Women and hiking

[trailbiscuit]

The Great Equalizer

I've always found the trail to be the great equalizer. For me, class, gender, race all seem to wash away, because we're all just out enjoying (or struggling) along the trail. When I'm at a shelter or campsite, I find myself in conversations with all sorts of people regardless of the labels society places on them. For example, on the AT in VA in '05 we met a man at a shelter who looked rather unsavory and, quite frankly, I would have crossed to the other side of the street had I seen him coming my way. But after about 5 minutes chatting with him, we realized he was a really nice guy, and after a couple days seeing him on and off, we became friends with him. My point is: When you're in the mountains, you're part of a great community—one that I find much more welcoming and civilized than everyday society. There's a sense of "we're all in this together," and, therefore, we don't have time for labeling.

So, I say, hike solo, hike in a group, hike backwards, hike as a man, hike as a woman. Just hike.

That being said, I've done 95% of hiking with my wife. (Although it never stops the ladies from hitting on me.) So, I'm sure our experience is a little different. Of course, I'm a dude who hikes in a skirt...um, I mean kilt.

P.S. carole - The guy at Ragged who told you Gu's aren't diet food is an a$$. (And, I'm being too kind to him.)

 

[MonadnockVol]

It's a fine thread

Full disclosure: I know Solitary and "sponsored" her membership.

So Solitary you wrote:

The reason that I feel this is a relevant thread for VFTT is that the larger societal issues of how men and women interact also affects how we hike together.

In my opinion, this is a fine topic for this forum,, so don't worry. There have been cases not all that long ago of women raped and/or murdered on the A.T. and I know another woman who told me that she felt stalked on Monadnock. Plus if you look at all the responses, I think you tapped into a need to talk about the intersection of gender and hiking more generally. So again, and this is just my opinion, as long as we stick to the hiking aspects, any topic is appropriate for this board.

As a man, I think this is something that men should really take ownership on, and become leaders for change.

By the way, I know the AMC regularly lists singles hikes. I've never been on one (because I'm not single) but my understanding is that by going on such a hike you are declaring that you would be open to the possibility of meeting someone.

- MonadnockVol (aka Steve)

 

[MadRiver]

This past winter I hiked 17 winter peaks and if memory serves each hike had at least one woman in the group. For the past two years I’ve been hiking with people from RocksOnTop, which have a very large female membership. I can think of at least 7 women from that site that I consider very good friends. Interesting enough, there has never been a male vs. female mentality with respect to hiking, sharing duties on an overnight, taking a bio break or sharing a tent for that matter. I’ve even had several “pajama parties” at my house sans wife with no one batting an eye. We are all friends and our particular gender has never been an issue. Most of my friends outside of hiking are female, so it is natural from me to enjoy the company of women on and off the trail. Having been raised by all women, I have never quite understood the “Neanderthal” view that some men have of women who solo hike. I’ve never once found myself in a risky situation where I have said, “thank god I have my penis to save me.” Men need to get over themselves.

 

[Grayjay]

I started up Kearsarge North a few weeks ago, and there was a young woman getting on her snowshoes at the base. I started up the trail and stopped to put on my MICROspikes. She caught up, and we hiked together for a short while, and I tried to initiate a conversation. Then I asked if she wanted to go ahead, and she said no she would stay behind. That was the last I saw of her, she never hiked the mountain.
Was my presence too intimidating or suspicious for her? You are right, it is a whole different ball game for a woman to hike alone (or unattached) than it is a man.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

S... If you and I go on a multi-day backpack and we share a tent to save weight, what does that mean? And if on that backpack we see a "little bit more of each other" than we might normally see (because of changing clothes, washing up, etc.), what does that mean? If we come to a stream and you suggest skinny dipping and I accept what does that mean?

This is a good thread, Solitary - glad you started it.

I often hike with women, both attached and unattached, and about the only difference in our behaviors is that on bio-breaks we tend to give each other a bit more physical distance than if it's just guys. But, I've been in situations where that simply isn't possible, so turning my back discretely works too.

As an attached guy, I've shared many a bunk and motel room with both guys and gals, and no one has thought anything about it (I'm an attached, straight guy). But, I would like to comment specifically on one portion above, and my comments apply only to me, and may/not not apply to other guys: sharing a motel room to cut costs is one thing, but sharing a tent is another. Might be OK if it were a 3-person tent, but a 2-person is another story. But, I don't like to share a tent a guy either. Same thing applies to skinny dipping - we are human, after all. Unless you're looking for a sexual relationship, simply avoid the obvious temptations.

As for "seeing a bit more" - that wouldn't concern me so long as it's done in a functional rather than suggestive manner. After all, it's important that everyone attend to personal hygiene, not only for their own safety, but the safety of the group.

I think it would worth having a conversation about "acceptable" etiquette BEFORE a backpacking trip. Could avoid difficult/uncomfortable situations later.

Edit - and, no matter what guys may say, Billy Crystal got it right. Doesn't mean you act on it.

 

[sleeping bear]

This is a good thread. I spent a lot of time in the past two semesters of my masters program reading about females, stereotypes, and the outdoors. It is super interesting!

I would venture to say that most of the women on this board do not feel that there is a huge issue of women hiking, as it also seems to be the trend in the responses. However, think about your women friends who say "I wish I could do that" but will never go. The numbers of women who participate in outdoor activities are closest to those of men in bird watching. All other activities it's like 60/40, 70/30 or less- that includes paddling, hiking, camping, backpacking, skiing, and climbing (with climbing having the lowest percentage of female participants). If you want to sift through the info yourself- it came from the outdoor industry asociation . They've added quite a few reports since I visited the site last. They're all quite interesting.

And as for peeing in the woods- you'll have no more penis envy if you get yourself one of these .

 

[dentonfabrics]

Early on I recall another forum's trip leader asking me, "Do you hike to find a date or to lose weight?"

HikerAmiga,

Was this a GUY who said that to you? If so, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that he's still single. Man, what a dumb thing to say to a woman!

bob

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I have been married since before I started hiking seriously. (In general that might not mean I wouldn't be interested in seeking female companionship -- I'm not of course.) When I was single and cycling, I wouldn't shy away from conversations with women, but unless it clearly held a spark or something more than casual cycling banter, I would never presume that they were interested, nor would I be offended or push the issue if not. I.e., it would have to almost feel like a "mini date" for me to assume more.

But that's just me.

On the other hand, I've been assumed to be the bad guy just because I am a guy, which I understand, but it's not entirely fair. So don't be unhappy if someone expresses an interest, only if they don't respect your response. At the same time, I was brought up to be polite and hold doors (for both genders) and this has led to rebuffs from females who view it as demeaning in some way. Thus I am led to a state of confusion. So don't necessarily presume my motivation, please. (Then again, not being female, I haven't been there and can't fully appreciate it.)

A long time ago I was a naturist (nudist). So I've "seen a bit more" on many occasions, but it does not automatically lead to a sexual situation, nor even the presumption of one. That is entirely in the mindset of the two persons, regardless of clothing status. Of course to the more mature folks who have lived with someone, or have (or are) been married, this is understood.

Bill Crystal did have it right, but keep in mind that he amended things to say (and pardon the quote) "friends only if he doesn't want to nail her".

Tim

 

[HikerAmiga]

HikerAmiga,

Was this a GUY who said that to you? If so, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that he's still single. Man, what a dumb thing to say to a woman!

bob

Yes, it was a guy...and someone who claimed to have 30+ years mountaineering and leadership experience in the Whites too. I wasn't terribly offended but more amused than anything else at the mentality some people have. I noticed he liked to cater to women hikers and gave him some tips about his approach or antics which I thought were well received.

Yes, last I heard, he is still single.

 

[Chip]

I have heard from friends that the AMC group trips (hiking, kayaking, etc.) are often meet markets.

I always thought the expression was Meat Market. Meet Market is much less rude.

If you and I go on a multi-day backpack and we share a tent to save weight, what does that mean?

Nothing.

And if on that backpack we see a "little bit more of each other" than we might normally see (because of changing clothes, washing up, etc.), what does that mean?

Nothing, these things happen. Just make a decent effort to keep it private.

If we come to a stream and you suggest skinny dipping and I accept what does that mean?

Something, maybe. We may just crossed the line.

 

[carole]

FWIW, I (a male) have hiked out with an older gentleman from Franconia Ridge because he was getting tired and it was getting late. (We were both solo.) It was as much for his safety as anything else.

Turned out he also interesting and enjoyable to talk with on the way out.

Works both ways....

Doug

I have hiked for short or long distances with others I have met on the trail and almost always enjoyed it. And have also assisted in several instances where there was a need. But the point of my comment was the suggestion to hike out with me because he didn’t feel right leaving me out there alone was just that – that since I was a female, alone, he felt I needed assistance.

 

[carole]

Many women hikers who regularly climb one mountain ...will tell you that they experienced the hiking version of stalking.

I agree 100%

 

[Snowflea]

I agree w/Vegematic, esp. the first line of her post.

Most people are cool. I did have one guy take my photo on Webster Cliffs because his "wife would never believe a woman was hiking alone." Whatever dude...

When I was on the AT down South, the men I was hiking around DID, indeed, think about rape. Is everyone here too young to remember Deliverance?

 

[pudgy_groundhog]

Hmmmm ...... I haven't done (nor am I working on) any lists AND I've never hiked solo. I don't think any other VFTTer can say that.

What others have mentioned .... bathroom matters are the main difference for me. And hiking while pregnant.

Many women hikers who regularly climb one mountain ...will tell you that they experienced the hiking version of stalking.

Have to say I'm curious about this one ...

Interesting thread ...

 

[Woody]

I would have to say that the thing that I like about hiking with women is that the conversation is usually more interesting than hiking with guys. My biggest issue with the women that I have hiked with is trying to keep up with them. Maybe it's my conversation that they are trying to get away from!

 

[dr_wu002]

Some of my rules for hiking:

Hiking Solo and --

Meet up with a woman hiking alone: Say "hi" and move on; she probably doesn't want to talk to me, and if she does, move on anyway because she's probably weird and annoying.

Meet up with a man hiking alone: Say "hi" and move on; Be prepared to run or bushwhack or anything if he is overly chatty, clingy and annoying -- just get away!

Although with both genders, once or twice I've actually had an enjoyable hike with someone that I struck up a convo with by chance on the trail. Usually there is some sort of mutual interest. But my first inclination is flight. My second inclination is to attack. And if those fail, I'm generally more open to friendship.

Hiking With People --

Men? Women? For the most part all the same. Lots of fun to hike with a friend.

Bathroom Breaks --

C'mon. If you can't drop one in front of a friend they're not a real friend at all.

Hiking Single --

This actually happened to me for a little while and I kept the fact quiet or ambiguous. I find that once women find out that I'm single they're no longer interested in being my friend. Maybe it's that creepy, stalker vibe. And I didn't notice any heightened sexual attraction with the men that I hike with. Although one time I did temporarily blind Eric when he caught a glimpse of me lurking around the trailhead, nekkid. He got better in about a month. I learned to give warnings before my disrobing ritual.

-Dr. Wu

 

[hikrgrl]

My experiences as a hiker & backpacker:
My first backpacking trip was with AMC - I'm pretty sure everyone on it was at least 10 years older than me (I was 23). The next several were solo...and then I went on a very regulated, "all-womyn" backpacking trip in the Whites. We had a group song every morning and it was all (supposed to be) very Empowering I am pretty sure that I haven't backpacked with a partner/group since then. And "empower" is one of my least favorite words. **Note: I know that for some women on the trip, it was their very first time in the mountains and hiking/backpacking, and for them, it was an important step forward in their personal development. It just wasn't my style!

There are times that what I need most is a hike with just my dog for company. Often, my plans are ambitious...and I'm not always good about advance planning (I have been known to leave the final copy of my updated plans as the greeting on my cell phone).

As far as the monthly issue that girls have to deal with , my favorite solution is this - eliminates certain problems when long-distance cycling, too.

 

[Dugan]

As far as the monthly issue that girls have to deal with , my favorite solution is this - eliminates certain problems when long-distance cycling, too.

I learned about the Diva from one of Vegematic's posts a while back - I love it!

 

[carole]

Many women hikers who regularly climb one mountain ...will tell you that they experienced the hiking version of stalking....

Have to say I'm curious about this one ...

Interesting thread ...

Some are aware that I have a nice ‘playground’ near me that I frequent for my exercise which includes hiking, snowshoeing, trail running, bushwhacking and trail maintenance. It is also a very popular destination for all kinds of hikers – from beginners, to peakbaggers. So it is not unusual to hear my name being asked. I have met members from this board and lurkers alike. Some have become good friends. There are many other regulars out there who I often see and talk with along with those who make a couple visits a year. There are many other first time visitors that I have had nice conversations with and have exchanged email addresses and keep in touch. I have played tour guide more than once as well as ‘search and rescue’.

So it was not too surprising one day to greet an older man with his dog sitting by the side of the trail and him inquire if I was ‘Carole’. Rather than just agreeing I often say, “Why do you ask?” Turns out that he had been asking most solo women this for a while since we had had a conversation several months previous and he didn’t recall exactly what I looked like. As we talked I recalled our earlier conversation and his dog. After a bit I politely took my leave and we continued in opposite directions. Several days later I pulled up in the parking lot and there he was next to his car. I thought nothing of it and greeted him and started off on my hike. He quickly rushed to join me. Not wanting to be rude I walked along with him for awhile and found out that he had been looking for me on the trails and questioned my schedule. This I do not share. (I also make it clear to those I hike or talk with that I am a married women and happy as such.) After about 1/3 of the way up he was ready to turn back. He was expecting me to turn back with him but I graciously declined. Several more times he was in the parking lot when I arrived (though my time and days varied). I was not looking for someone to hike and chat with so would decline, but he was persistent to the point of a nuisance, so I had to almost rudely tell him, explaining that I came there for my exercise and quiet time and would not make plans to hike with him. I saw him only few more times, after great effort to widely vary my schedule, and have not seen him for a couple years now.

I never felt in any danger but stalking does not always involve danger, more often just unwelcome attention.

 

[vegematic]

Diva Cup used to offer a money-back guarantee but I believe they've discontinued that. Another company, the Keeper does still offer a 3-month (but not one day more) money-back return policy.

-vegematic