Summit Registers

[Neil]

For the record.

Anybody, please correct my inaccuracies.
The list of the ADK lower 54 has been whittled away quite a bit already.
Of the lower ADK 54 about a dozen are officially trailed and I'm told that one trailless one has a cell phone tower and a generator on it. (Averill) Jay has a heavily used herd trail and TR a well defined trail. MacNaughton may have a trail up it but I didn't see one from Wallface Pond. Of the truly pristine ones left quite a few (my guess = 5) have private property issues involving hunting and snowmobiling groups.

 

[Papa Bear]

Once again, PapaBear's eloquence makes perfect sense. Right on! Might as well lock the thread!

You are too kind bigmoose (or was that sarcasm?). I wasn't suggesting that I have answers that would settle this issue.

There certainly are so called "Bigger picture" issues, which are deserving of some very serious thought from all of us. But they are beyond the scope of this thread (and probably off-topic as well). But the key group:

2) Second tier: NE HH, ADK HH, perhaps some state HH lists, some other popular peaks. These have trailless peaks that are becoming herd path peaks. This seems to be the problem most of the above posts are about. I would guess 20 - 50 visits per year. Problem: loss of wilderness. Increas use (but certainly no crowds). Solution: I don't know, keep posting ideas.

I din't mean there are no solutions for this category, but only that I don't know what they are. I think the discussions on this thread are helpful in getting the thought process moving, and perhaps the seeds of some solutions are to be found here.

But I do believe, as I said, that we should try to keep a balance and not over generalize. Aside from the big environmental issues, there are hiking issues that have (IMHO) some solutions at hand (my tier 1) and some that are still not a problem (tier 3), So let's work on where the biggest problems without clear solutions are, and keep the thoughts coming.

 

[Peakbagr]

Of the lower 54, 39 or 40 are officially trailless.
By my very quick look, the 5 Sawteeth, 4 Sentinels, 4 Blue Ridges, Cheney/North River, Henderson, Green, Lewey, Wallface, Dun Brook, Fishing Brook, Fishing Brook Range, Little Santa, Puffer, Wolf Pond, Beull, Panther and Cellar have no discernable and continuous herd paths. These are the jewels we're discussing here, the one's I'd put in the pristine category.

There are permissions needed for a few of these, but alternative but sometimes impractical public land alternatives are available.

 

[mavs00]

Of the lower 54, 39 or 40 are officially trailless.
By my very quick look, the 5 Sawteeth, 4 Sentinels, 4 Blue Ridges, Cheney/North River, Henderson, Green, Lewey, Wallface, Dun Brook, Fishing Brook, Fishing Brook Range, Little Santa, Puffer, Wolf Pond, Beull, Panther and Cellar have no discernable and continuous herd paths. These are the jewels we're discussing here, the one's I'd put in the pristine category.

There are permissions needed for a few of these, but alternative but sometimes impractical public land alternatives are available.

Add - Lost Pond Peak, Calamity, Avalanche, 3 Blue Ridges, Hoffman, Little Moose, Morgan (although I wouldn't call it a gem ), Saddleback (Jay Range) , Averill and Unnamed Brown Pond.

 

[post'r boy]

Of the lower 54, 39 or 40 are officially trailless.
By my very quick look, the 5 Sawteeth, 4 Sentinels, 4 Blue Ridges, Cheney/North River, Henderson, Green, Lewey, Wallface, Dun Brook, Fishing Brook, Fishing Brook Range, Little Santa, Puffer, Wolf Pond, Beull, Panther and Cellar have no discernable and continuous herd paths. These are the jewels we're discussing here, the one's I'd put in the pristine category.

There are permissions needed for a few of these, but alternative but sometimes impractical public land alternatives are available.

huh?
and all along i thought we were all discussing all the northeast 3k'S. sorry, hope you all get something figured out over there in NY,so by the time i get to those "pristine peaks" it'll look like you guys weren't there!
that's it for me.

 

[Peakbagr]

Avalanche has a route/ partial herd path already, as do Saddleback and Hoffman.
Depending on the route, Brown Pond has a path as well, clearly to the Pond but a little less so to the top. Averill has a road up it. In haste, I forgot about Calamity, LPP and Lil' Moose. Again though, LM has an old woods road much of the way in, and its only a matter of time until the end of the road to the summit changes from a route to a herd path.

You raise a very interesting point about access and something what larger numbers may mean for access to private land. Heck, the summits of Panther and Buell already look like a hostile border zone, with the posted signs and paint blazes everywhere.

PB

 

[mavs00]

Postr' Boy (and others)

I HEAR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I apologize for my part in some of the thread decline here. I do notice the thread rating going down some 5 to 3 stars.

You are right, this thread is about all Northeast 3k's and it was intended to be that way. The western drift started with my post #38

This list is getting pretty popular and there is a debate about getting the list more "established." Most of the more experienced hikers, including those that have finished this list, are against more establishment while the "younger" peakbaggers often feel the opposite. Funny how hiking lists of mountains can be so debatable.

With this statement, E. Schlimmer (one of the legends of NE b-whacking) brought to the forefront a HUGE and (until now) quietly percolating confrontation (which is probably too strong a word) between the past, current and future of Adirondack HH peakbaggers.

Without intended to, this thread became the first public discourse between some of those historic finishers and some of next generation of hopeful finishers (or soon to be finishers). We dominated the topic, forcefully in some cases....... so as not to let the dialog stop, and the thought this dialog would lead to real progress was a little too tantilizing to let slip away. It was simply a long overdue topic and thats why it probably bubbled over....... I wholly admit my part in that.

I'm sorry for that, and it probably called for a different thread to be generated. I think we were afraid to move it because it seemed the OLD SCHOOL was in here and, in some cases, listening (even if not posting) to us, and they really had no incentive to follow us into another "room" so to speak.

Let move back towards the center now.

--------------------------------------

I get ascared when I walk in any wooded area outside NY, anyone volunteer to take me on my first. New England 3k bushwhack, if I ever make it out that way? And I don't want no softball crap either

 

[post'r boy]

whew!

don't be afeared my brother, come east and i'll be your host!

 

[Peakbagr]

I've told Tim(mav00) before that he's the Bard of NY peakbagging.
He's right on with his last post. I think a few of we peakbaggers in NYS were so happy to have some of these issues finally out in the open that our enthusiasm got the better of us. All due respect intended to our elders, as well as the 'baggers to our east.

PB

 

[spencer]

I think what is most important is that we are talking about it and making people (including ourselves) aware of the various issues.

I don't think it's okay to say there are bigger environmental issues to worry about. we have relatively much less to do about and with the windfarm, ATV, etc. issues. We are a group of peakbaggers who should be the first to address problems caused directly by us.

it's not the rednecks throwing beer bottles from ATVs while wearing not wearing a helmet that we can blame this time.

IT'S US!

As usual, I think progress comes from education and here we are, edumacating ourselves.

Great thread, VFTT!

spencer

ps - there is a problem with PB's category 3. I removed flagging from another 3k this weekend. If you put it there, I will tear it down and think less of you for using it! of course, nobody has to care what I think....

 

[John H Swanson]

All of the 3ks I've done in the past two years are in ME, so my comments are a reflection of that experience. In reading the registers on those peaks, there are on average one person, maybe two, signing in a year, in several registers it had been two years between visitors. These peaks are not "popular" and they are not showing any signs of human activity. I can not see any future increase in visits because of postings on this site.

I agree with this point for the average 3000 footer peak. The number of people willing to bash thru the dense stuff are few and far between, hense the low rates of visitation.

However, I had seen someone asking about the special 3000 footers with scenic views. This person really did not want to bushwhack to the summit unless there was a nice view. Immediately three very special peaks came to mind. I remember the open summits and fragile tundra-esque plants. These peaks were unbelievable. I'm sure the traffic of a few peak baggers would not impact them, but imagine the people that would be drawn by a rave review. That's the problem.

Surprising how a little comment such as "I bushwhacked up a really cool ravine on the way to Shipton peak. It had a series of short steps cliffs." would draw people to a route. Even the word: "pristine" could cause a draw. Of course if you use "pristine" with a hellacious it might actually deter impact on other peaks.

 

[RoySwkr]

Is the question really: Are we ruining the earth or ruining the experience?

I climbed Snow Mtn in the Cupsuptic Range when it was thought to be the 101st highest peak in New England. I had to figure out a route there using 15' quads that didn't show the roads and a DeLorme Atlas with no contours. The register showed about 1 ascent every 2 years.

Perhaps a more recent visitor can indicate the current visitation level but it may have grown a hundred-fold, due to being on a major list and having published directions available.. I expect there is now a notable "human zone" surrounding the register. I say, so what? I am sure the ecology of the Cupsuptic Range is only slightly affected by what happens on this peak. Anyone who expects a peak on a popular list to be pristine is simply being unrealistic. It is one thing to go to great effort to protect rare plants such as in the alpine zone, but a waste of time to try to prevent superficial damage that would quickly recover if a resurvey drops this peak back to #101. If you want to visit a truly pristine place, they are easy to find - just avoid places on lists or in magazine articles of unspoiled locations.

 

[Raymond]

Well, back in September, we couldn't even figure out where the mountain was from the herd path we followed off the end of East Branch Road. We came up to a hill between two high mountains. It could be things have been changed by logging, I don't know.