Winter Camping Questions

[DougPaul]

I've noticed that when I hike or paddle really hard, even though I am hydrating as much as I think i should, I don't have to pee much during the day. I most notice it during the 90 mile canoe race when I am really puting out all day long I hardly pee at all, though I am drinking a lot. But when I get to the campsite and finally relax, I have to go a couple of times an hour all evening.

My personal experience is that I generally produce urine fairly steadily if I am drinking enough.

What are you drinking and eating? If you are taking in too much salt, then you may be retaining water. If you are drinking electrolyte, then diluting it might help. As might lower salt food.

FWIW, I know some endurance athletes drink half-strength electrolyte. Another approach is two bottles--one of pure water, one of electrolyte.

Doug

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I like half-strength Gatorade for most endurance activities. As I am fond of my Camelbak while hiking (the "input" bladder), and would only fill it with water, I tend to carry along a full-strength Gatorade to consume when stopped. The net-net is still a reduced-strength electrolyte. I also tend to add more salt to my diet when I'm training hard and/or sweating a lot. The water bottles on my bike will have dilluted Gatorade (or at least one of them will.)

I've had good experiences with other products (Smart Fuel in particular), but they are more expensive and targeted more at performance and recovery. Gatorade has served me just fine in my recreational endeavors (i.e., hiking, non-racing cycling, ...)

Tim

 

[Nessmuk]

My personal experience is that I generally produce urine fairly steadily if I am drinking enough.

What are you drinking and eating? If you are taking in too much salt, then you may be retaining water. If you are drinking electrolyte, then diluting it might help. As might lower salt food.

FWIW, I know some endurance athletes drink half-strength electrolyte. Another approach is two bottles--one of pure water, one of electrolyte.

Doug

During the (3 day) 90 mile canoe race I suck on a gallon of 50% gatorade/water mixture for about 2/3 of the day, then pure water to finish the last couple of hours. This has worked for me for the past 8 years of racing. It is necessary to lightly snack quite regularly to avoid "bonking", getting behind the energy power curve. I snack on things like snickers, energy bars, nuts, fig bars, and bananas. If I include dried fruit I make sure to driink extra with it.

My long duration hikes tend to be strenuous cross country bushwhacks. I don't use the gatorade then, but depending on how hard I am working I do drink 2 to several nalgene bottles of water and snack as needed between breakfast and dinner to keep me going. I might pee a couple of times during the day and I check for color. But when I finally relax from the heavy work at the end of the day, I get the same effect as when racing, I pee clear a lot and often, so it doesn't appear that I am at all dehydrated. It doesn't really trouble me as having to pee when racing in a canoe is not something one wants to do. But it is a bother waking up more than a couple of times at night though. I just wonder if others experience this phenomenon.

 

[DougPaul]

During the (3 day) 90 mile canoe race I suck on a gallon of 50% gatorade/water mixture for about 2/3 of the day, then pure water to finish the last couple of hours. This has worked for me for the past 8 years of racing. It is necessary to lightly snack quite regularly to avoid "bonking", getting behind the energy power curve. I snack on things like snickers, energy bars, nuts, fig bars, and bananas. If I include dried fruit I make sure to driink extra with it.

My long duration hikes tend to be strenuous cross country bushwhacks. I don't use the gatorade then, but depending on how hard I am working I do drink 2 to several nalgene bottles of water and snack as needed between breakfast and dinner to keep me going. I might pee a couple of times during the day and I check for color. But when I finally relax from the heavy work at the end of the day, I get the same effect as when racing, I pee clear a lot and often, so it doesn't appear that I am at all dehydrated. It doesn't really trouble me as having to pee when racing in a canoe is not something one wants to do. But it is a bother waking up more than a couple of times at night though. I just wonder if others experience this phenomenon.

Sounds reasonable to me, but different people respond differently. I, for instance, seem to lose salt in my sweat. I'm OK the first day, but may become dehydrated the second day because I piss too much water out. Sufficient electrolyte drink and/or salty food the first (and every exercse day with heavy sweating) fixes the problem for me.

I suppose you could experiment with different amounts of total salt intake, if you so desire. But the bottom line is that what you are doing now works, except for the night nuisance.

Of course there could be something else going on that none of use amateurs knows anything about...

Disclaimer: I'm certainly not an expert on exercise physiology.

Doug

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Took a quick look in the usual references, couldn't find this info. I think I got it from my winter school or an outdoors medicine course taught by the medical department of my college, both ~1975.

Just remember. That was dealing with humnas V9.3. We're up to 10.0.1 now.

FWIW, I know some endurance athletes drink half-strength electrolyte. Another approach is two bottles--one of pure water, one of electrolyte.

Half strength, of even 1 for 1 is too much. I would say 1/3 electrolite to 2/3 water. At least for something long.

just wonder if others experience this phenomenon.

Similar. For me, the endurance is XC skiing 50-60 miles in a day. Pretty much non-stop for 12-14 hours. I'll survive on water, clementines, and chocolote. Hardly pee at all for the day.

As an odd counter-perspective is when I cycle 200 miles in a day. A stop at a burger king for fries and a Whopper & a root beer add to my nuts chocolate, gatorade & water. I pee much more..... Must be the Whopper.

 

[Neil]

I pee much more..... Must be the Whopper.

Which whopper? The one in your gut or the one in your hand?

This thread has woefully drifted so far away from winter camping that if it goes any further I'm going to put on my own little mod hat.

To get back on topic. Besides depriving ourselves of water on those so-cold central Canadian winter trips we used to knock back one pound of meat each before turning in. We cooked it over the coals on a grill. Probably a 2500 calorie meal. The cleaving of a peptide bond has a negative delta G so we were hitting the sack with chewed up heaters in our guts. Try it, it really, really works!

The next subject of discussion should be whether it is best to pipe one's flatulence out of the top or the bottom of the sleeping bag.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

The next subject of discussion should be whether it is best to pipe one's flatulence out of the top or the bottom of the sleeping bag.

With or with a VBL in the sleeping bag?

For those not familiar with VBLs... Di you realize that they hold a who night's fart=gas? And when you get up, the aroma is let loose.

Yes, those things keep you warm, but at what cost?

Which leads me to the logical next question. If you have a VBL for your sleeping bag, what should you have for supper?

 

[dvbl]

Excuse me, waiter .... check, please.

 

[Fen]

I wrap duct tape around the Nalgene designated for "pee bottle" duty. That way,even in the dark,there's no mistaking it! I use mine while I'm in the sleeping bag(very carefully!) Mrs KD uses it too! What a talented woman!

I am impressed with Mrs. KD's talent and, as someone with similar anatomy, have been wanting to ask for details. This thread has since gone into such varied territory that I no longer feel shy about asking my relatively tame question.

So, ladies, do you use the "director" devices or go freestyle? In the tent, or in the bag?

Mr. KD, does Mrs. KD also use the bottle in the bag? Do you share the same bottle? What a marriage!

 

[KayakDan]

I am impressed with Mrs. KD's talent and, as someone with similar anatomy, have been wanting to ask for details. This thread has since gone into such varied territory that I no longer feel shy about asking my relatively tame question.

So, ladies, do you use the "director" devices or go freestyle? In the tent, or in the bag?

Mr. KD, does Mrs. KD also use the bottle in the bag? Do you share the same bottle? What a marriage!

I think I'm going into dangerous territory..
She uses the Nalgene bottle only,and no,she can't use it while in the sleeping bag.And yes,we do share the same bottle. It's love..

She has one of the "director" devices,and got a real hoot out of standing next to me and writing her name in the snow. Ultimately,it was more of a nuisance than it was a help,so she stopped using it.

I think we've just about covered this as far as I'm goin'!

 

[DougPaul]

She has one of the "director" devices,and got a real hoot out of standing next to me and writing her name in the snow. Ultimately,it was more of a nuisance than it was a help,so she stopped using it.

I've heard similar comments. Remember that after using the device, you now have to clean it and store it in some way that urine doesn't get on other gear. And if urine remains on it bacteria will grow.

There used to be a website on such topics, but it now exists only on the internet archive: http://web.archive.org/web/20040213142128/http://www.restrooms.org/standing.html. Warning--it might be a bit graphic for some.

Doug