Wildcat pass required for hikers?

[Ed'n Lauky]

I just saw this report by Joe on NETC http://www.newenglandtrailconditions.com/nh/viewreport.php?entryid=6908 indicating that they were asked for a pass to be on the Polecat trail. Does anyone know if there has been a significant change in policy for this winter. I know in the past that when asking about hiking in the main building some have been told they couldn't do it, but this is the first time I've heard of the ski patrol issuing a warning about hiking on the trail.

 

[David Metsky]

There was a report about this last year as well. I assumed it was Ski Patrol letting people who were skinning up to go down the Wildcat Valley trail that they had to buy a Jackson XC pass, but it may not be the case. If patrol is asking people to buy a Wildcat ski pass (or access pass) then a call to the Wildcat desk is in order.

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

I just received the following E-mail:


I saw your VFTT post on Wildcat ski trail use. I'm not a VFTT member
so I thought I'd send this to you, getting your email address from a
New England Trail Conditions post.

Last year on Christmas Eve I was turned away from using the Polecat
trail without a pass. I later contacted the Forest Service and Susan
Matheison, who was in charge of the administration of the lease, told
me clearly that under the terms of the lease hikers are allowed to use
the trails at no cost, a pass is only required for those who are
hiking/skinning up and want to ski down, and then that permit must be
a reasonable amount, something like $15 to cover insurance. She
further said if the ski area tries to say otherwise she should be
contacted and given the facts and names. She even gave me her cell
phone number and told me to call her even if she was off work. That's
dedication.

Of course any hiker should stay out of the way of skiers and otherwise
respect normal ski operations. I will use the trail report of Just
Joe and contact Susan tomorrow to verify the matter, and assuming
there hasn't been any changes I would expect that she will contact the
operators, but individual hikers should also know their rights. This
isn't Cannon Mtn.

I'll let you know when I have been able to contact Susan to confirm.
Happy hiking.

 

[peakbagger]

Great Information, thanks for repeating it and thanks to the unknown reader of the trail conditions. I hope you offered to sponsor them as a member to VFTT?

I expect anyone on the mountain with skis may be questioned about a pass and given the turnover of staff on the mountain, this may not be communicated very well to new staff members.

This must be a real interesting issue with their insurance company. Most of the risk exposure is when someone is on the ski slopes and the owners are liable if anyone is hurt on their trails. Unlike a skier that releases some of the their liability when they purchase a ticket, a hiker/skiner doesnt.

 

[Red Oak]

It would be great if you could pay to hike sugarloaf that way.I do not mind paying to use a slope.BUT! ...I thought wildcat did not own the mountain they operate on but the national forest does?The forest service seems to have had the same message the last couple of years which is contrary to the way wildcat seems to want to handle things...When I did wildcat a couple of aprils ago,everyone was totally chill except ski patrol who were very nasty when I asked which peak was "D".

 

[forestgnome]

I'm an instructor and I'm working today. I'll ask to be sure, but I know there is a new policy, at least concerning how they deal with this.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I bet $10 the unknown reader is Rocket21 so sponsorship is probably not needed. I had the exact same story last year, the same conversation with Susan, etc. In the end, I came down Polecat w/o any hassle and with a few pleasant greetings from the ski patrol.

Tim

 

[MichaelJ]

Orthogonal to the issue discussed above regarding policy, you want to use extreme caution right now, preseason. With the snow guns going and the snow cats pushing the piles around to cover the trail, this is one time where in the past they have legitimately closed the trail to hikers for safety reasons.

 

[freighttrain48]

This must be a real interesting issue with their insurance company. Most of the risk exposure is when someone is on the ski slopes and the owners are liable if anyone is hurt on their trails. Unlike a skier that releases some of the their liability when they purchase a ticket, a hiker/skiner doesnt.

Why not issue hiking tickets for say like a dollar so Hikers and skinners would have the same release of Liability? Little off topic why are the rules at cannon so much different than wildcat arent they on USFS land?

 

[TDawg]

cannon.....arent they on USFS land?

State land. Remember? Franconia Notch STATE Park. Don't worry, it's early.

 

[freighttrain48]

State land. Remember? Franconia Notch STATE Park. Don't worry, it's early.

I know that the notch is all state land I didnt know if it was all the way up to the summit. I know that loon and Attitash is you go up the lifts you enter the White Mountain National forrest. Thanks for clarifiying TDawg

 

[TDawg]

Didn't mean to poke fun, I believe all Cannon's lifts and ski trails are on state property. Mittersill, as well after the land swap a year or two ago. And you're right about Loon & Attitrash.

Back to your idea freighttrain, I would pay a dollar to hike Wildcat's Polecat with no hassle. But how would they charge people descending? Tough to enforce too, probably.

But then again, if it is in my right I would also enjoy not paying a dollar and telling anyone giving me trouble where to go. (In a respectful way, of course. )

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Last year I was told they had a hiking pass for $7 for the liability release. They also had orange signs on grade stakes around the lift saying "no trail access without a pass".

Of course, many people go to both A & D and come down Polecat which makes it hard for them to say anything since you're already down. Plus you can just walk through the woods to the "C" lot at the final left turn on Polecat to the lift.

But yeah, it's still early in the year, they can close trails for safety (supposedly, they are to provide alternatives), and not everyone is singing the same tune yet.

Tim

 

[Fisher Cat]

Lest we forget, Wildcat now has new owners. Gone are the days of private ownership, which was a bit more friendly and hospitable. New ownership often means new policies.

 

[Quietman]

The new owner is PEAK resorts, who also owns Attitash, Crotched, Mt Snow, in addition to areas in PA, OH and MO. I am also interested to see what the new owners policy is.

 

[TCD]

/In defense of Ski Patrol here, as a Patroller (not Wildcat)/

Sounds like the mountain management and the Forest Service need to get policies aligned. But in the meantime, the polite thing to do is to ask management (as was described in the OP). If they say "no," then it's "no" for now, at least until the FS can straighten things out.

Ski Patrol has many higher priorites, such as assessing conditions, marking hazards, and treating and transporting injured skiers. They are not going to spend a lot of time communicating a lot of detail about hiker policy; it's way down on the list. For a working Patroller, hiker traffic is basically an annoying distraction. (Imagine an ambulance crew working an accident, and then they see a guy on a bicycle riding the wrong way on a one way street.)

So please don't come down on Patrollers. They're trying to enforce a policy that does not sound like it's well defined, probably has not been well communicated, and is way down on their priority list.

Thanks.

(And, if you do get permission, please keep to the edge of the trails on the way up, watch for skiers and other hazards, and do not go into areas marked "closed" for your safety.)

 

[Fisher Cat]

I worked as an instructor at Cannon and Patrol and instructor at Bretton Woods, granted this was mid-late 80's and early 90's. Though that was some time ago, it was still common to encounter snowshoers and a few Nordic skiers heading uphill and using the trails. Back then the unofficial policy was just to remind them of their own safety and remain on skier's right when ascending and skier's left when descending. Not sure for the reasons for that outside of a sense of uniform guidelines.

Seems like a long time ago (geez, what an old fart)

 

[Mike P.]

If you can take the Franconia Notch park map at face value, the tram, top of the ski area & the KRT are in the state park. When you look south of Cannon & also East of the Parkway, trails that ascend to the Kinsmans, Lafayette & Little Haystack all end on the map with a "to ..." which very likely is in the vicinity of where the national forest starts & the state park ends.

I think the Wildcat owners also own a resort in PA where the AT crosses the top, I was in that area a couple of April's ago & did a short hike there. Granted not much AT traffic in April in PA unless you are at a place with a great view like The Pinnacle.

They & we'll figure it out, after all, how many years do we go through the "where at Base Station can hiker's park?" thread?


Red Oak, is asking which peak is D like asking for directions????? Isn't that the next installment of the Miller Lite Commercials?

 

[MichaelJ]

FYI, this is the second ski season since Peak Resorts took ownership of Wildcat. I don't recall anything noteworthy happening last winter.

 

[una_dogger]

FYI, this is the second ski season since Peak Resorts took ownership of Wildcat. I don't recall anything noteworthy happening last winter.

I had no
Issues the few times I hiked Polecat last winter. Ski patrol was always friendly.