"The Grid" has replaced "The List"

[sierra]

Many of the trails in the VT State Parks are closed during mud season, and they (the state and the GMC) request that you stay off many others. While the mountains will survive, the trail experience can and will suffer, or there will be extra work required by trail crews.

I do see the point your making and will conceed that damage done can be worse in certain seasons, but imo the nature of the trails in the Whites are such that they can absorb the impact as they always have. Further more like I said I do pay attention to where I step, I will rock hop muddy trails as to limit my footptrint and if I come to a flooded trail section that has walkaround bypass I will continue through the water and stay on the trail proper, my boots can survive water crossings and I avoid as much additional trail damage as possible. So while I wont "stay home" I do my best to not abuse the trails given the conditions that present themselves.

 

[Snowflea]

A few more comments from an unapologetic "Gridiot"...

For me, the beauty of doing the NH4ks in every month is the ability to see each mountain a bit differently each time, whether due to the chosen route or to the month/season. Obviously, a blustery, subzero midwinter hike up Peak X is a completely different animal than an early summer's jaunt on a calm, sunny day up the same peak... which is totally different from a peak foliage hike, etc., etc.

And if said peaks are in your "backyard," why not climb them over and over if that's what you enjoy doing? (I lived 35 min. from Franconia Notch x 30 years.)

The only time I recall feeling any self-imposed pressure to bag peaks was in April 2003, the year I finished the GRID and was in git 'r done mode. I'd overloaded my plate trying to climb (mostly solo) the remaining 30 peaks for that month... in addition to resting up, then recovering from an ultra that same month... in addition to keeping up at work. And even that - the personal challenge of seeing whether I could do it - was very, very rewarding and fun.

I do not recall ever feeling like a "slave" to a list. How can something feel like toil if you're doing what you love? I don't remember ever climbing a mountain that I didn't want to climb. When I was in northern New England last month, I hiked the much maligned Owls Head for something like the 20th time... just because I felt like it. Each peak has its charms; there are none I dislike (although I do like some more than others).

WRT the mud season issue, I LOVE Vermont, her peaks, and the Long Trail, but I agree w/Dr. Wu here: except for the rare drought year, in some sections of the LT it's always mud season! I have done the LT three times (in July-August) and suffered enough "trench foot" to feel qualified making this assertion. On the more popular sections, I cannot say that there is any less erosion there than in the Whites. (Do people think so?)

Finally, someone mentioned trail work. I adopted my first trail in 1990 and continue to do trail work regularly, though admittedly not as often as I probably should. Instead of softwood branches and hobblebush, I now clip chaparrel and yucca (ouch!). I would hope that all trail users who use the trails with any regularity give back by doing some trail work.

Sue (currently working on only a very short list: the CA 14ers...)

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I did 12/14 VT NEHH peaks in the last 10 months and I don't think there is more or less erosion. The maintenance levels are definitely different (water bars in the Whites seem more well-built/permanent), and they appear to be less well traveled. I do think on average they are less steep and/or there is less overall elevation gained, but the majority are along the Long Trail ridge which has higher elevation trailheads.

Tim

 

[ColdRiverRun]

With apologies to the NH grid hikers, the OCD peakbagging ribbon has to go to Fred Hunt & he did it back in the 60's & 70's. (See your F&C)

In a fairly short period, he did the 46 in all four seasons, all 12 months, all at night, 110 months with a Marcy ascent & in a 3.5 year period averaged 3 peaks a week. (all while having a job indoors which was what set him on his way)

Congratulations to all who just get outside. I've managed a couple of ADK trips this year but I've been just about a year off the NH trails while leading our Pack's hiking committee. Been doing all sorts of short hikes in CT & have been on the roof of RI twice this year, so far! Hopefully I can get up to NH soon.

I'd nominate Larry Davis who climbed Monadnock every day for 8+ years.

I'd say there is quite a few here, including myself, who have averaged more than 3 peaks a week for a 3.5 year stretch. Tons of respect for Fred Hunt but the king of North East peak bagging is Pin Pin. He climbed the 46 in every season...for 50 consecutive seasons. He averaged just less than 9 complete rounds a year for 12+ years.

On top of that he added things like..doing the 770! He also did the entire NY (ADK & Cat) and VT 3ks in winter.

As part of those things he climbed a single 46 as a full moon night hike..for 46 consective months. He climbed all 46 in every week of the year (the month was just to easy apparently). For over a 10 year period most winter hikers followed a broken trail he broke out himself to become winter 46ers.

The term "Grid" was never used in the ADK until the last few years by people who have started in that period. It was simply reffered to as doing the monthly. Over here we have many who use to just add up "rounds" as in complete circuits of all 46. There is 3 who have done the 46x46 and I know there is a good number of people who have 20+ complete rounds. Last winter I did a climb of Seymour with Phil Correll. He has over 27 rounds if I'm recalling correctly and we discussed how he was now doing a winter climb and it had been 50 years since he first climbed the mountain! He was already one of the early winter 46ers and hiked many winters and had 27 rounds but since doing the "grid" was something new he had never filled in the pieces so isn't an official completer.

 

[DSettahr]

We might as well mention Pete Fish too... he must be closing in on his 800th ascent of Marcy by now...

 

[RoySwkr]

As part of those things he climbed a single 46 as a full moon night hike..for 46 consective months.

There are some 4k in NH that are hard to climb in a single night so Fred only did at least one direction in the dark. Perchance PP hikes faster!

 

[Brian Wood]

If you get an infinite number of monkeys out hiking everyday eventually they will complete the grid.

 

[sierra]

If you get an infinite number of monkeys out hiking everyday eventually they will complete the grid.

Allow me,
That makes no sense at all. There is a very good reason why there are no monkey's on the list so far and safe to say, none will make it in the future.

 

[erugs]

Sierra and others. The comment from Brian is unique humor from an avid reader. Here's what it means, according to Wickpedia -

"The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type a given text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare.

"In this context, "almost surely" is a mathematical term with a precise meaning, and the "monkey" is not an actual monkey, but a metaphor for an abstract device that produces a random sequence of letters and symbols ad infinitum. The probability of a monkey exactly typing a complete work such as Shakespeare's Hamlet is so tiny that the chance of it occurring during a period of time of the order of the age of the universe is extremely low, but not zero.

"Variants of the theorem include multiple and even infinitely many typists, and the target text varies between an entire library and a single sentence. The history of these statements can be traced back to Aristotle's On Generation and Corruption and Cicero's De natura deorum, through Blaise Pascal and Jonathan Swift, and finally to modern statements with their iconic typewriters. In the early 20th century, Émile Borel and Arthur Eddington used the theorem to illustrate the timescales implicit in the foundations of statistical mechanics."

 

[David Metsky]

"The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type a given text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare.

The average VftT post - 3 monkeys, 15 minutes, tops.

 

[Peakbagr]

To quote my friend Ralph, aka 'Hermit' - one of only a tiny handful of Catskill 35 gridders: " The mountains are like a museum where the exhibits change every month".

One of the best mountain related sayings I've ever heard.

Alan

 

[erugs]

To quote my friend Ralph, aka 'Hermit' - one of only a tiny handful of Catskill 35 gridders: " The mountains are like a museum where the exhibits change every month".

One of the best mountain related sayings I've ever heard.

Alan

I love it and am going to repeat it when asked why I hike so often.

 

[sierra]

Sierra and others. The comment from Brian is unique humor from an avid reader. Here's what it means, according to Wickpedia -

"The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type a given text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare.

"In this context, "almost surely" is a mathematical term with a precise meaning, and the "monkey" is not an actual monkey, but a metaphor for an abstract device that produces a random sequence of letters and symbols ad infinitum. The probability of a monkey exactly typing a complete work such as Shakespeare's Hamlet is so tiny that the chance of it occurring during a period of time of the order of the age of the universe is extremely low, but not zero.

"Variants of the theorem include multiple and even infinitely many typists, and the target text varies between an entire library and a single sentence. The history of these statements can be traced back to Aristotle's On Generation and Corruption and Cicero's De natura deorum, through Blaise Pascal and Jonathan Swift, and finally to modern statements with their iconic typewriters. In the early 20th century, Émile Borel and Arthur Eddington used the theorem to illustrate the timescales implicit in the foundations of statistical mechanics."

Whoa nelly that is deep, I guess I see the attempted point but on its face it seems a little far fetched to me, but admittedly, Ive spent more time in the mountains then in the classroom. I'll just head back out into the hills and leave you academics to it.

 

[erugs]

Sierra - usually Brian's comments/humor are not quite as academic. More often we're likely to hear, "Let's go, we're burning daylight." (John Wayne)

 

[sierra]

Sierra - usually Brian's comments/humor are not quite as academic. More often we're likely to hear, "Let's go, we're burning daylight." (John Wayne)

I hear you, Im more into the darkside myself, ie. The summit or death, either way I win. ( The late scott fischer)

 

[above_tree_line]

definition of "insanity"

I love to hike, have done the 4k three times, working on #4 this time winter list. That being said, I beleive it was Ben Franklin who said "Isanity is when you do the same thing over and over expecting to get different results".. Hmm seems to apply to the grid.. But then again maybe I'll give it a shot.

 

[ColdRiverRun]

I love to hike, have done the 4k three times, working on #4 this time winter list. That being said, I beleive it was Ben Franklin who said "Isanity is when you do the same thing over and over expecting to get different results".. Hmm seems to apply to the grid.. But then again maybe I'll give it a shot.

How is it that that applies to the grid?

 

[erugs]

I love to hike, have done the 4k three times, working on #4 this time winter list. That being said, I beleive it was Ben Franklin who said "Isanity is when you do the same thing over and over expecting to get different results".. Hmm seems to apply to the grid.. But then again maybe I'll give it a shot.

I see what you mean, but I bet many gridders won't agree.

 

[TDawg]

I love to hike, have done the 4k three times, working on #4 this time winter list. That being said, I beleive it was Ben Franklin who said "Isanity is when you do the same thing over and over expecting to get different results".. Hmm seems to apply to the grid.. But then again maybe I'll give it a shot.

Sorry, but I don't think that applies to the grid at all.

Say you're hiking, for example, the "Franconia Loop..."

Seeing all the people parading across the ridge in the warm sunshine of July/August, the goofs with no pack and no water is the same as hiking it in January/February and seeing a handful of hikers out in the freezing cold, snowy, moonscape? I see where you're headed, but you need a different example.

 

[DSettahr]

the nature of the trails in the Whites are such that they can absorb the impact as they always have.

This absolutely is not true. The trails have not "always absorbed impact." There has been for decades tireless crews, countless thousands of professional and volunteer trail maintainers, who have worked together and put in thousands, if not millions, of hours to help protect our backcountry resources from one of the greatest threats they face- those very humans who value and want to protect them. There very much is truth to the saying "loving it to death" when it comes to the backcountry.

For example, the AMC professional trail crew, based out of Pinkham Notch, practically wrote the book on professional trail maintenance, and we largely have them to thank for the excellent quality that we find many of the White Mountain trails to be in.

If you don't always notice the work that trail crews have done, it's because they've done it correctly. When trail work in the backcountry is done right, it has very little visual impact, and most people never notice it at all.

If you're interested in learning more, I recommend reading the following paper: http://www.lnt.org/training/PDFs/SOKWildernesspap.pdf It's a literature/knowledge review of many separate papers on recreation impacts, combining the essential and important information from many individual scholarly articles into one source.

Here are some key quotes from the above paper:

Negative impacts on wilderness are an inevitable consequence of recreation. Even the most thoughtful visitors would leave footprints and unintentionally disturb wildlife.

Recreation activities can cause impact to all resource elements in a wilderness ecosystem. Soil, vegetation, wildlife and water are four primary components that are affected. Because various ecological components are interrelated, recreation impact on a single ecological element can eventually result in effects on multiple components.

Why should we care about recreation impacts? Recreation impacts are significant because they reflect success in meeting two primary legal mandates: resource protection and recreation provision.

Wilderness managers continue to be confronted by significant visitor impact problems throughout the 624-unit, 104-million-acre National Wilderness Preservation System. Visitor impacts threaten to compromise wilderness management mandates for preserving and sustaining high quality natural environments and recreational experiences. A principal goal for managing wilderness visitation is to avoid impacts that are avoidable and to minimize those that are not. To achieve this goal, wilderness managers must effectively educate and regulate visitors and manage wilderness resources.

Remember, these statements aren't just being pulled out of someone's posterior end- these are people who have dedicated their entire careers to researching and studying this stuff.

Relating this back to the idea of the Grid... Should you absolutely, at all costs, avoid hiking on steep trails during the spring when they are most susceptible to damage? Not necessarily- if the Grid is really important to you, then by all means go for it. However, when you chose to do this, it should be an informed decision. Know the impacts you are creating, and do your best to minimize them by treading lightly as you hike. Volunteer on trail work projects to further minimize your overall impact.

I strongly believe that any person who puts in the time to complete the grid, or even to complete the 46 or the 48, can not only afford to put in a day or two per year doing volunteer trailwork, but has the responsibility to do so. Our paid trail crews do some really, really great work, but it's only with the added help of the volunteer crews that we can really be successful in protecting the wild areas we cherish.