topo map survey - Need your input

[Peakbagr]

I'm involved with the production of what is hoped will be a state of the art, topo map by a large organization.

Specs: map will be double sided, 24"x 37", and either tear/water resistant, Tyvek, or something similar.
VFTT has a lot of map users and experts and would like hiker feedback:

1. Do you carry a topo map in your pocket, in your pack or leave it back in your vehicle? (this should be an excellent topo, not something designed to plan hikes)
2. For a large, double sided map, please state your preference for its folded size and reasons: 4" x 7" 4.25" x 9.25" or 3.75" x 5"
3. What would your ideal paper type?
4. Your ideal guidebook size would be small 5"x7" or larger 5.5"x8.5" and explain.

Please share your feedback here, or PM me if you'd prefer.

Thanks,
Alan

 

[Scubahhh]

1. Do you carry a topo map in your pocket, in your pack or leave it back in your vehicle? (this should be an excellent topo, not something designed to plan hikes)
In the Whites, almost always an AMC map (the plastic type- not sure what its made of but it handles wear and water pretty well). I -fold it so I can see the area where I'm walking, the. Stuff it in one of my waist belt pockets (I use Osprey packs).

2. For a large, double sided map, please state your preference for its folded size and reasons: 4" x 7" 4.25" x 9.25" or 3.75" x 5"
Prolly 4.25 X 9.25, or whatever size the AMC maps are. That way I can fold it in half, stick it inside my Rite-in-the-Rain notebook, and stick both in my waist pocket.

3. What would your ideal paper type?
Whatever the AMC maps are made of works for me, though if you can come up with something more durable but no heavier, that would be cool.

4. Your ideal guidebook size would be small 5"x7" or larger 5.5"x8.5" and explain.
It doesn't matter much because I almost never carry the guidebook. The only book I carry usually is Smith & Dickerman's 4000 Footers...

Any details about these maps: area, scale, contour intervals, trails included. Etc.? Downloadable onto an iPhone for use with the GPS?

Thanks, and good luck. Please do keep us apprised!

 

[Peakbagr]

The survey was posted on VFTT, another hiking forum, on 3 FB pages, and on a separate listserv. Hope to compile and share results if we get enough feedback to make it worthwhile. Thanks for your response.

 

[sardog1]

1. Do you carry a topo map in your pocket, in your pack or leave it back in your vehicle? Pocket.
2. For a large, double sided map, please state your preference for its folded size and reasons: No preference, I'll scrunch it to fit.
3. What would your ideal paper type? Utterly waterproof, infinitely scrunchable, never lose details to wear. Tyvek sounds interesting if you can maintain details.
4. Your ideal guidebook size would be small 5"x7" or larger 5.5"x8.5" and explain. Guidebook stays home, so I don't care.

Donewithit.

 

[blacknblue]

I'm involved with the production of what is hoped will be a state of the art, topo map by a large organization.

Specs: map will be double sided, 24"x 37", and either tear/water resistant, Tyvek, or something similar.
VFTT has a lot of map users and experts and would like hiker feedback:

1. Do you carry a topo map in your pocket, in your pack or leave it back in your vehicle? (this should be an excellent topo, not something designed to plan hikes)
2. For a large, double sided map, please state your preference for its folded size and reasons: 4" x 7" 4.25" x 9.25" or 3.75" x 5"
3. What would your ideal paper type?
4. Your ideal guidebook size would be small 5"x7" or larger 5.5"x8.5" and explain.

Please share your feedback here, or PM me if you'd prefer.

Thanks,
Alan

1. I carry a topo in my backpack.
2. The smaller the better, because I put them inside a ziploc bag (sandwich-size), and may keep it in my pants pocket if I'm frequently using it.
3. Whatever the latest AMC maps are...
4. Doesn't matter since I usually just leave it at home or in the car.

 

[Nessmuk]

1. Do you carry a topo map in your pocket, in your pack or leave it back in your vehicle? (this should be an excellent topo, not something designed to plan hikes)
I am old school map and compass. I have USGS paper topo maps of all of the Adirondacks and much of the rest of NY state. Of course I use these for planning hikes, why not? They are also ready to go for SAR. I always carry my map in either a folding map case or in wet weather I use a waterproof case meant for paddlers, which is like an ultra heavy zip lock. Much of my travel is off trail, so in the field I keep the map in its case readily accessible, usually in my hand.

2. For a large, double sided map, please state your preference for its folded size and reasons: 4" x 7" 4.25" x 9.25" or 3.75" x 5"
Large size doesn't matter, as long as it is foldable to fit in the map case - 4.25x9.25 would be okay.

3. What would your ideal paper type?
Most of the time the paper of USGS maps is sufficient because I carry maps in a protective case, though my most often used maps tend to tear at the folds. I do need to write on it with pencil. If I need to waterproof my maps, a spray can of fabric waterproofing does the job, and makes the paper somewhat more durable.

4. Your ideal guidebook size would be small 5"x7" or larger 5.5"x8.5" and explain.
I have many guidebooks at home. Notes are made on my maps during planning. I do not bring guidebooks into the field.

 

[Peakbagr]

C'mon, gang, help us out.

 

[HH1]

1. I always carry my topo in a waterproof case attached to my pack, hanging at my side
2. 4.25" x 9.25" folded size preferred
3. Tyvek
4. Guidebook size is irrelevant as I don’t carry (photocopy or write details when necessary)
5. Additional details not requested by you: 1 Km X 1 Km grid; three norths depicted with arrows, deviations included; 10 M contour interval; scale no smaller that 1:50000; numeric (NOT color) index contours; if electronically available, .PDF format

Thanks Peakbagger

 

[Mike Z]

1)I carry my map in a ziplock in my pack. I take a picture of it, with my camera, and zoom in on the area I will be hiking. I then print it out and laminate it with clear packing tape. This allows me to read the small print and topo lines. The eyes aren't what they used to be. Then I fold it and put it in my pocket for quick reference.
2)I think the smaller folded size works well for keeping the map in a sandwich size ziplock bag.
3)I bought some tyvek paper for my printer to print maps. National Geographic makes it and I bought it at REI.
4)The guide book doesn't matter because I leave it in the car. The White Mountain Guide used to be a small hardcover book that would fit nicely into a side pocket. Now it is big and soft covered. Not something I want to tote around. I just make a copy of the pertinent pages and tuck that information in my ziplock. What would be ideal is if you could print out the pages from a PDF file instead of jamming a book in the copy machine. It never copies well, especially the binding area where the pages meet.

 

[peakbagger]

1. Do you carry a topo map in your pocket, in your pack or leave it back in your vehicle? (this should be an excellent topo, not something designed to plan hikes). I carry a top map in my pocket if I plan to be actively using it . I generally fold it to fit inside a quart size ziplock bag, even if its waterproof the Ziplock cuts down on the wear and tear of the map
2. For a large, double sided map, please state your preference for its folded size and reasons: 4" x 7" 4.25" x 9.25" or 3.75" x 5" As stated make sure the folds line up with quart sized ziplock
3. What would your ideal paper type? I like the plastic used on the MATC maps compared to Tyvek 4. Your ideal guidebook size would be small 5"x7" or larger 5.5"x8.5" and explain. On the very rare occasions I might carry a guidebook I would want it to fit in a ziplock. My preference is no guidebook at all with the trail descriptions listed on the back. Of course that screws up the potential revenue. MATC only sells the maps with a guide but for most the guide never leaves home

 

[Mac]

1. Yes - I carry a Topo map in my pack.
2. 4" by 7" inch. Fits in top pocket of my pack.
3. Tyvek
4. 5" by 7". Fits in top pocket of my pack.

Hope you get enough responses, Cheers.

 

[marnof]

I usually carry a cell phone, map, and compass for navigation. Rarely a guidebook, due to weight/bulk. The ideal guidebook would be regional and correspond to the map, and be lighter and more packable.

So the ideal size for me would be a thin 5x7 guidebook with a 4x7 map inside that I could throw in a ziplock. Tyvek or similar would be great for the map. Thanks in advance for your work on this.

 

[DayTrip]

Now that I have discovered CalTopo I usually print PDF's of the particular area I will be so I can scribble all over it, highlight, etc and carry multiple pages for a hike so I can zoom in on detail depending on type of hike/length of hike (such as above treeline areas I can put sightlines with compass bearings to various landmarks). I carry the official AMC White Mountain Guide map as a back up or for more global reference. I carry one of those zip case, trifold things with the clear pocket inside that when open has three panels each the width of an AMC map so I can insert standard size paper and have a full view. I very rarely carry a guidebook due to the weight. I transfer any worthwhile info from the Guide to my CalTopo paper copies as needed (times, mileage, etc). I plan the hikes in advance in a lot of detail so the guide is unnecessary.

 

[hikerbrian]

1. Do you carry a topo map in your pocket, in your pack or leave it back in your vehicle? (this should be an excellent topo, not something designed to plan hikes) I carry a topo either in my pocket (if it's an area I know well) or in a sealed plastic bag, folded to expose the area I'll be hiking, and carabinered to my hip (for quick compass bearings in poor visibility, bushwhacking, etc.)
2. For a large, double sided map, please state your preference for its folded size and reasons: 4" x 7" 4.25" x 9.25" or 3.75" x 5" Prolly 4x7, that would fit pretty well in a pocket.
3. What would your ideal paper type? Anything tear and water resistant - Tyvek would be great, but whatever the current AMC maps are made of works fine for me
4. Your ideal guidebook size would be small 5"x7" or larger 5.5"x8.5" and explain. Doesn't matter, it won't come with me on the trip

 

[nartreb]

1. Do you carry a topo map in your pocket, in your pack or leave it back in your vehicle? (this should be an excellent topo, not something designed to plan hikes)

In New England/New York, front pants pocket, near my compass. I often print out only the area(s) I need for the hike from an online topo, mark those up by hand with watercourses and trails (sometimes distances and bearings) in bright colors, and slide them into a gallon-size zip-lock bag(s) before folding. However, if I'm sticking to trails, I may simply carry the AMC trail map or something equivalent for the area.

A few years ago in Alaska, carried several large waterproof topos in my backpack (USGS topos delivered via mail order). Generally navigated by sight, used the topos mostly for verification of distance travelled. ("By midafternoon, we'll be past this glacier and we'll follow that river downhill, then we should be at that branching by Tuesday") These topos were bulky and awkward, the material was needlessly thick and heavy, but it was nice to have very large-scale maps so we could measure sightline angles to faraway mountains, in addition to smaller-scale maps for tasks like finding likely river crossings, and the heavy material was sometimes a benefit in high wind.

2. For a large, double sided map, please state your preference for its folded size and reasons: 4" x 7" 4.25" x 9.25" or 3.75" x 5"

Never thought about it. If it's to go in a pocket, it has to fold to about 4" by 5". That would make it pretty thick unless you use very thin material. The Tyvek {I think that's what they are} AMC maps, folded in half, are about as thick as I like. If I'm on a map edge and have to carry two of them, my pockets feel overstuffed.

3. What would your ideal paper type?

Water-resistant, tear-resistant, light and thin. Writeable is a bonus. Tyvek has held up well for me.

4. Your ideal guidebook size would be small 5"x7" or larger 5.5"x8.5" and explain.

Don't care, the guidebook doesn't go farther than the trailhead - not a good use of weight. Sizewise, 5" is already too wide to fit in any pocket, and 7" is almost too long. Once I'm considering stuffing a book into a backpack, the exact size really doesn't matter. If the book has maps or other practical illustrations, larger is better so you can get the whole picture onto a page, ideally with explanatory text on the facing page. For pure text, smaller is better and a strong organization/TOC/index is best.

 

[hiking lady]

Hey neat thread: Ok 1) I usually carry map in my pocket for quick reference, and sometimes in my pack, never in my car unless I forgot 2) 4x7 because the more info the better IMHO. A year ago I purchased the new larger AMC maps at the Mtn. Wanderer and surprisingly I am quite happy with them, given their size. 3) TYVEK! or anything that prevents RIPPING! 4) 5x7. I miss the old guide books of yesteryear when they were small and not a million pages. Oh and can the pages be of the old quality from when they were thin and not the thick paper they are on! Why did they do that when they made the AMC guidebook bigger> As a result I end up ripping the pages out and bringing them for reference in my pack...

 

[wardsgirl]

1. Do you carry a topo map in your pocket, in your pack or leave it back in your vehicle? (this should be an excellent topo, not something designed to plan hikes)
I carry a topo in the lower front right pocket of zip leg hiking pants. Note that this is not the same front pocket that most pants have. This is a Velcro-closure pocket that opens where a person's fingertips hit the pants when at rest. The bottom of the pocket is at knee-level.

2. For a large, double sided map, please state your preference for its folded size and reasons: 4" x 7" 4.25" x 9.25" or 3.75" x 5"
FWIW, I'd prefer a single-sided map, made as small as humanly possible. 3.75 x5 would be okay.

3. What would your ideal paper type?
Something waterproof and indestructible.

4. Your ideal guidebook size would be small 5"x7" or larger 5.5"x8.5" and explain.
The ideal would be 2.5 x 4 and feature tear-out pages. FWIW, I do this with my WMG- at the trailhead, I tear out the pages that describe the trails I may encounter. That way, I always have a description of the trail available.

 

[Peakbagr]

Keep 'em coming. These are great comments and you're helping to shape what the final product will look like.

 

[sdways01]

1. I have a regular topo in the top pocket of my pack. I do a close up printout of the area I am hiking though on a 8.5x11 piece of paper folded in half twice that is in my pants pocket (possibly in a ziplock bag)
2. I think 4x7 is the size I normally carry. If I were to carry it in my pocket though, I would prefer 3.75x5
3. Probably tyvek. My Map Adventures one is waterproof, but I think it might be losing detail on the folds where it gets wear
4. I don't carry a guidebook with me. I might print out parts of trail descriptions on the back of the map I print and carry in my pocket though

 

[madmattd]

1. Do you carry a topo map in your pocket, in your pack or leave it back in your vehicle? (this should be an excellent topo, not something designed to plan hikes)
Depending on where I am going/how well I know the lay of the land, etc determines where it lives during the hike. A main trail to somewhere I know, the map lives in the top of my pack. Somewhere different, or I'm going off-trail, it goes in the thigh pocket of my pants/shorts.

2. For a large, double sided map, please state your preference for its folded size and reasons: 4" x 7" 4.25" x 9.25" or 3.75" x 5"
~4"x6" fits my pocket nicely, but I imagine the 4x7 would be fine too.

3. What would your ideal paper type?
Anything waterproof/tearproof is fine, I'm not too picky. I have the Map Adventures map for most of my White Mountains wandering, and that material while a bit bulky, is fine. The AMC tearproof maps are a nice material too, as is the National Geographic print-your-own-tyvek map paper.

4. Your ideal guidebook size would be small 5"x7" or larger 5.5"x8.5" and explain.
I usually don't carry a guidebook for the same reasons others have stated: it's just too dang big and heavy now (the AMC ones at least). If it was a small/light one, maybe I would at times, especially for new-to-me areas. So, the smaller the better.

I want to agree with the comment about contour interval. The 100' on the AMC maps is useless to me. The 20m (65.5') on my Map Adventures map is OK, but I really prefer at a minimum the 40' used on most USGS topos. Otherwise it is just a planning map to me.