Winter Camping

[Brambor]

Yes, I also forgot to add that you can test all your winter camping gear behind your house (if you live in a house near the woods). Just set up your stuff and spend a night. In case it gets bad you can always go home a few steps away.

 

[dug]

You don't mention your boot choice: single vs. double. Day tripping I usually use singles. If it's too cold for them I stay home!

But overnight is a different game. Singles will freeze solid overnight unless you put them in your sleeping bag, which takes up a lot of room in the foot section. Doubles are warm, don't freeze, but are HEAVY to schlep miles in.

Like all things winter, it's a trade off: Comfort (& safety) vs. weight

cb

I wear VBLs in my single boots and they don't freeze....there's no moisture in them to freeze. I change into camp booties/mukluks at night.

The boots are cold when I put them on (vs. a double-boot where you wear the liner around at night), but they warm up pretty quickly. If real cold I'll put a small Nalgene bottle in there with hot water to warm them up.

The boots I wear are leather-lined, and I wear them with bare feet and just the BLs.

 

[jfb]

I've tried singles and doubles and although doubles are somewhat warmer, they are also heavier and less comfortable than my singles. My double liners are not warm enough to wear inside a tent or shelter by themselves. So I wear insulated booties around camp and put on my frozen single boots just before I resume hiking in the morning. The boots warm up before my toes get cold.

 

[DayTrip]

For those not aware, each year the AMC chapters run some highly acclaimed instructional programs, open to everyone, related to winter hiking and camping. Rich instructional content, takeaway materials and hands-on gear demos, as well as lots of hours in the company of experienced leaders whose brains are there for the picking. Volunteer-run, so the cost is nominal.

The two I’m most familiar with are the Boston Chapter’s Winter Hiking Program, taking place in Boston on 5 weeknights in November and early December, and the NH Chapter’s full-weekend Winter School sessions, which take place twice – once in late January, and again in late February at Cardigan Lodge in Alexandria, NH. You can opt for one or both of these weekends.

The weeknight format of the Boston program works well for folks who are in the extended Boston metro area. The NH chapter’s format works best for those who find it more convenient to pack all the content into a single weekend-long session.

Both chapters also offer a series of instructional winter hikes and backpacks that you can choose from to apply and cement the skills covered in the programs.

The programs aren’t posted yet, but will be over the coming month. If you’re interested, I encourage you to watch for them. When they do hit the web, pounce – they tend to fill up quickly. To check for them, go to outdoors.org on your computer or phone, click the “FIND EVENTS” tile, and then under “Activities:”, choose “Instruction (Skills)” and click the green SEARCH button. You can then quickly scroll through the offerings in chronological order.

If questions, feel free to PM me.

Alex

Thanks. That probably is worth checking into. The more I'm reading the more I'm realizing there are a lot of things to get up to speed on.

 

[DayTrip]

singles freeze but it doesn't take too long for them to warm up once you put them back on in the morning. In my book it wouldn't stop me from going.

So do you leave yours outside of your sleeping bag? I do have a tendency toward cold feet so this is probably going to be an issue I'll need to pay close attention to. I have a pair of VPL socks I wear on the colder Winter days for day hiking. I never really noticed how much moisture builds up in my boots outside the socks, if any. Something I'll have to monitor.

 

[peakbagger]

There is at least one custom maker of VBL socks that uses a custom material with nice fuzzy lining, its far more pleasant than a plastic bag. That said some folks never get used to VBLs and reportedly unless the feet have chance to dry overnight outside the VBLs there can be really nasty foot issue called trench foot that can occur.

That said I have used plastic bags many times on day hikes and when I was a kid that's what Mom made us do

 

[dave.m]

You and several others have referenced a single wall tent, using it for years and liking it. From what I've read it sounded like condensation would be a problem if temps weren't well below zero. Is the big benefit the weight savings? I just imagine a scenario where it's 30 degrees, a heavy wet snow/rain is falling and the moisture just comes right through the tent wall. Does it not work that way? What am I missing?

This is why I discuss tent in conjunction with the sleep system. I use NON-BREATHABLE tarp tents so condensation is a given. I can be controlled to some degree through ventilation but there are times when it will rain inside the tent. To compensate, I use a bivy sack over my bag.

A tarp tent/bivy combo may be weight competitive with a traditional bathtub tent. YMMV choice.

Main point is that you don't need a 4 season tent.

 

[jfb]

I do have a tendency toward cold feet so this is probably going to be an issue I'll need to pay close attention to. I have a pair of VPL socks I wear on the colder Winter days for day hiking. I never really noticed how much moisture builds up in my boots outside the socks, if any. Something I'll have to monitor.

If your feet start off cold in dry boots and don't warm up during the day, the problem might be insufficient insulation rather than moisture.

 

[sierra]

When I did most of my winter camping I was in plastic boots. One of the very few advantages of plastics is sleeping with your liner boots which don't take up much room. Now I hike in lasportiva Lhotse boots and given that they are to big to sleep with, would go with a VB sock for sure. Thankfully it's not an issue, because I don't backcountry camp in the winter.

 

[Brambor]

I'd say the general answer for me will be yes I leave them outside of the sleeping bag but I do utilize them for a pillow most of the time (unless I'm hammocking) and this does add a few degrees of warmth.

So do you leave yours outside of your sleeping bag? I do have a tendency toward cold feet so this is probably going to be an issue I'll need to pay close attention to. I have a pair of VPL socks I wear on the colder Winter days for day hiking. I never really noticed how much moisture builds up in my boots outside the socks, if any. Something I'll have to monitor.

 

[DayTrip]

If your feet start off cold in dry boots and don't warm up during the day, the problem might be insufficient insulation rather than moisture.

My feet don't generally start off cold and are rarely cold when I'm exerting myself, generally on the ascent. It's usually if I stop for too long or on the really cold days. I generally run colder than most in general so I'm usually the one guy you see wearing a fleece when everyone else is in t-shirts. I have a bad habit of not eating enough on Winter hikes. I've noticed even on hot Summer days if I go too long without food and water I will "cool down" and my breathing gets a little more labored. A little food and water and I'm fine. This Summer I've made it a point to stop at intervals and keep the tank "topped off" and it has made a huge difference. Need to continue with this habit into the colder months. I just generally don't feel like eating when it's cold and most of the foods I enjoy at other times of the year are either unappealing or difficult to eat when it's cold.

 

[jfb]

My feet don't generally start off cold and are rarely cold when I'm exerting myself, generally on the ascent. It's usually if I stop for too long or on the really cold days.

You may be using your boots right down to their limits. You may decide to add the cost of warmer boots to your winter camping budget.

 

[DayTrip]

You may be using your boots right down to their limits. You may decide to add the cost of warmer boots to your winter camping budget.

I considered that last year and investigated double boots. A lot of what I read though was that they run narrow and I have wide feet and finding even regular boots has always been an issue for me. I did however get La Sportiva trail runners about a month ago and the fit has been good so I think I need to look into double boots again. My current boots are inexpensive Keen boots that have been reasonably warm but more importantly they are super comfortable. They're a bit soft and on occasion they flex enough to shed my crampons but they were pretty good to me last year. They are insulated but I don't recall if they were 200g or 400g. More $$$ to commit too if I move forward with this whole idea.

 

[jfb]

Sierra Trading Post and Backcountry have some mountaineering boots at reasonable prices.

 

[dug]

If you want to "camp" vs. "mountaineer", you could consider Sorels or other felt-lined boots, which you may already have ( ? ). Definitely cumbersome as hell, but more than one trip I've gone in only a couple miles and set up camp, so they would be fine. Thinking of Three Ponds, East Pond, etc. which I know of people that have worn those.

At least while you are getting used to what to do, how to do, what to bring, etc. And, if you don't already have them, you can use them for snowblowing and then push it to the house budget. Anything to keep gear out of the camping budget makes everyone happy!!

 

[dave.m]

I use vapor barrier liners and insulated gaitors. I'll not go on a trip with lows forecast below -5F anymore. Just not enough margin of error. I've taken those boots to -15f but just not worth the effort and risk. For me.

 

[jfb]

You'll also need a pack that's big enough to carry all that new winter camping gear.

 

[sierra]

Just a thought, winter boots can give you sticker shock if you go with a good boot. Personally, boots is one area that I consider critical. Regardless of the type of boot you end up with IME in North Conway has a large selection of mountaineering boots downstairs on consignment. You just might score an expensive boot for a considerable savings and at the very least, you can see a variety of examples and even try a bunch on for fit reference. I was down there just a short time age and they had a few good Koflach plastics, while I don't care for plastics anymore, they are warm, you can sleep with the liners and your feet will never get wet in them. Not to mention, they take a crampon with ease.

 

[DayTrip]

If you want to "camp" vs. "mountaineer", you could consider Sorels or other felt-lined boots, which you may already have ( ? ). Definitely cumbersome as hell, but more than one trip I've gone in only a couple miles and set up camp, so they would be fine. Thinking of Three Ponds, East Pond, etc. which I know of people that have worn those.

At least while you are getting used to what to do, how to do, what to bring, etc. And, if you don't already have them, you can use them for snowblowing and then push it to the house budget. Anything to keep gear out of the camping budget makes everyone happy!!

I never hesitate to blow the toy budget when I can.

 

[DayTrip]

You'll also need a pack that's big enough to carry all that new winter camping gear.

I have that covered. When I first started Winter hiking I got a 90 L pack (partly because I was carrying way too much stuff, partly because I love the comfort of the heavy strap systems and partly because I can't stand having crap dangling all over the outside of the pack). I've since reduced the amount of gear and gone to a 65L pack I really love so one way or the other the pack is covered. I also made a pulk last year, although I did not get a chance to test it.