Untreated Ethan Pond Water?

[wromanow]

I spent two nights at Ethan Pond Campsite (Sept. 12th & 13th, 2009) and drank 6L of water over two days from Ethan Pond. I tested my First Needs Deluxe Filter when I returned home and found the dye test (which I normally test prior to trips) failed. I strongly suspect I ingested 6L of untreated water taken from running water section (near rock bridge to campsite). I'm asking anyone has contracted giardia from Ethan Pond water or suspect that is where they were infected? Thanks!

 

[Variocana]

Probability is on your side

www.erikschlimmer.com/pdf/GiardiaMyth-Buster.pdf

Worry not. Please read the above link.
There is a lot of evidence that giardia worry is over the top.
If you end up with giardia you will know, go to your family physican and you will be treated for it.
Probability is on your side.
Keep us posted my guess is you will be fine.
as always,
Vario

 

[DougPaul]

www.erikschlimmer.com/pdf/GiardiaMyth-Buster.pdf

Worry not. Please read the above link.

That link hardly constitutes reliable evidence concerning the safety of Ethan Pond. Some of the analysis is completely useless...

There is a lot of evidence that giardia worry is over the top.

Probably true if one is careful in choosing one's water sources. But one does not always have ideal sources to choose from. And there are other pathogens to worry about.

If you end up with giardia you will know, go to your family physican and you will be treated for it.

Not necessarily true. One can become an asymptomatic carrier and give it to others without experiencing symptoms.

FWIW, I have had intestinal symptoms most likely from some untreated White Mountain river water. I don't believe it was giardia.


I don't know how good or bad Ethan Pond's water actually is. (The WMG says water should be taken from an inlet brook and is not fit to drink without treatment.) There are latrines close by which are hopefully isolated from the pond and the inlet brook.

Your filter probably improved the water even if it was not working perfectly. You will likely be ok. My suggestion is that you simply monitor and if you develop any intestinal symptons see your doctor.

Doug

 

[Mattl]

Just sit back and hope for the best. The stream leading into Ethan Pond comes from a small bog at the height of land, whatever is potentially wrong with it would most likely come from there. Looking at it though, I think it is free of beavers, which lowers the chance of getting anything.

-Mattl

 

[Pete_Hickey]

... free of beavers...

I worry more about camping areas for humans being upstream, than I do for beavers.

 

[Stash]

I shared Imp shelter last fall with a couple ultra-light guys (one local, one from out west) who didn't carry a filter for weight savings and claimed, as they drank the red water from the stream near the shelter, never to have filtered/treated water and never have a problem. I'm sure the color of the water that day was from harmless sources but I'll bear the weight burden and keep my Katadyn Hiker just in case.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

..... they drank the red water from the stream near the shelter, never to have filtered/treated water and never have a problem. ......

I frequently drink untreated water in a whole bunch of places, however I don't know if it means that the places are giardia-free, or if I'm one of those carriers who are immune to the symptoms.

 

[Stash]

I worry more about camping areas for humans being upstream, than I do for beavers.

...though some (or one anyway) would consider this a plus...

 

[Variocana]

Let's get real

Thank you Pete Hickey, as usual you are a voice of reason.

For others; Please do not continue to scare poster wromanow. It takes a lot of cysts to contract giardia I would doubt 6L of water would be sufficient to infect.

To the original poster please don't lose sleep over this.

As for this quote;

One can become an asymptomatic carrier and give it to others without experiencing symptoms.

Even exchanging bodily fluids with another person and *trying* to give them giardia would be highly unlikely due to the number of cysts required to infect.

as always,
Vario

 

[Stash]

For others; Please do not continue to scare poster wromanow. It takes a lot of cysts to contract giardia I would doubt 6L of water would be sufficient to infect.

I find it difficult to believe that a recommendation to treat water as a normal course of action would constitute scaring the original poster. I and most of those I hike with consider this to be a standard and easy practice to avoid a potentially undesirable situation.

 

[JoeCedar]

I worry more about camping areas for humans being upstream, than I do for beavers.

I worry more about moose in the Whites than I do beavers. One moose generates a lot more waste than 20 beavers, and they wander at higher elevations more than most other mammals.

 

[DougPaul]

Thank you Pete Hickey, as usual you are a voice of reason.

Just because one person can drink the water without problems does not mean that others can. Your digestive system can, to some extent, adapt to the microorganisms in the water that you drink. Thus the local, who has adapted to the local water, may be fine whereas a visitor, who has not adapted to the local water, may have problems. And just because one does not have symptoms does not mean that one is not a carrier. 4-7% of Americans are estimated to have giardiasis, most without symptoms.

For others; Please do not continue to scare poster wromanow. It takes a lot of cysts to contract giardia I would doubt 6L of water would be sufficient to infect.

Studies have shown that it takes 10 or more cysts to have a reasonable probability of getting giardia. Some sources of water will have far in excess of 10 cysts/6L.

As for this quote;

One can become an asymptomatic carrier and give it to others without experiencing symptoms.

Even exchanging bodily fluids with another person and *trying* to give them giardia would be highly unlikely due to the number of cysts required to infect.

Wake up. Transmission from other humans (fecal-oral or fecal-hand-oral) is probably the most common method of spread. Children are major reservoirs and vectors (spreaders).

Get some real information:
http://www.epa.gov/waterscience/humanhealth/microbial/giardiafs.pdf
J.A. Wilkerson, "Medicine for Mountaineering", 5th ed, p 140-141.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giardia_lamblia
http://www.ridgenet.net/~rockwell/Giardia.pdf


I think it is reasonably safe to say that most backcountry water in the NE US that is free of obvious hazards is probably ok, but there are no guarantees.

Doug

 

[Nutsosa]

. . . Children are major reservoirs and vectors (spreaders). . . .

I can vouch for that one. My wife is a preschool teacher, and brought it home from school once. Wow. I mean, just, wow. What a great way to clear your GI tract. I've never caught it on the trail though.

Transmission from other humans (fecal-oral or fecal-hand-oral) is probably the most common method of spread.

OK, the latter makes sense but the former, I just don't want to know.

 

[Variocana]

Backcountry Water IS Not Preschool Daycare Diaper Handling

Preschool daycare, diaper handling, then lack of or insufficient hand washing, then changing then food handling is *not* the same as drinking back country water, lets all stay on topic here.

There is a lot of unsupported evidence that giardia is a huge threat. Please do not persist in giving the original poster the hee bee jee bees about drinking 6L of water.

This link is from the Wilderness Medical Society:

http://www.wemjournal.org/wmsonline...&issn=1080-6032&volume=015&issue=04&page=0235

Again, original poster, please do not lose sleep or beat yourself up over drinking that 6L of water.

as always,
Vario

 

[Nutsosa]

Preschool daycare, diaper handling, then lack of or insufficient hand washing, then changing then food handling is *not* the same as drinking back country water, lets all stay on topic here.
....

I guess I didn't make my point clear, but it was an attempt to reassure wromanow. I've consumed plenty of untreated water on the trail and I have never fallen ill. The only time I DID get sick, was off the trail. Of course that does not mean that somebody else would have the same experience, but it is an example of someone who drank water from lots of backcountry sources and did not get sick.

My apologies if that strayed too far from the topic.

 

[Waumbek]

I guess I didn't make my point clear, but it was an attempt to reassure wromanow. I've consumed plenty of untreated water on the trail and I have never fallen ill. The only time I DID get sick, was off the trail. Of course that does not mean that somebody else would have the same experience, but it is an example of someone who drank water from lots of backcountry sources and did not get sick.

My apologies if that strayed too far from the topic.

I understood your point; it was perfectly clear. It's useful to contextualize giardia in the contaminated world we live in, whether it's salmonella in the veggies, MRSA in the beach sand, or whatever floats around in our drinking water (public or private source). I'm not wringing my hands that this contamination level is increasing; I have no idea what it was like 100 years ago. But the threat is all around us, not just in untreated pond water. Because of that, rather than in spite of it, I choose to reduce risk wherever possible and treat backcountry water. All that I would say to the original poster is that it's good you checked your filter when you got home. Smart move. If symptoms do develop, you'll know where to start with a remedy.

 

[Stash]

Interesting timing on a new thread.

http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=32303

 

[TCD]

Yes, I saw that too. Considering that the subject material has already been linked early in this existing thread, there really is no reason for a separate thread. It should be closed, and that post moved over here.

Now, replying to that post (as if it were here), I would say that it probably is true that "most" backcountry water is safe. But "most" is not a very strong assurance when your health is concerned. I live on a fairly quiet street. "Most" of the time, I could step out blindly into the street at midnight and not get hit by a car. But am I going to start doing that?

This discussion gets confused becasue we are not all talking about the same thing:

There's one discussion regarding what proportion of backcountry water is safe. The output of that feeds to a second discussion on each individuals risk tolerance regarding that particular path of infection. And the output of that feeds to a third discussion about risk tolerance and best practices overall for all paths of infection, including camper hygiene, etc.

TCD

 

[Quietman]

This thread has mainly addressing Giardia. I contracted a very nasty case of Cryptosporidium infection after drinking from an outlet stream from a lake (I was very dehydrated.) I know that there is no positive proof that I contracted it from the stream, but the subsequest hospitalization and IV administration was enough for me to buy a filter.

I've also found a nice cold spring that I was tempted to drink straight from, only to walk uphill a few steps only to find a huge pile of moose pellets. At that point I was glad to have the filter, even if only for the ounce of prevention.

Not trying to scare the OP, just giving a few of my experiences.

Hope you have no ill effects!

 

[Laurie Maynard]

I'm asking anyone has contracted giardia from Ethan Pond water or suspect that is where they were infected? Thanks!

I'm going to say the simple answer to this is.....no. At least I haven't read anything HERE about anyone getting sick from the pond. It's unfortunate that your filter wasn't working. Hopefully you are feeling ok .

As for whether you should, or shouldn't treat your water....Wouldn't you kind of compare drinking untreated water to the likes of having unprotected sex! Why risk it right?! Especially when you have the means to protect yourself. You can't always judge a book, or water source, by it's cover.