Why Is My Backpack So Much Bigger Than Yours?

[DayTrip]

I was taken aback on the trail last week when a guy asked me if I was staying out overnight. Hanh? "Nope. Just day hiking but I like to be prepared" was my reply. But since the weather has turned colder way back when I've noticed that most people have pretty modest sized backpacks out there relative to mine. With all the threads on VFTT about carrying plenty of clothes, emergency clothes, emergency stoves, back up goggles, back up hat(s), back up glove(s), extra head lamps, batteries, bivy shelters, etc, etc, etc and that is even before you add in layers for the day, traction, water, food, etc how on earth can all that stuff be hiding in such small packs? Are that many winter hikers really out there carrying so little of this "essential gear"? It seems like winter hikers are just as bad as summer hikers for not having what they need in the event of a problem.

Am I missing something? I was using a 50L pack until recently but switched to a multi-day model (I think 90L) just so it was easy to organize all of this stuff into convenient places to access and lash snow shoes onto it, etc. (The 50L held everything - it was just too cluttered for me). I've seen the gear lists and photos on VFTT of people's gear and I can't imagine this stuff fitting into such little packs, never mind how much it weighs. I've gone over my "stuff" several times and none of it is stuff I really want to be without. Maybe my camera and gorilla pod would be the only stuff I'd classify as non-essential.

So I'm curious:
1) What size pack are most of you hiking in?
2) What does your fully loaded pack weigh (lbs), including food and water?

I've always assumed winter hikers were generally the more experienced and thus more prepared hikers but most of the people I'm passing can't possibly be carrying all these essentials. Am I missing something?

 

[bikehikeskifish]

40L Osprey Stratos. With crampons, 'spikes, snowshoes and 2L of water it comes in about 33 pounds. Stuff sacks are your friends!

Here's what is inside: https://picasaweb.google.com/102470229665583617112/Gear

Tim

 

[BobC]

I'm kind of on the hunt for a new winter pack but for now I'm going to try using my Kelty Redwing for winter hikes. I can't remember the exact model but it's under 3,000 CI. Fits everything I have for winter but it's pretty cramped. I do know what you mean about seeing people with tiny packs...I see this all the time in winter.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

If I get a new winter pack, I will probably go for a 50L. No bigger than that.

Tim

 

[mirabela]

I've found 45L is more or less the winter daypack sweet spot for me; depending what I'm lugging I usually come in between 20 and 30 pounds. I think the short answer to your question, with no intent to start a flame war, is that there are plenty of people out there with less than they'd need were their trip to run off the rails in one way or another.

 

[akafuzzjones]

Whether summer or winter, I find that many people don't have all that they would need to either handle a common emergency and/or to stay in the woods overnight.

I think I carry all of the items that are on most of the winter gear lists and can get it all into my Ospery Variant 52L (a great winter pack by the way). I also have a few extra items since I typically am leading groups (most notably a bigger first aid kit).

I haven't weighed it in a while but I would think it would be about 35 - 40 pounds.

 

[DayTrip]

OK. I guess I'm in the ball park with weight. I think mine came in at 32-33 lbs. I do like the larger backpack for the added padding of the hip and shoulder belts, suspension, etc. Makes carrying that load a lot more comfortable. My Kelty Redwing 50 was adequate for the gear but the straps on that model are fairly thin and narrow relative to other packs. I like the way the Kelty packs are organized with their pockets, dividers, etc. Once I have a better idea of what I want to be carrying I guess I'll focus on how to make that gear smaller. Thanks.

 

[Red Oak]

I think snowshoes with good traction can eliminate the need for micros most of the time. Extra socks can double as extra mitt liners. I usually hike with a 15 to 22 pound pack including water and food. Keep in mind some people might think my pack weight is too heavy. There was a great thread on this topic before?

 

[cushetunk]

I pack everything in about 40L. Crampons usually go on the outside, along with snowshoes, ice axes, avalanche shovel, climbing ropes, skis, or whatever else I happen to want to carry. I put water bottles inside my pack. Before water and the assorted extras listed above, my base pack weight with clothes is very light, though I have no idea about the number of pounds. I've put some effort into figuring out an efficient but very warm layering system that avoids unnecessary bulk, and it has paid off. I also don't typically carry a stove, bivy sack, extra backup goggles, or all those other odds and ends that would mostly just increase the chances that I'll twist an ankle or knee. (Extra hat and the Mercury Mitts, however, almost always go in the pack in winter!)

One nice thing about having a 40L pack is that I'm not tempted to add stuff just because I have the room.

Finally, I pack for specific conditions and objectives, not for some Platonic ideal of a "winter hike." If something goes into my pack, it is because I plan to use it or because it has a very good chance of being useful in the type of predicaments I would expect to face given the conditions and objectives.

 

[akafuzzjones]

One nice thing about having a 40L pack is that I'm not tempted to add stuff just because I have the room.

This is why it took me a long time to go from the 37L Variant to the 52L version.

I like to have everything "inside" to reduce the chances of getting snagged on a tree so I was able to move some of the stuff that I would hang on the 37 into the 52. Usually end up wearing the snowshoes all off the time so they aren't often on the pack.

 

[KV]

..carrying plenty of clothes, emergency clothes, emergency stoves, back up goggles, back up hat(s), back up glove(s), extra head lamps, batteries, bivy shelters, etc, etc, etc and that is even before you add in layers for the day, traction, water, food,etc...... Am I missing something?

My pack is 3800 cu inches, which I think translates to about 60L, but the design of the Osprey Aura series makes it seem smaller. In addition to all my other gear (dsl camera, firestarters, matches, small first aid kit, map, compass, etc.) I DO carry extra clothes (could qualify as either "plenty" or "emergency"...though I like to think of them as "necessary"). If I hike solo, I usually have a stove. I do have back up hat and gloves, extra head lamp (singular), batteries, bivy shelter. The layers for the day are included in the initial clothing, traction is either shoes, spikes, hounds or at least 2 of those 3. I always have poles, don't always use 'em. I tend to carry (and drink) lots of water in addition to either hot cider or hot coffee. I always have emergency food in addition to my snacks for the day (larabars, stinger bars, white chocolate - allergic to brown). "Lunch" is usually PBJ on a sub roll.

I don't know weight, might be about 20 lbs. I think though, if I were to weigh myself before getting dressed, then weigh myself again fully dressed and booted up and with my pack it would be closer to 25-30 lbs. I am a 5'4" woman, and weigh about 140-145 lbs. I think this is a factor when discussing pack weight b/c my clothing, for instance, does not weigh as much as Tim's (bikeshikesfish). Just sayin'

I too am often asked where I spent the night, or where I plan to spend it. We often remark about others' seemingly under-weight packs when we are out doing many miles or 4K peaks.

 

[Mike P.]

My winter pack is a 3,000 CI, crampons and water are in bags attached to the outside. (2500 or a fanny pack in summer depending on the day, weather and destination) Last time I checked the weight with food and water, it was 35 pounds.

Are all winter hikers better prepared or are some just luckier than others? (most of the people here are better prepared & knowledgable also but while VFTT'ers make up probably much less than 1% of summer hikers, we may make up 2 or 3% in winter)

What we each carry probably depends on destination and what we wear to start. If I have to pull out extra socks, them means I've fallen into a brook over the boot tops. For me, it's time to leave then. I've only used my goggles once or twice, if they come out, unless I'm near the summit, I'm likely turning back. I've had cold fingers before so multiple pairs of gloves and mittens are where I over pack. If it's so cold & I need to pull out my warmest gloves (EMS Expeditions mitts from the late 90's) it's time to consider turning back.

I'm not much for turning back for inclement weather from May - October as we know the margin of error in winter is less than summer. Therefore, I'm more more willing to turn back in winter, if it looks bad, more willing to do Pierce again (3 or 4X in winter, a dozen trips total) than find out I bit off too much weather wise on the higher peaks.

Don't carry a stove put do carry a thermos full of hot water. Never have needed it on the trail but back in the car, it's felt wonderful. (Convinced warm or hot water on a cold day is better than cold water on a hot day)

 

[Tom Rankin]

I was taken aback on the trail last week when a guy asked me if I was staying out overnight. Hanh? "Nope. Just day hiking but I like to be prepared" was my reply. But since the weather has turned colder way back when I've noticed that most people have pretty modest sized backpacks out there relative to mine. With all the threads on VFTT about carrying plenty of clothes, emergency clothes, emergency stoves, back up goggles, back up hat(s), back up glove(s), extra head lamps, batteries, bivy shelters, etc, etc, etc and that is even before you add in layers for the day, traction, water, food, etc how on earth can all that stuff be hiding in such small packs? Are that many winter hikers really out there carrying so little of this "essential gear"? It seems like winter hikers are just as bad as summer hikers for not having what they need in the event of a problem.

Am I missing something? I was using a 50L pack until recently but switched to a multi-day model (I think 90L) just so it was easy to organize all of this stuff into convenient places to access and lash snow shoes onto it, etc. (The 50L held everything - it was just too cluttered for me). I've seen the gear lists and photos on VFTT of people's gear and I can't imagine this stuff fitting into such little packs, never mind how much it weighs. I've gone over my "stuff" several times and none of it is stuff I really want to be without. Maybe my camera and gorilla pod would be the only stuff I'd classify as non-essential.

So I'm curious:
1) What size pack are most of you hiking in?
2) What does your fully loaded pack weigh (lbs), including food and water?

I've always assumed winter hikers were generally the more experienced and thus more prepared hikers but most of the people I'm passing can't possibly be carrying all these essentials. Am I missing something?

I'm not going to weigh my pack or state everything that's in it (it varies), but I have just about everything you mentioned, one way or another. I always try to find the lightest and most versatile of any item. It might cost more, but it's worth it to me.

 

[Peakbagr]

45L for me, depending on whether I use a panel loader or top loader. If you have no trouble carrying a large pack, go for it.
I'm sometimes surprised at the very small packs I see some people carrying in winter in photos that accompany trip reports. Lots of folks will likely being relying on 'the kindness of others' if they get into trouble.

 

[DougPaul]

I was taken aback on the trail last week when a guy asked me if I was staying out overnight. Hanh?

Such a question reveals the ignorance of the questioner...

I try to carry enough gear to survive overnight if immobilized for some reason. Thus:

My winter day pack is a 4000 cu in internal frame pack with compression straps. The compressibility is very handy because I can adapt the pack to the current load. This size also allows me to carry a closed-cell foam pad inside the pack. (Everything except snowshoes and ice axe fits inside.)

Its total weight with contents generally ranges from the low to high twenties lbs. (FWIW, everything necessary to stabilize me at my accident (broken femur) site was in my pack.)

Doug

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I with my 40L pack and the Z-rest (I think it is the Z-rest mostly) occasionally get asked if I am backpacking.

Tim

 

[iagreewithjamie]

I have a 65L pack I use year round. Generally in winter, I wind up using the compression straps to reduce it to about 40 L.
Pack weight is usually 30-35 pounds.
Events I can survive/treat: sudden blizzard, emergency bivouac, broken anything (except broken neck), hypothermia, full submersion in water, running out of food.
How many times have I actually used my emergency gear to do any of the above? ZERO (I think I've only ever used a compression brace and bandaid, thank goodness).

However, if I'm ever featured in the Union Leader, it will be "Well-equipped hiker survives blizzard with overnight with broken leg", or "The whole party would've died had it not been for being discovered by one extremely well-equipped hiker".

Granted, climbing up Monadnock yesterday in 40 degree temps with all of that winter crap was miserable. The "ice storm" promised by the folks at the gate never arrived.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

So, Jamie (and others), that begs the question - do you feel that the extra pack size and weight is ever a liability? This is often the argument given by the "light and fast" followers. I try and stay in the middle, but anecdotally, I've been mistaken for an overnighter, but never been called out for going too light.

Tim

 

[Tim Seaver]

I pretty much put a different pack together for every hike, depending on my familiarity with the hike, the weather, etc. Usually about 18-25 lbs before camera gear. If I am just getting a quick run up something like Camel's Hump on a nice day, I won't be carrying much more than a light shell, a few GU's, and a pinch light, because then it wouldn't BE a "quick run".

 

[iagreewithjamie]

So, Jamie (and others), that begs the question - do you feel that the extra pack size and weight is ever a liability? This is often the argument given by the "light and fast" followers. I try and stay in the middle, but anecdotally, I've been mistaken for an overnighter, but never been called out for going too light.

Tim

It depends, Tim.

When I don't use any of the emergency equipment, I ponder its liabilities post-fact.
I'm certain if I actually ever needed any of that stuff in the bottom of my pack, I'd probably think every ounce was worth it.

The biggest hindrance I see is speed. The big pack definitely slows me down alot more... but I've also noticed that I tend to enjoy winter hikes much much more, most likely due to taking my time and enjoying all of the awesome non-summitty things to see that I tend to blow past in the summer.

And you know, you don't want to be that guy that gets billed by SAR for not having the right gear (forget I said that... I don't want to open that Pandora's box).