Vermont

[rup]

Any one been on any of the 5 4000 fters in VT, or have recent info on trail conditions???

 

[marchowes]

I would expect snow on all of them, some places there is probably some fairly deep snow in spots so plan with that in mind The best approaches to all peaks except camel's hump right now are probably still the ski trails.

 

[nancy]

Just got back from a section hike on the AT/LT. While we didn't go over any 4kers, we spoke to a thru hiker who had come over Killington on Saturday. He said there was lots of snow. He used snowshoes and complained about sinking in.

We came across a only a few patches of snow on the north side of Farr peak at about 3100ft, and many patches of moose droppings.

Black flies are out already, depending on the air temps. Not much mud to speak of up to Brandon Gap. Some blow downs have not been cleared yet, but the trail crews have been through north of David Logan shelter to Bloodroot gap. Thanks folks!

 

[albee]

I bushwhacked Mendon Peak (3840') yesterday. I didn't need snowshoes up there but there was still up to 2' of snow in some shaded areas. Higher elevations should have more, but this week's expected rain might hasten the melting process.

Saw about 7 cars with VT plates at Killington's Bucklin Trail parking lot. Apparently not all Vermonters heed the GMC's mud season requests. I'm of 2 minds on the mud season prohibition. I could see how masses of people could really impact particularly muddy trails. At the same time, there are ways to avoid churning up the mud... Stay on rocks or waterbars if possible. Recognize the difference between standing water and a mucky pit. Standard LNT stuff.

I suppose I'd recommend staying off the trails during mud season - it is only about 8 weeks out of the year.

 

[jmegillon149]

mud season ends after memorial day, so its not like you have to wait all that long.

 

[Peaks]

Officially, Mount Mansfield State Park and Camels Hump State Park are both closed from mid April until Memorial Day. Don't know how they can really enforce it, except at the popular trailheads.

 

[una_dogger]

FWIW, Albee, lots of us locals park at the Bucklin Trailhead to use Wheelerville Rd and the VAST trails there -- as you probably did during your bushwack up Mendon. There may well have been people hiking but there are other users of that lot, too.

I haven't been on any VT 4ks since winters end but a couple weekends ago there was about 2ft rotten snow above 3000k on Stratton and Dorset still has snow on it.

 

[albee]

All I said was I saw cars in the lot. If you really want to know, I saw and spoke to people at the trailhead about hiking to Killington. I didn't mention the mud-season thing to them because that's not my business, but I can tell you that I followed the standard Eddy Brook BW route to Mendon and didn't see a single person on the other trails in the area.

Sorry if I offended "you locals". I say hike your own hike, and I think that came across pretty clearly in my post.

 

[DrJJFate]

I don't think the GMC's request is about churning up mud. It's about those hikers who avoid the muddy areas of the trails by going around them, and thus widening trails.

If all hikers stayed on the trail through the mud, this wouldn't be much of an issue.

 

[jmegillon149]

It doesn't say why they oppose hiking in mud season. It could be the going around, it could be that churning it up DOES cause some sort of damage. I am not a soil scientis, let alone one who works for GMC.

I personally feel that one shoud respect the guidelines set forth by the various organizations that regulate, maintain etc., if that means no biking, staying off the trails in VT, staying off the Cabot trail alltogether, or whatever else is put forth, one should do so.

People who set these rules up know more about these things than we do. Defying regulations when there are plenty of other options is a pretty juvenile thing to do.

Reinterpretation for one's own benefit is also a questionable practice. Adressing the GMC about their policies' exact intent is one thing, making guesses (hewever well thought out) is another.

 

[DrJJFate]

From the Long Trail Guide (GMC-25th ed.) page 6: "Snowmelt creates extremely muddy trails and makes them vulnerable to damage from foot traffic, which is often compounded when hikers walk beside the trail to avoid the mud."

 

[jmegillon149]

From the Long Trail Guide (GMC-25th ed.) page 6: "Snowmelt creates extremely muddy trails and makes them vulnerable to damage from foot traffic, which is often compounded when hikers walk beside the trail to avoid the mud."

Key word: "compounded". According to that definition walking through causes some damage, as does walking around.

Like I said before, if they want people off the trails in April and May, please respect that and instead hike in the Whites, Maine, Berkshires, ADK's, Monadnock region, NH Lakes Region, Western CT or some other area where the trails are "open". I cannot imagine that closed trails in VT are the only hiking option anyone cound possibly have to hike in the next 13 days.

As a trail adopter (in the Whites), I am extra sensitive to damage being done that is unecessary, especially when it is in direct opposition to policies that are set forth for a reason.

 

[king tut]

I love my Green Mountains, lets keep them beautiful. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I will thank all of you later for keeping off the trails when i get out on a nice sunny warm day and enjoy the non eroded trails.

 

[una_dogger]

Just so we are all on the same page:

Taken from the Green Mountain National Forest Site:

"Date Areas usually suitable for hiking
April 15 Trails below 1000 feet in elevation
May 1 Trails below 2000 feet in elevation
May 15 Trails below 3000 feet in elevation
Memorial Day All trails"

and

"The period of snowmelt and muddy trails varies considerably throughout Vermont depending on elevation, solar orientation, depth of snow pack, and amount of spring rainfall. Hikers must exercise good judgment in assessing the stretch of trail they are considering hiking in early spring and refrain from using trails when muddy conditions prevail. The guidelines in the following table may help hikers plan outings in Vermont during the spring season, but the final decision on whether a trail is suitable for hiking must be based on the actual trail conditions the hiker encounters."


Complete Guidelines and Restrictions found here:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/gmfl/green_mountain/recreation_management/general/springhikingguide.htm

 

[Grumpy]

Arm’s post above (#3) provides this link to the GMC’s mud season page.

What the GMC has to say is quite unambiguous, in my opinion.

Essentially, it asks us to look beyond our own impulses and immediate convenience to take a longer view of the situation – that is, act like grownups capable of exercising reasonable judgment and self restraint. And it provides us some information that will help us achieve that end. Not too much to ask.

The New York DEC makes recommendations for mud season hiking in the High Peaks that are similar to those issued by the GMC and Green Mountain National Forest managers.

G.

 

[una_dogger]

I agree, Grumpy. That's why I like the USFS page, not only because they are the actual regulatory agency as opposed to a hiking club; but especially the concrete examples of trail dates listed by elevation. There are plenty of areas in the GMNF, along the LT and on GMC trails that are at lower elevation and suitable for hiking on before Memorial Day.

Of course, the original poster was wondering about trail conditions on 4ks.

 

[jrbren]

I had read on this forum that the reason Spring was especially bad because the ground underneath was still frozen, and the top was muddy. Not sure that makes sense to me, but so be it. If mud alone was a reason not to hike I would never, ever hike in the Adirondacks aside from winter when the trails are 100% snow covered. I would expect the *real* mud season to be extended beyond memorial day this year due to large snow pack well into April plus allot of rain this week (I read it is supposed to snow(new snow) in around Sugarloaf Maine this week). Spring is to nice of a season to not be in the mountains, IMHO.

 

[albee]

I think I'm in agreement with most of the posters in this thread, that these trails can be responsibly and respectfully used in all seasons as long as one uses good judgement and errs on the side of avoiding the use of trails that are likely to be too muddy. We wouldn't be having this debate or reading this thread if we didn't all love to hike in Vermont.

That was a good link, Una_dogger. I think people should also note that the GMNF is in agreement with the GMC in that they both "strongly discourage hiking on the Long Trail System and on other Vermont trails in mud season, particularly at higher elevations". Either way, it makes little difference if a regulatory agency or a hiking club "strongly discourages" something since they both are making a recommendation, not enforcing a rule or law. I think these groups are appealing to the hiker's better judgement, and that the majority of the people on these boards understand why and are likely to heed the official recommendations. It is the casual hiker that might not understand the nature of hiking at this time of year... that stepping around that icky mud puddle or walking in it up to your calves isn't always the best thing to do.

The "concrete examples of trail dates" are general guidelines that are usually suitable for hiking. This means that if we have a mild winter or a dry April, you could get away with hiking earlier. Usually suitable does not mean hiking in the fragile alpine zone on top of Camel's Hump on May 29th would be a good idea if it had rained hard the previous weekend. It is subjective, and their opinion of a muddy and unstable trail might not look too bad to me or you.

I don't think the GMC or the GMNF want people widening trails OR churning up mud. In my humble opinion, it is better to avoid trails when there is a high chance you'll end up eroding them. If I were to start hiking, I probably wouldn't want to turn back if I reached a swampy area 300 vertical feet from the summit.

Either way, I'm not going to tell you not to hike during mud season since I have been out there hiking in selected areas myself - that would make me a hypocrite. But I will try to encourage responsible use and knowledge of the reasons behind their recommendations, and I can legitimately say that I am aware of the situation and I tread with care on the trails and at the times when I feel I can do so appropriately.

 

[Tim Horn]

Areas on a trail that are churned into mud pits in the spring will revert to being mud pits with very little precipitation later in the year. That is why various organizations ask folks not to hike at all on the trails during mud season. We all know from experience that it is impossible to hike and stay only on rocks and roots the whole day even more so when crossing a particularly wet spot on the trail. One can plow on through most muddy places, but we have all encountered the "bottomless pit", where one is suddenly waist deep in mud. Bottom line, we can rationalize our actions til the cows come home but if we are hiking through mud season we are doing damage to the trails and that damage will diminish the enjoyment of others on the same trails later during the year. In the end we have a responsibility to each other to not encourage the use of trails during mud season or to stand idily by while folks with poor info damage the trail. We are members of a larger community and we should remember that our actions should never diminish the enjoyment of the trails for that larger community. "Do unto others"...........