Truth Time: Could you survive 24 hours?

[una_dogger]

Right! And death is just not an option as far as I'm concerned.

Its impressive what you've overcome, Doug.

 

[John K]

I said yes cause I have been stuck for 24 hours with minimal gear in bad weather. I dont remember being nervous - more frustrated at being uncomfortable and how I would explain this one. I also agree with Pete - while I like to believe I have the mental toughness I think it just experience that says get up and walk or as Una says I refuse to have death as an option. Keep it simple.

 

[Rick]

Like Pete and DougPaul (Thogh not as severe), When I took a tumble in the Niagara Gorge and completely tore My ACL 15 years ago, I had to hike back up and out. I was in tremendous pain - I didn't think of anything but climbing back out.

I then had to drive a 5 speed to the hospital (shifting was easy. Clutching made me cry!!!). It wasn't until I got to the hospital that I broke down and cried and started shaking.

30 years ago I worked on an ambulance squad and I found that it wasn't until we got the patients to the hospital that I would start shaking. It was especially bad after doing CPR for 8 minutes (thought I would die) and then another time holding a 90% detached scalp onto the skull of a bicycle victim for 10 minutes.

As for the question. I would survive. I might not be comfortable, but I will live.

I don't panic. I think I am fortunate enough to have Common sense and knowledge that daylight will soon be back. I think intestinal fortitude, a strong positive attitude and the knowledge that you still control your destiny (as well as the ability to laugh at my foolish mistakes) all contribute to the survivor mentality. It also helps to mentally prioritize a checklist and know what's important and what's not.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Panic and death

Panic: I think if I was with someone, and some of the things that happened to me, happened to that other person, I might panic. Happening to me, there is no panic.

Death: I never thought, "I have to do this of I'll die." I just thought "I have to do this." The possibility of death didn't come until after things were over.

Like I said before, when something happens, you just get into a different mode. You can't predict how things will go.

 

[DougPaul]

Right! And death is just not an option as far as I'm concerned.

AFAIK, we are all going to die someday, but I don't see any point in rushing it...

Its impressive what you've overcome, Doug.

To me it just felt like I did what I had to do. OK, my leg is broken, time for a new plan...

Nothing compared to Doug Scott's multi-day crawl down the Orge (Pakistan, 7285m) with two broken ankles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ogre_(mountain)
http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article/mps/UAN/4576/SP/590650384556536697538/v/1
http://outside.away.com/outside/features/200210/200210_big_moments_1.html
http://medlibrary.org/medwiki/Baintha_Brakk

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

I then had to drive a 5 speed to the hospital (shifting was easy. Clutching made me cry!!!). It wasn't until I got to the hospital that I broke down and cried and started shaking.

Yes. Many people tend to stay in control while they have to. It is only when they can hand the reponsibility over to someone else that the dicipline breaks down. In some hypothermia cases, the victim holds on until the rescuers arrive, and then dies...

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Panic: I think if I was with someone, and some of the things that happened to me, happened to that other person, I might panic. Happening to me, there is no panic.

Death: I never thought, "I have to do this of I'll die." I just thought "I have to do this." The possibility of death didn't come until after things were over.

Like I said before, when something happens, you just get into a different mode. You can't predict how things will go.

Same here. I recall no thoughts of panic or death. Again, I just did what I had to do.

Doug

 

[SkierSteve]

Panic can be a powerful force to overcome. I think everyone has run different situations through their mind, what would i do if this happened, how would I survive if that happened. But when the un-planned happens being able to maintain an inner calm isn't always easy. Its analagous to the boxer whose whole prefight plan goes out the window after he gets hit for the first time. Reality hits hard.
This past winter I was skiing on the back side of Cannon after a series of large storms. I somehow hooked a hidden root, launched and landed upside down on the edge of the trail, head down and my skis up and still on. The snow I was in was so deep, when I came to all I could see was white and couldn't find the ground. Controlling the panic from feeling so out of control was incredible difficult. I started to thrash around and hyperventilate, not good. It was only after being able to gather myself that I could slowly extricate myself.
Having the inner strength to deal with adversity and maintain a clear head is by far the most important piece of gear anyone will ever carry.

 

[imarchant]

Panic: I think if I was with someone, and some of the things that happened to me, happened to that other person, I might panic. Happening to me, there is no panic.

Actually research shows the opposite is true. The survival rate for groups is higher than for solo. The study was done for being lost. The results may vary with injury

 

[SAR-EMT40]

Actually research shows the opposite is true. The survival rate for groups is higher than for solo. The study was done for being lost. The results may vary with injury

Many people are more driven to rise to an occasion to help others in a survival situation than they would be to just try to help themselves. My understanding is this is a very common group dynamic. They will often disregard their own injuries to help others. Often they would have just laid down if they were alone. Groups tend to help people focus. When you have a task to focus on you are far less likely to panic.


The mnemonic that I train people on is the STOP mnemonic. Its not mine but I like it.

SIT DOWN - so you stop moving, calm down and try to relax.
THINK – about how you got into the situation, can you get out easily?
OBSERVE – make sure you look around, are you missing something obvious or useful?
PLAN – Consider your course of action, make a plan to stay put or to try to self rescue.


Keith

 

[hikingfish]

I've often thought about trying it and would be willing to participate under monitored conditions. Here's the basic problem; this would be good practice, but not a valid test. If you were prepared to be "lost and/or injured" you would not be under the same mental and (obviously) physical stresses. Stess can be good and bad in emergency situations; endorphins etc.

But it would be good practice and would make a good trip report. I'd try to join anyone else willing to organize this or submit themselves to it. I'd insist on some sort of overnight monitoring, with a very light trigger, due to the risk of hypothermia.

As I mentioned in my post, I'd love to try it too...In the end, only an accident can be as real as...an accident, but it is still better preparation than simply reading Freedom of the hills

Fish

 

[SAR-EMT40]

I believe I am prepared. I solo a lot not only hiking but also camping so I try to be self sufficient whenever I am out. An unintended overnight or two and even longer ones don’t really worry me much. I have quite a bit of gear with me even on day hikes. My day hike bag is basically my 48 hour search bag without the medical equipment. It’s a small backpack (1400 ci) and not too heavy, at least I don’t consider it bad. I over pack by a fair amount and have what I would take on a bare bones camping trip so if I need to stay out it is really just a camping trip. I have never had an unplanned overnight and providing I wasn’t killed outright or severely injured I don’t believe I would have any problems. Of course if I’m spending an unintended overnight something has gone wrong with my plan and it probably wasn’t a navigation error. I have the equipment and often hike extensively during the night so nightfall wouldn’t prevent me from getting out. I think that my most probable reasons would be either a serious injury or I got into an area bushwhacking that is so thick that it has slowed my normally slow pace down to an absolute crawl or I have come across something impassable like 8 foot deep muck (this happened once and no real hint on the map) and had to radically change my plans. Exhaustion would also be a reason for me spending a night out. My primary emergency lifeline would be my radio which I have been able to make contact with others in most of the areas of the forest, including many parts of the ‘dacks with some caveats. I can use this to summon help for me or thee or just to get a message to my family so they will know I'll be late.

Just my $.02,
Keith

 

[dvbl]

... I have quite a bit of gear with me even on day hikes. My day hike bag is basically my 48 hour search bag without the medical equipment. It’s a small backpack (1400 ci) and not too heavy, at least I don’t consider it bad. I over pack by a fair amount and have what I would take on a bare bones camping trip so if I need to stay out it is really just a camping trip...

Would you mind telling us what you pack?

 

[griffin]

My day hike bag is basically my 48 hour search bag without the medical equipment. It’s a small backpack (1400 ci) and not too heavy, at least I don’t consider it bad.

Would you mind sharing your gear list?

For day hikes, at minimum I have water, food, a rain jacket or insulating layer, a map and some basic first aid items. More depending on where I"m hiking and what the weaher looks like. I also have a little wilderness first aid training. I'd like to think I'd survive an unplanned overnight. I might be uncomfortable. I might be very uncomfortable.

But I also hope I never find out!

 

[Pig Pen]

Does anyone know the mortality rate for trail-runners? They usually do lengthy trail runs with just a Camelback, I see them all the time. Given the fact that the precautions mentioned in this thread are necessary for safety, I figure a lot of trail-runners must have died by now.

 

[Neil]

I figure a lot of trail-runners must have died by now.

Trail runners don't die, they slow to a walk.

 

[DougPaul]

A good exercise is to take only your normal daypack and go spend a night out in your back yard (or a friend's back yard). Or in a campground, or step off a trail at any legal spot close to the car.

A relatively easy and safe way to test your overnight capability.

Rules: you are only allowed to go inside to "use the woods".

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Does anyone know the mortality rate for trail-runners? They usually do lengthy trail runs with just a Camelback, I see them all the time. Given the fact that the precautions mentioned in this thread are necessary for safety, I figure a lot of trail-runners must have died by now.

If they stick to fairly popular trails at times of high usage, someone (perhaps another trail runner...) is likely to discover them fairly soon.

Also known as carrying your security in someone else's rucksack...

Doug

 

[SAR-EMT40]

Does anyone know the mortality rate for trail-runners? They usually do lengthy trail runs with just a Camelback, I see them all the time. Given the fact that the precautions mentioned in this thread are necessary for safety, I figure a lot of trail-runners must have died by now.

Considering that I am one of the people who often support people like trail runners and long distance this and adventure racing that and etc. with medical support and other assistance. I would say that they typically have a considerable safety net. Most of it is done on pretty used trails anyway so someone (during practice) is bound to be by shortly anyway. Now, if you are fortunate enough to be one of those that are in the prime of your life and in the top 10% of physical condition I can tell you I remember those times. I had got myself out of many situations by brute force in and out of the army. Many others have learned over time that you may not always be able to get yourself out of a situation by brute force. This is called experience and seeing the larger picture. For those of us who fall into that category we use planning, resources and our brain.

If you indeed fall into the top 10% and want to play the way you are I have no problems with that. More power to you. Like I said, I remember those days. I will be the one moving slower than you though just as happily and enjoying my wilderness experience no less than you, maybe more. Because I travel slow enough to notice many things I didn’t when I use to run through the area. And if by chance I see you hurt on the trail not to worry. I’ll be happy to stop and more than likely I’ll have enough knowledge, experience and equipment to help.

Keith

 

[SAR-EMT40]

A good exercise is to take only your normal daypack and go spend a night out in your back yard (or a friend's back yard). Or in a campground, or step off a trail at any legal spot close to the car.

A relatively easy and safe way to test your overnight capability.

Rules: you are only allowed to go inside to "use the woods".

Doug

I fully agree with this. Secondly, I never take anything into the woods I don't test in a controlled way first usually at home. Why would I want to carry something in my pack I don't know for sure works?

Keith