What kind of ice axe?

[Trout]

Convert to summer use?

No. I use regular poles for most hiking.

 

[dave.m]

But as I got into the thread, it became more interesting as a commentary on what happens when a group of folks talks about a "macho" tool. I bet the conversation would look almost identical if we were to discuss chainsaws, guns, or motorcycles.

Nod. In backcountry circles, I think that list of macho tools includes: knives and winter tents. I think one of the most interesting aspects of this is how some items become (sub-)cultural icons of sorts. Personally, I was able to see that affect most clearly in discussion of knives and definitely more easily seen in a more international forum like rec.backcountry. IMO, 99.9% of the discussions on knives were really aesthetic arguments that were expressed in terms of different function. The aesthetic, how the knife makes the owner feel, is generally the real issue, not the function. And in many cases, this feeling is tied to some cultural (or sub-cultural) identity. Perhaps an ice axe has a similar status.

And it would look completely different if we had discussed snowshoes, camp stoves, or sewing machines.

(bold added)
Well, Colin Fletcher reminds us that it is easier to get a man to change religions than to change his stove.

 

[sierra]

THis is my last comment on ice axes, first would people on this board stop saying there so dangerous, my god you would think it got nytroglycerin in the tip, there not that stinking dangerous to use or carry unless your a clumsy idiot. Secondly, they not only are usefull, anyone worth their salt owns one and carries one, you pole guys just climb really wimpy routes and are jealous that real climbers are out there hacking their way up the good steep stuff.
Remember that dude awhile back that slid down the snowslope on Jefferson to his death, he was carrying POLES.

 

[dave.m]

THis is my last comment on ice axes,

I'll sleep better tonight with this knowledge!!

first would people on this board stop saying there so dangerous, my god you would think it got nytroglycerin in the tip, there not that stinking dangerous to use or carry unless your a clumsy idiot.

I'll bet you run with scissors, don't you?

Secondly, they not only are usefull, anyone worth their salt owns one and carries one, you pole guys just climb really wimpy routes and are jealous that real climbers are out there hacking their way up the good steep stuff.

GUFFAW!

There are old climbers and there are bold climbers but there's only one Fred Beckey.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

One poller or two

I'm a uni-poller. When I'm on showshoes, not using an ice-axe, I use a single pole, not two. (I do ski with two). What this means, is that my 'style' is very different than bipolar people.

I carry a long ice axe. The main reason I have it is or climbing steep snowy sections. I find it very useful. It is much more useful to i that context, than for self-arest. I'm not too frequently in a situation where that is important, but steep snow, I am.

I don't like stopping, so once I switch my pole and ice-axe, I tend to keep using it as short 'walking stick'. When I climbed Whitney last spring, I had lost my pole a day earlier, so I went with just y ice axe, using it for walking, even on the bare sections of the trail.

I think that being uni-poller makes it easier to walk carrying a long ice axe, and once you have it THERE in your hand, it tends to come in useful for all kinds of things. Not necessary, just useful.

 

[Tom Rankin]

...I think that being uni-poller makes it easier to walk carrying a long ice axe, and once you have it THERE in your hand, it tends to come in useful for all kinds of things. Not necessary, just useful.

I started doing this last winter for steep climbs, and it works well for me too.

 

[jfb]

There are some situations where an ice axe is the perfect tool and other situations where poles are the perfect tool, as in this photo

 

[giggy]

ice axe macho tool? - people use it to look cool?? Only newbies use them?

way too much analyzing here - though I very much respect the folks voicing these opinions.

the bottom line - use what your comfy with. I think they are an appropriate tool for many of the trails going up most of the 5000 footers in the whites -

Both poles and axes are appropriate - its what you want to use and feel better with.

I think the comments of the dangers of the axe is a bit out of control. yes - accidents happen - but I have to provide a counter argument here - not that many people get impaled by ice axes that i know of.

I typically use poles when carryining a heavy load on moderate inclines.

Typically - above treeline - I like a mountaineering axe. To each ther own I guess.

 

[DougPaul]

ice axe macho tool? - people use it to look cool?? Only newbies use them?

For some of us, ice axes and poles are just tools. Never really thought of them as status items.

Use whichever is appropriate.

Doug

 

[ralphnetta]

Ice Ax

I've used the Black Diamond Raven Pro 70cm with great success. This length seems to be perfect for general mountaineering.

 

[bruno]

i'm gonna vote for no axe. ya don't need one roun' here!! don't listen to what anyone says!! be a minimalist!!! an ice axe is SO not needed. i love the whites more than anything but let's face it--they ain't the friggin' alps or the rockies!!! buy plane tickets, not gear!!! go light!!!

(if'n ya want a macho accoutrement get on down to yer local motorcycle dealer!!! but don't get anything smaller than 1600 cc's!!! )

 

[dug]

Ah...yes...the Ice Axe. He likes to be brought on car rides as often as possible. Lays in the back of the trunk. Stays quiet. Peaks out the window and frowns upon leaving the car. "Too cold out there" he says. "I'll just hang around here keeping an eye on things, and when you get back from your hike I'll be waiting for you."

I dragged it along on two hikes, and found it a completely worthless device on most trails. Steep ravine/ice fields, yes. A walk in the woods on 90% of the trails in the northeast...no.

 

[Lawn Sale]

I always bring one, and have had to use it more than once. Winter Lion's Head is definitely much easier with tools, as are some of the other routes out of Tucks. Could I do the trails without one? Of course...I could also do them without crampons, but why would I want to?

 

[ChrisB]

I'm gonna vote for no axe. ya don't need one roun' here!! don't listen to what anyone says!! be a minimalist!!!

Huh?

The guy who fell down that little slide on the back of Wildcat D coming up from Ninteen Mile Brook provides an interesting case in point.

Does anyone know if he had an axe? I am assuming he tried to cross this "deep in the woods" hazard with poles.

A self-arrest might have saved a broken leg that day.

After that accident last winter that slide remained a hazard for several weeks until some decent snow cover was established. Definetly ice axe terrain if you ask me!

cb

 

[DougPaul]

Am doing this from memory, but ... as I recall, he was crossing the old slide area with his dog when the fall occurred. So, even if he'd had an ice axe (am reasonably certain he did not) it's questionable whether even a highly experienced person could have gotten into self-arrest position while attending to their dog.

Also from memory: IIRC, the guy who fell checked into our thread discussing our accident, but didn't say much (anything?) about his equipment, why he fell, or his opportunity for/success in self arresting.

I recall being left with inadequate information to learn anything that might keep others/me safer in the future.

Just searched for the thread on the accident--no luck. Perhaps the thread has been purged

Doug

 

[bobandgeri]

Check out this AMC Bulletin Board thread from January 2005. The person who had the accident uses the name "Burley" and talks about his equipment (10 point crampons and trekking poles) and questions if an axce would have helped. Just before he crossed the slide, he watched 8 others do so, one of whom slipped but caught himself when he dug in his crampons.

 

[Umsaskis]

Wow. Why do I feel like I opened Pandora's box here?

I still don't know if most of you think I should get an ice axe or not - haven't tallied up the votes! but at least now I know what kind to get. Given that I've climbed numerous peaks in winter (including the Wildcats from Nineteen-Mile Brook) without one, and that my sole purpose in getting one is for places like the Lion Head and Jefferson, I think I'll go ahead and get it for that purpose. Yes? And for all the other trails where I don't need it, I'll leave it home. I suspect that's what most of you do who have one, and it's only on a few trails that there is any real disagreement about whether to carry one.

 

[dug]

Umaskis-

Correct. I certainly wouldn't do a ravine or a step, exposed slope without one. However, your 19-Mile brook is a good example where I've never brought it in my trips to the area. Hence the comment I made about it just sitting in the car....

 

[DougPaul]

I still don't know if most of you think I should get an ice axe or not - haven't tallied up the votes! but at least now I know what kind to get.

Get an axe, or not, based upon whether you think you might need one, not a public vote.

Given that I've climbed numerous peaks in winter (including the Wildcats from Nineteen-Mile Brook) without one, and that my sole purpose in getting one is for places like the Lion Head and Jefferson, I think I'll go ahead and get it for that purpose. Yes? And for all the other trails where I don't need it, I'll leave it home. I suspect that's what most of you do who have one, and it's only on a few trails that there is any real disagreement about whether to carry one.

An axe is just a tool. Sometimes it is the best tool, sometimes not. Sometimes it is virtually required, sometimes not.

The same trail/route can vary considerably during winter. A axe can be worth carrying one day and not on another all on the same trail/route. I tend to carry mine if I think I might need it, which can be hard to guess from the parking lot. Sometimes I will carry both an axe and poles--one in my hand, the other on my pack.

When I carry an axe on a hike, I generally carry my 70cm Chouinard mountaineering axe, carbon fiber handle, steel head and spike, 1lb 13oz. (Great balance, sets well--good for everything from hiking and up to ~60deg ice climbing.)

If I were to buy a non-technical axe now, I would consider a 70cm BD Raven (1lb 1 oz). The head is a little small--perhaps a little light for efficient step cutting--and the shaft is a little thin--hard to grip as securely as a larger diameter shaft. Also less resistance in the snow for Piolet Canne (using it as a cane) or a boot-axe belay. (The Raven Pro is too light for my taste--I've seen reports of durability problems.) Also not interested in the Petzl Snowscopic Ice Axe--it looks to me like it would do a poor job as either a pole or an axe.

You do want the axe to be long enough for safe self-arrest--the spike should be alongside your hip, not pointing at your gut. (70cm does this very well for most people.) Plus or minus 5 cm if you are short or tall.

Get and read Chouinard's "Climbing Ice"--the best source I've seen on how to use an axe on lower angle terrain. (You can skip the parts on steep terrain if you wish. ) Read a book or get instruction--an axe isn't much good if you don't know how to use it. And practice self-arrest in a safe situation (safe runout or belayed). It should be a reflex--you may only get one try before you are bouncing down the hill with no hope of regaining control.

Doug

 

[sierra]

axe

`I use the BD Raven pro, its very light, effective for general mountaineering and the best part about it is, I found it on MT. Belford, that was the second ice axe Ive found in 2 years