'll leave the formula, Jq = EK (Ts**4 - Ta **4) out of this for now.

Should be to the third power...

Pick up Wilkerson's book, which is an absoulte treasure of information about this subject.

Hear! Hear!
Should be a required reference in every serious hikers library.

Doug

edit:
PS. Pete's equation is presumably legitmate--my comment "Should be to the third power..." is a joke.

 

[DougPaul]

I think the big mistake here is that the entire group should have abandoned the climb when hiker #1 made the decision to go back.

Such judgements are easy to make after the fact. (Also known as Monday morning quarterbacking.)

There are issues of group organization. If it is a formally led hike (eg an AMC trip), then it is the leader's responsibility to make sure that all party members are reasonably covered at all times. (But the leader is, of course, just a fallable human trying to make the best decisions given what he knows at the time that he must make the decisions. And he may often have to decide between competing factors or trade off competing risks.)

Groups of friends usually, but not always, stick together.

But when you have a non-organized group (eg many VFTT hikes), no one is officially responsible. Under these conditions, each person may have to be responsible for himself. Sometimes, some of the more experienced will keep an eye on the less experienced, but one cannot count on it. Ideally each is prepared to break off from the group and solo, but this is not likely to be a good option for the less experienced or confident. Also ideally, if one of the less experienced needs to turn back, at least one of the more experienced will go back with him, but none are required to do so.

The opposite also happens--all but one turn back. (Gotta bag that peak...)

Doug

 

[Maddy]

Such judgements are easy to make after the fact. (Also known as Monday morning quarterbacking.)

Doug...I'm sorry that you think that my statement is "Monday morning quaterbacking" If that is all that I managed to convey out of that story it was a waste of my time to post it.
I based that statement on something that was emphasized by the AMC when I attended two weekend courses which focused on Winter Mountain Safety.
They taught us that when you are in a group the group stays together. You move as fast as your slowest member. IF someone is injured two go for help and the others stay with the victim.
Now if different groups want to play by different rules this is their perogative. It's just too bad that in this case it almost cost someone his life, and it did cost him some body parts. He blames no one and neither do I but the question remains, was it the safest thing to do? Might the outcome have been different if they had all stayed together???
This isn't about blaming. It's about learning.

 

[Paul the Explorer]

<<If I saw someone turn back I would not let them go down alone. >> Maddy


would somone turn back because they were feeling fine, that there was nothing wrong ??...I hardly think so. If I were with a group that allowed ANYONE to leave the group alone (dumb-stupid -wrong)...I would find others to hike with...remember summiting is only an option

 

[Kevin Rooney]

It's been my perception ( perhaps mistakenly) that the type of current conditions atop Mt Washington - 38 degrees with a wickedly wet 40 mph wind - are a bigger risk as to developing hypothermia in comparison to colder, but drier, winter conditions. I can't really find any rescue stats to back this up. Anyone?

Tim - I concur with your perception. I think the most dangerous times, when the myriad variables are considered, are when temps are within 10-20 degrees above freezing, windy, and it's either raining or in the clouds/fog (the same as raining, for all practical purposes).

As for hiking with groups - for me, the reason to hike in groups is for mutual safety. Within that context, partiticipants have similar skill/conditioning levels, and for those with more skills they agree to stay with the group. People agree to stay with the group and not to abandon it unless it's been explicitly agreed to before the hike, and the point of departure mutually agreed upon. Not everyone in this thread is of this mindset - that's fine - no harm/no foul. But, for me, hiking together in groups during winter, particularly when above treeline, is not a casual get together, and often requires more planning than when doing the same hike solo.

 

[DougPaul]

Doug...I'm sorry that you think that my statement is "Monday morning quaterbacking" If that is all that I managed to convey out of that story it was a waste of my time to post it.

No, I am not suggesting that your statement was a waste of time.

In mountaineering, decisions often have to be made between several risky strategies. The decisions have to be made based upon the group or leader's best estimates of what those risks are and the possible outcomes of each strategy. Even the best decisions somtimes result in an accident. The problem is that we judge the group/leaders on the outcome, not the wisdom of the decision. (Someone who does something risky and gets away with it is often viewed as being bold (ie good) whereas if the same person does something relatively safe and gets hurt is likely to be viewed poorly.)

I have turned back and told the others to go on in winter. It was the right thing to do under the circumstances.

Doug

 

[RoySwkr]

It was very snowy and he lost the Crawford path on his back.

That has happened to me too. The trail circles quite a while near the top
but we followed some tracks that went down and soon got into some real
spruce traps. The temptation is just to head down for the lights in the
valley and figure you will hit the trail later but of course you won't.
We finally climbed back up and found the correct trail.

He still hikes which of course is a good thing.

I was there when he finished the W4K.

 

[RoySwkr]

would somone turn back because they were feeling fine, that there was nothing wrong ??

I've turned around when I obviously had less energy than the others and was only slowing them down, but was perfectly capable of returning alone. Pushing myself to continue would have been a mistake but making everybody else quit would have been foolish.

Similarly, I once went to Madison/Adams in winter when one member of the party quit at the hut. He was perfectly capable of hiking below treeline but didn't like the conditions above.

There is a difference between abandoning someone in distress and not pushing someone to continue who would rather quit.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Similarly, I once went to Madison/Adams in winter when one member of the party quit at the hut. He was perfectly capable of hiking below treeline but didn't like the conditions above.

There is a difference between abandoning someone in distress and not pushing someone to continue who would rather quit.

This is a good point, Roy. Have been in this kind of situation myself several times and have done similar things. When 1) it's clear the person turning back is capable of getting down safely by themselves 2) when they'll be taking a route that has few side trails to get lost on (like Valley Way from the hut) and 3) when the main party will act as sweep behind the person later on - then this is a pretty safe situation. It's icing on the cake when the person who left early leaves a note on the windshield of the organizer/leader that they got down safely.

 

[dug]

It's icing on the cake when the person who left early leaves a note on the windshield of the organizer/leader that they got down safely.

Or a beer.

 

[Tim Seaver]

Or a beer.

Or a toadstool with a carved message.

(ala Drewski, natch.)

 

[Mike P.]

I've turned back when I knew I did not have the energy to finish the hike. I was on a NH or Boston winter attempt on Carter Dome & knew shortly after getting on Carter Dome trail that the bad night I had sleeping was going to come back to haunt me if I went up all the way. I was fine walking back the two miles or so to the car.

Time should be a consideration for turning back. Some people even with lights prefer not using them or at least not using them miles away from the end of the hike. (personally it depends on where I am & time of year.)

 

[drewski]

Or a toadstool with a carved message.

(ala Drewski, natch.)

that would be a fungi sir!!!

 

[Pete Hogan]

Better late than never!

I solo more than I should, but less than I want.

There are probably as many tangible reasons for solo hiking as there are against solo hiking. But it's the intangibles that seem to intrigue me and keep me coming back for more. Like spooking a foraging bear on the shores of Round Pond after a day on Dix or standing on the summit of Whiteface in the middle of winter with no one else around.

When I solo in the winter, I try to stay on more popular routes where there is a greater chance of "hiker traffic". Since my retirement from teaching, I truly enjoy the solitude of weekday hikes and not have to wonder about the weather for the weekend. In retirement, the weather has never been better.

But I also enjoy the excitement of a sudden t-storm or the insecurity of being overtaken by thick fog.

It also seems that when I hike alone, the mountains ask more of me and I gain more from them. I am totally immersed in every aspect of the experience from listening to the late afternoon song of the Wood Thrush to hearing snow softly land on my shoulder.

But I do have a few very close, trusted and valued hiking partners. It has taken years to find these kindred spirits. Their hiking pace is just right and they appreciate and have the same sense of wonder for everything from target lichen to Alpine azaleas to cloud formations...just like me!

Those folks I would gladly share a solo hike with, anytime.

 

[Stan]

... I am totally immersed in every aspect of the experience ...

The "total immersion" is the biggest gift I get from a hike. I find it inversely proportionate to two things: the degree of responsibility I must take and the size of the group. For the former, immersion focuses on safety and for the latter it focuses towards people. Successful hikes, in my mind, are those that provide a sufficient amount of that total immersion regardless of my role and the size of the group, if any.

 

[dreamstream]

…Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all. (Helen Keller)