Wildcat Winter Rules - Background and Discussion

[Ed'n Lauky]

I'll add a quick PS to my last post to say that I would think that Wild Cat would want to encourage hikers to purchase online. It would in the long run mean less hassle for them.

 

[Tom Rankin]

What will be interesting is if you arrive at the top of D-peak without the advance purchase and a statement of "my only ride is in the C-lot below."

Unless it was a really crappy day, they *could* tell them to hike over Wildcat E, (assuming that trail is broken out), and out to the road, and then to stick out their thumb, or road-walk.

 

[RoySwkr]

Part 2
I also mentioned the Mt Tecumseh Ski area that appears to have relocated an existing hiking trail at least twice in its history to reduce skier/hiker conflicts. There does not appear to be any interest on the USFS or Wildcat ski area's part in pursuing a designated but segregated hiking route as two exist. My observation is that any such route in the ski area would rapidly become a bootleg ski trail.

My idea was to run the trail to the C/D col, which would be more convenient for hikers and less likely to be used for skiing.

While the ski area could easily afford to pay for a new trail with the sweetheart deal they're getting on royalties, they are unlikely to do so as long as the FS lets them manage the ski trails as they please. Since FS employee evaluations are based partly on how well they get along with contractors they manage, this is unlikely to change.

There is really no advocacy group for hikers in NH what with the AMC more interested in huts, FS contracts, and environmental activism.

If a hikers needs to go down the ski trail without a pass due to an "emergency" it will be sorted out by the ski area. If the hiker just wants to go down they will need a pass or they can be prosecuted for theft of services at the ski areas discretion.

Under the previous management, downhill trips on the lift were free in winter and some hikers intentionally took advantage of this - not everybody is working on an AMC patch Anybody know if this is still in effect as if so that would seem to cover emergencies.

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

Under the previous management, downhill trips on the lift were free in winter and some hikers intentionally took advantage of this - not everybody is working on an AMC patch Anybody know if this is still in effect as if so that would seem to cover emergencies.

That's interesting. I was not aware of that and the possibility was never mentioned at the meeting. I can imagine the somewhat humorous scenario where a Wild Cat official says: "If you don't have a ticket to hike down you'll have to ride." "But I can't ride down or my hike won't count." "Well you should have thought of that before you got yourself out here."

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Signage at 19 mile brook and Rt 16 were discussed but given that would be USFS land it may be difficult to allow.

Isn't that what those information kiosks are for? They have no problem putting up laminated cards about the demise of the Pemi bridge...

I am looking to make sure that the ski area does everything they can to avoid hiker conflicts. Readers of this thread have no excuse, but people who have maybe saved some notes from last season or whatever may be in for a surprise, unless there are signs in the C lot (or all lots) or something which tells a person they must pay $10 to come down. Last year, down was effectively free and so you were never faced with finding an alternative, emergency or no emergency.

Tim

 

[MichaelJ]

Ed, you beat me to it! Yup, the threat of having the hike not count is probably the one most would take serious. That's both humorous and sad at the same time.

 

[SherpaTom]

Sad & humorous...yes, we hikers are a sad but funny group. Hopefully the online payment will be something that can be done. Hell, what is $10 for piece of mind, knowing they won't shuttle you down in a Snow Cat only to force you to return later in the winter to get your credit....Sad, but no so funny.

.

 

[teleskier]

First, thanks to all for this very informative thread, especially so for someone like myself who's branching out from the Adirondacks to the Whites and has a lot to learn about the area. It raises an obvious question, though, for me, at least - there are two other 4,000 footers with ski areas on them, Cannon and Tecumseh. Do they also have formal policies in place on hiker access, downhill/uphill travel, etc? Not trying to divert the original thread but it seemed an obvious place to ask.

 

[Tom Rankin]

First, thanks to all for this very informative thread, especially so for someone like myself who's branching out from the Adirondacks to the Whites and has a lot to learn about the area. It raises an obvious question, though, for me, at least - there are two other 4,000 footers with ski areas on them, Cannon and Tecumseh. Do they also have formal policies in place on hiker access, downhill/uphill travel, etc? Not trying to divert the original thread but it seemed an obvious place to ask.

Both of these places have trails that avoid the ski slopes, and parking is free. If you are asking about going up/down the slopes, I'm not sure. Personally, I would just return the way I came.

 

[SherpaTom]

No issues at all with Tecumseh. As far as cannon, you can hike around the ski trail and come out right at the skilift with no issues. last time I was there, probably 5 years ago, there were snowboarders and skiers coming down Kinsmenn Ridge Trail which was not the most pleasant experience. We then took a shortcut and hiked up the left side of the ski trail (not really advisable). We were not bothered by the ski patrol as long as we stayed close to the woods. However, traveling up kinsman Ridge, you really should take a left to Cannon Cliffs and then ascend from there.

 

[MichaelJ]

Cannon has a formal policy of no hiking on the ski trails. Given that there are three different routes up it (Kinsman Notch Trail from two different sides, and Hi-Cannon Trail) it's not a big deal. Note that KRT from the north does switchback through a ski glade and caution is required if that's open.

Waterville Valley (Tecumseh) I don't know, but the trail parallels the ski area and is a fine route. There are side trails out to the ski trails for viewpoints, too. In the summer the route from Tripoli Road is said to be very nice (I haven't done it) but that road is closed in the winter.

IMHO hiking on ski trails sucks. I did the descent down Polecat in the spring (well past closure) and it was decent, but I would not have personally enjoyed ascending it, I just don't find it fun, especially on a hot sunny day. I did Sugarloaf by the ski trails on an August day and it was miserable with no shade and lots of reflected heat off the ground. Also, intermediate (blue) and advanced (black) trails are uncomfortably steep for hiking for my legs.

 

[SherpaTom]

Are they still skiing/snowboarding down Kinsman Ridge?

 

[bikehikeskifish]

The core issue is that the Wildcat Ridge Trail is rather steep and dangerous even on a dry day without snow or ice. To avoid this in winter, one must either go out-and-back from 19MBT or come down the Polecat.

Tecumseh - I don't believe they really care, but the trail from the ski area is a perfectly good alternative.

Cannon - NO HIKING on ski trails. PERIOD. They are adamant about this and enforce it. Year round, in fact. Where the Kinsman Glade overlaps the Kinsman Ridge Trail, and when the former is open, then you do have to watch out for skiers/boarders.

Tim

 

[David Metsky]

Are they still skiing/snowboarding down Kinsman Ridge?

Some people still do, to access some fairly remote backcountry skiing. Many hiking trails in the Whites will have occasional skier traffic.

 

[teleskier]

IMHO hiking on ski trails sucks.

Oh, I agree. What I'd like to do is skin up the hiking trails, but ski down the groomers!

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

No issues at all with Tecumseh. As far as cannon, you can hike around the ski trail and come out right at the skilift with no issues. last time I was there, probably 5 years ago, there were snowboarders and skiers coming down Kinsmenn Ridge Trail which was not the most pleasant experience. We then took a shortcut and hiked up the left side of the ski trail (not really advisable). We were not bothered by the ski patrol as long as we stayed close to the woods. However, traveling up kinsman Ridge, you really should take a left to Cannon Cliffs and then ascend from there.

At the meeting there was a representative there from the hiking community who has a close contact with Tecumseh. It was mentioned that there will soon be a meeting concerning Tecumseh. Tecumseh does have a separate hiking trail, but for those skiers who want to skin up and ski down there may be some restrictions coming.

Also I was up on Cannon early this summer and in talking to another hiker she told me that when she asked about taking that very shortcut you mentioned the management told her there would be a hefty fine if she was caught doing it, so....I would be careful about suggesting to folks to go that way, right now.

However, it was also mentioned at the meeting that the Cannon policy is going to change with regard to hiking on the trails in the summer. I don't know when, but probably not until next summer. I know there is one person who could answer these questions in more detail but I guess we leave it up to him to enter in.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

The core issue is that the Wildcat Ridge Trail is rather steep and dangerous even on a dry day without snow or ice. To avoid this in winter, one must either go out-and-back from 19MBT or come down the Polecat.

About 6 weeks ago I did this trail via Lost Pond/Pinkham Notch side with an old friend. I'd just done 19MBT/Polecat a couple of weeks earlier, but hadn't done this trail in many years. As we climbed past one particularly steep/narrow/ledgy point, he told the story of how he'd descended it in winter. It was covered in ice, sloping towards a drop-off a few hundred feet. He and his partner were too tired to turn around, and chanced it. Fortunately, neither fell as they didn't have a rope.

So ... if anyone is considering this trail in winter, in addition to crampons - bring a rope.

Personally, I'd never attempt it in winter. But, YMMV.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I have a suspicion that out-and-back from 19MBT (12.8 miles/4350') will become a more-popular option for winter 2012-13. Or, people can do as I did last winter and go out-and-back from the C lot via Polecat for $10. The risk is in the timing of your arrival and descent from the ski area D-E col conflicting with the rules. You can be sure that Polecat will be "broken out", and the return from A should be easier going, but I can imagine conditions where soloing might exceed the legal time range permitting by Wildcat's usage policy.

Hence we keep coming back to the fact that the operating hours window might not be long enough, even if allowed to continue up to sunset, if departure time must be after 7:30am.

Tim

 

[MichaelJ]

For what it's worth, the time window's plenty if you just want to tag D, since A is easily accessible from Carter Notch via 19 Mile Brook. My suspicion is that will become more popular and the ridge will be less traversed. Spend Saturday doing A, overnight somewhere, grab D Sunday morning and be home for football.

(this post assumes the mindset of the peakbagger who is solely interested in tagging the peak and less interested in the overall hiking experience)

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

For what it's worth, the time window's plenty if you just want to tag D, since A is easily accessible from Carter Notch via 19 Mile Brook. My suspicion is that will become more popular and the ridge will be less traversed. Spend Saturday doing A, overnight somewhere, grab D Sunday morning and be home for football.

(this post assumes the mindset of the peakbagger who is solely interested in tagging the peak and less interested in the overall hiking experience)

Unless you have a dog, then... plan on the long walk.