Winter technique: steepness and ice

[bryan]

My tip is regarding using trekking poles. (Get it? "tip"..."poles" )

When descending the steeps backwards -- where you're turned around facing the slope so that your 'shoes get good crampon bites -- I've sometimes found it useful to use my trekking poles almost like ice tools.

I collapse them as far as they will go and then choke down on them to where I'm holding them just above the snow baskets. This lets me stab the tips into the ice up near my waist/shoulders, giving a much more secure feeling than trying to effectively plant the tip of the pole 3' away, at a completely wrong angle.

James
current ice climber

good piece of advice. this has worked really well for me on a number of occasions while wearing both snowshoes and crampons.

bryan

 

[TCD]

I treasure my old hardcover copy of "Climbing Ice." About twenty years ago I took an ice course from American Alpine Institute. I had already been climbing waterfall ice for several years, but these guys taught me about lower angled ice, self arrest, chopping steps, crevasse rescue, etc. They used "Climbing Ice" as the textbook. It was regarded as "the Bible" back then, and it's still a great resource. If you can pick up a copy on Amazon, grab one.

TCD

 

[sierra]

Two points if I may, to me chopping steps is way to time consuming for the application you describe and keep in mind, if you are not wearing crampons, you can slip out of a chopped ice step very easilly. I think crampons are the way to go period, combined with a good snowshoe. MY Sherpa snowshoes have the optional binding that have 1 and a half inch crampon spikes so I have to change back and forth less. Make know mistake about it though, Ive made this point many times with budding mountaineers, there are conditions that warrant the time consuming changeover from crampons to snowshoes and the time that you dont feel like adapting and using the the right tool for the right application is the time you will get injured. Being a great mountaineer is about knowing all the techniques and the right time to apply each one. Althouge I own and agree Chounards book is great, I would think "Freedom of the Hills" is more appropiate for your situation. You can find old copies everywhere the techniques are still the same. my 3 cents.

 

[mirabela]

Step chopping can provide adequate safety, and not be all that slow either, in the right conditions.

Not trying to start an argument or anything. There are times when the crampons in your pack belong on your feet, too. I carry mine for a reason.

edited to add --

Ive made this point many times with budding mountaineers, there are conditions that warrant the time consuming changeover from crampons to snowshoes and the time that you dont feel like adapting and using the the right tool for the right application is the time you will get injured.

This bears repeating. I watched my buddy do a heart-stopping ragdoll down an ice chute on the Hotlum-Wintun ridge on Mt. Shasta because he did not want to put his crampons back on to cross a 20 foot section between two 2,000 foot glissades. He escaped major injury, but took a bruise to his hip the size of a watermelon. Witnessing this is one of those memories I wish I could forget.

 

[bcskier]

Warning this is a troll.

Be careful you don't get ticketed! In the Adirondacks snowshoes or skis are the only footwear allowed when the snow is over 6" deep.

 

[sierra]

I had a similiar experience on Torres peak in CO, ran into a group sitting on a steep slope trying to decide if they should crampon and ice axe up for a 60ft snowfield crossing or just run across, the rest of the slope was rock before and after. The runout was about 1500ft of hardpack into a deathly talus field. I didnt hesitate to drop my pack crampon up and french technique across while they still debated for some reason. Time to gear up and down 12 minutes or so, time to cross snowfield, 5 minutes, no brainer for me.

 

[John H Swanson]

Be careful you don't get ticketed! In the Adirondacks snowshoes or skis are the only footwear allowed when the snow is over 6" deep.

I believe it is 8" and only in the high peaks wilderness area.

So you can take the shoes off just after to cross out of the wilderness areav if you choose.

And to this point, even now, the snow on the ground next to the trail to Marcy Dam is only about 8" deep.

 

[LivesToHike]

My experiences, for what they're worth...

(1) I'll dig in with my snowshoes, to go up a hardpacked, steep ramp, or if there is sufficient trail width, try to zig-zag. Ditto the way down, except that I alternate between pushing down on my toes and kicking back on my heels to control my momentum, depending upon snow consistency, etc. I don't slide backwards on the uphill sections because my Atlas 1200 series snowshoes have lateral teeth in addition to the bear claws, and this tends to keep my planted foot in place as I move the opposite foot forward.

(2) Typically I switch to crampons, unless it's a very small area of ice flow.
I don't trust my snowshoes to pin me entirely, or more to the point, I find it more taxing to do it with snowshoes than crampons. I tend to walk duck-footed, toes splayed outward, and lean on the flat sections with as many points as possible for stability, and with front points on more vertical stuff, or zig-zag as before if the trail and ice conditions allow.

Frankly the hardest part for me is wearing snowshoes or crampons towards the end of the day, when I'm really tired, walking down off a trail, when one needs either of the forementioned, and stablicers or micro-spikes won't do. With snowshoes, I find myself skiing and on rare occasion, slightly out of control, because I took my attention off the task at hand for a nano-second. With crampons, the issue is to avoid front pointing one's self, or my personal favorite: snagging a gaiter or crampon strap on the opposite foot and a one point face plant for my fellow hikers to chortle about later on.

On a recent December warm-up trip down the relatively easy trail off Mt Tom/Field I misjudged a slope during a zig-zag with snowshoes. Not a split second later I was flailing on my side/back and then self-arresting with my hiking poles to avoid sliding all the way down a slope off the trail. One could argue that it might have been wiser to ditch the snowshoes on a fairly hardpacked trail at this point... ...but there was group think that snowshoes were needed on the whole trip.

Good luck with whatever you try...

--Mike

 

[jfb]

Two questions from an experienced summer hiker (Adk 46'er) but inexperienced winter hiker (Adk W4 (!)):

(1) How does one handle steep well-packed sections of a trail?

(2) Is there a typical technique to handle icy flows across trails?

1. Crampons.

2. Crampons.

A beginner ice climbing course would be a good idea. You'll be able to learn how to walk on ice with the safety of a belay.

 

[erugs]

I agree heartily with JFB. Especially about the point of taking a lesson or two, or going with experienced partners. While I didn't heed my own advice, I since have done so. There are good techniques and bad habits to learn about, and the reasons behind them.

That stands for crampons as well as ice axe use.

While it is true that I could have gotten by with more limited skills for most of the climbing and hiking I do around here, the lessons I had before tackling Rainier and Hood have paid multiple dividends many times over and I see that I was sometimes lucky in the years prior.

 

[kevinmac]

How to ice-axe self arrest

For those interested in self arrest, here is a great "how to video" from the British Mountaineering Council:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM3xLshmNnk

 

[werdigo49]

Great advice... thanks, everyone!

For the record, I went back for Rocky Peak Ridge a few days later, and discovered (as Tom implied) that dashing up the packed steep sections of trail was NOT necessary. My Tubbs Venture snowshoes do have claws under the heels, and by flat-footing it I was able to walk up at a modest pace and even pause to rest without significant backsliding. Walking up the ascents was MUCH less tiring than my jogging approach, and I reached the Ridge Trail's turn to RPR with plenty of energy left.

It would have been a great day to try the crampons. Several other hikers I met that day had used them on the steep descent off Giant toward RPR... but I (as Tom reports he often does) judged that swapping 'shoes for crampons wasn't worth the trouble. I should have, if only for the experience.

My 2010 wintertime in the 'daks is now over... looking forward to January 2011!