Winter Camping

[DayTrip]

I've been thinking that I'd like to start extending my camping season into the "off season" and try Winter camping. I'll need to upgrade/buy a lot of stuff so I have some general questions on what the key issues are. Any advice and/or book suggestions on the below questions would be appreciated.

1) How many campgrounds are actually open year round in the White Mountains? For my first season I'm planning on car camping and working out the bugs and potential blunders with the safety of my car and civilization nearby. The only campground I can recall being open is Hancock on the Kanc. Anyone have a favorite spot near Lincoln, Gorham or Twin Mountain areas? With the limited availability are they just as hard or harder to book without sufficient lead time like the Summer season? And also, can you hike to a closed seasonal site and camp there or is that illegal (i.e. could I hike up to Sugarloaf II off Rte 302 and set up camp there?).

2) Tents. Single vs Double Wall? I haven't researched in tremendous detail yet but it seems single wall is really more for the hardcore adventures where weight is an issue so I presume I want a double wall tent. Lot of tents are 20-25% off right now for various Labor Day sales so I'd like to take advantage if I can.

3) Water seems like probably the most significant issue with Winter camping. The only stove I own is a JetBoil Sumo which has an adjustable regulator that is advertised on their site as being able to be used well below zero (although less efficiently). I'm really clueless on stoves, types of fuels, etc so I could use a detailed discussion on the topic. Not sure if there are any good books or websites that address this topic in detail. I'm not even sure what type of fuel "JetBoil" fuel is.

4) What else would be top priority issues to have a handle on? I "don't know what I don't know" so if anyone can shed light on their first time Winter camping don'ts I'm sure that would be of great benefit.

Appreciate the info. Thanks.

 

[sierra]

I'm pretty sure you can walk in and camp at laffeyette place. Also I used to use Blackberry Crossing at the other end of the Kanc.

 

[iAmKrzys]

2) Tents. Single vs Double Wall? I haven't researched in tremendous detail yet but it seems single wall is really more for the hardcore adventures where weight is an issue so I presume I want a double wall tent. Lot of tents are 20-25% off right now for various Labor Day sales so I'd like to take advantage if I can.

I think you should take a look at Outdoor Gear Labs 4-season tent reviews: http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/4-Season-Tent-Reviews

I don't have any winter camping experience and so no valuable opinion to share, but I see Hilleberg tents mentioned in online forums.

 

[jfb]

1. I've camped at Barnes Field a few times in winter. However, I prefer driving to a trailhead in the morning and hiking a couple of hours before camping, either in a tent or shelter or cabin. The RMC facilities, Hermit Lake shelters and AMC huts are ideal winter destinations.

2. I have a double wall tent, although a single wall is probably easier to pitch. Whichever you choose, I'd go with a freestanding design. Staking a tent in winter can be challenging.

3. I have a white gas stove, but will recommend a canister stove for beginners. You have a few months to learn how to use it before winter gets here.

4. My top priority has always been staying warm at night, so buy a sleeping bag that's rated at -20F and a good sleeping pad or two. For car camping, you can always use a three season bag and bring a quilt or heavy blanket from home to put over the bag. A pair of insulated booties to wear inside a tent or cabin (or even in your sleeping bag) is very useful.

5. When it's time to pee, don't bother trying to wait until sunrise. Dress up, get out of the tent, walk around a bit to warm up and go back to bed. Winter nights are long and there's no rule that says your sleep has to be continuous.

6. I've found that I tend to cool off during the night, so usually add a layer after my pee break.

7. If you buy a winter bag, get one that's wide enough so you can change your underwear inside.

 

[dave.m]

I'll take this in small bites as time allows.

I concur with your approach of starting with car camping. Hancock on the Kank is an ideal first place, as it allows easy access to town and to Lincoln Woods/East Side trails which are great places to work out the kinks of winter day hikes.

I would encourage as much winter day hikes as you can to work out clothing and feet and modality (crampons, creepers, snowshoes, skis). The Franconia Brook Falls campsite on the East Side trail is an ideal first backcountry destination.

For books, I highly recommend Chris Townsend's "Backpacker's Handbook" for a good general review of equipment. There is an AMC book on winter camping but it tends more towards primitive techniques. Still worth the read.

More in a bit.

 

[dave.m]

Regarding tents, I think of tents in conjunction with my sleep system and emotional needs. My preference now is to use a large bivy sack big enough to accept 2 sleeping pads and my winter bag. For shelter, I prefer a floorless single wall tarp-tent, like the Megamid. Emotionally, I prefer being closer to the earth and I don't mind the fiddle factor involved with pitching a freestanding tent in the snow; a feat that requires burying dead fall anchors.

I'm not recommending this approach to you but mention it to make the point that any tent will work in New England if you are below treeline. The number one thing a tent does is to keep the air you've heated up by breathing near you and to stop the wind from cooling you off. All tents require that you shake them off during snow fall, so I don't see the need for a heavy winter bomb shelter.

My recommendation on tents is that you use what you have and spend the saved money on a warm down bag.

I also recommend reading up on tarp pitching techniques as even with a "free standing" tent, you'll generally need to bury dead fall branches as anchors. The trick is use a truckers hitch that loops around the buried dead fall and ties off to the tent. This allows you to disconnect the line and just pull it out of the snow, without needing to dig out anything.

Nice video on the technique here.
http://andrewskurka.com/2016/guyline-tension-system-backpacking-tents-tarps-hammocks/

 

[Raven]

I've been thinking that I'd like to start extending my camping season into the "off season" and try Winter camping. I'll need to upgrade/buy a lot of stuff so I have some general questions on what the key issues are. Any advice and/or book suggestions on the below questions would be appreciated.

1) How many campgrounds are actually open year round in the White Mountains? For my first season I'm planning on car camping and working out the bugs and potential blunders with the safety of my car and civilization nearby. The only campground I can recall being open is Hancock on the Kanc. Anyone have a favorite spot near Lincoln, Gorham or Twin Mountain areas? With the limited availability are they just as hard or harder to book without sufficient lead time like the Summer season? And also, can you hike to a closed seasonal site and camp there or is that illegal (i.e. could I hike up to Sugarloaf II off Rte 302 and set up camp there?).

2) Tents. Single vs Double Wall? I haven't researched in tremendous detail yet but it seems single wall is really more for the hardcore adventures where weight is an issue so I presume I want a double wall tent. Lot of tents are 20-25% off right now for various Labor Day sales so I'd like to take advantage if I can.

3) Water seems like probably the most significant issue with Winter camping. The only stove I own is a JetBoil Sumo which has an adjustable regulator that is advertised on their site as being able to be used well below zero (although less efficiently). I'm really clueless on stoves, types of fuels, etc so I could use a detailed discussion on the topic. Not sure if there are any good books or websites that address this topic in detail. I'm not even sure what type of fuel "JetBoil" fuel is.

4) What else would be top priority issues to have a handle on? I "don't know what I don't know" so if anyone can shed light on their first time Winter camping don'ts I'm sure that would be of great benefit.

Appreciate the info. Thanks.

I'm probably on four winters running without a bag night out, but that said, you could consider these things:

1. Car camping at Hancock is a great way to know what your needs are in safety. Many start this way. As far as Sugarloaf goes, I am guessing no luck on winter camping if closed. It would likely gat a few snowmobile campers in winter if it was okay to do it.

2. Tents: I have a double wall that I prefer not to carry. It's 10 pounds with all parts and fly. It's also bullet-proof, so it has its advantages, but you may want to consider leaving the tent at home. I have a thin winter bivy sack and a warm winter bag (-40). With a full length thermarest, it's a good combo in a shelter in winter and saves about 9.5 pounds over the tent. Test the idea like any other while car camping or at a shelter within a mile of the road so you can put on the headlamp and walk out if needed.

3. Water. Start with warm water and well insulated in sleeves or socks in your pack. Have a vacuum bottle of tea. Drink it up early as it's just going to get cold anyway and you get more easily dehydrated in winter with the dry air.

4. Priorities: It's a lot easier to stay warm than get warm. Warmth is your number one priority. Let's assume it's a normal winter day in the Whites: wicked cold. When you get to camp, you will be generating heat for a little while. Take advantage of this by layering up immediately and keeping all of that heat in. If you lose it and get chilled, it's tough to get back. The stove should be fired up pretty quickly after this. Pick your favorite hot drink and plan to drink lot of it at camp at the end of the day. Tea, cider, coffee, whatever. The stove should be running pretty soon after you get in to camp and keep the hot drinks going and get some food in you. If it's really cold, getting in your bag at that point while you hang out is not always a bad idea. You'll maintain your core heat this way, but keep an eye on this all the time. To be fair, I run a bit colder than average in winter.

Keep your fuel canister in your sleeping bag with you to keep it warm. If you want to fire up the stove on getting to camp, you may want to have the canister inside your coat for the last 30 minutes of hiking before camp - it makes it much easier to light.

Have fun with it.

 

[dave.m]

Regarding water, I usually draw mine from a stream. Caution is needed, as ice shelves can collapse, putting you in the drink. Undo and tie the straps of a ski pole to the lid of a Nalgene to fish out water. It's not entirely unreasonable to carry a hatchet to dig thru ice but that's only needed after a long deep freeze that kills all open water.

Rely on iodine to purify warmed up water. Or boil. Pumps freeze. Melting snow eats fuel and is last ditch method.

I carry 2 insulated bottle cozies. I carry one on my hip belt over my groin. Easy to stay hydrated. Bladders freeze up.

 

[dave.m]

Regarding stoves, my daughter is 19 and is involved in an outdoor program at her college. I bought her a Svea 123 for her birthday. Mine has run reliably for 30 years.

I strongly prefer white gas stoves for cold weather camping. I strongly dislike canisters in cold weather. The big disadvantage of a stove like the 123 is they demand that you practice to get competent with them. Make tea on it daily for a month at home and you will have a lifetime skill and a stove that will always light. In the winter, cut a round piece of thin plywood to form an insulating snow base. Prime the Svea win Mautz Fire Ribbon for easy, reliable priming.

If you don't want to master a white gas stove, consider the large Trangia stoves with the integrated windscreen and pot system. Alcohol is heavier than white gas on long trips but the Trangia is a super reliable and easy to use winter stove.

 

[Tom_Murphy]

My first overnight was in my back yard. Then I did car camping at Hancock. I hiked an out and back with all my gear in a pulk and then set up next to the car. Was amazed at how much snow and fuel it took to get water for supper and breakfast.

My next overnight was just west of Black Pond. Did that with a partner. Followed the broken out trail to Owls Head and then took a left off it when we felt we were far enough past Black Pond. I will never forget seeing a row of bobbing headlamps headed back to Lincoln Woods. They stopped to make sure we were ok, which was very kewl.

I have bailed on a trip or two. Wanted to do a 3 night solo via Shoal and Thoreau and bailed after the first night due to a forecasted overnight temps that was significantly lower than I had done before.

 

[Tom_Murphy]

I stay below treeline and avoid nights when a significant snow fall is expected. Because of that I am able to get away with a 3 season tent 2P tent as my solo tent (MH Lightwedge 2). I leave a gap at the door for ventilation. I have also used my hammock.

I use a SVEA 123R because I stumbled upon Dave's page years ago. I have a silencer cap which helps.

 

[DayTrip]

I think you should take a look at Outdoor Gear Labs 4-season tent reviews: http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/4-Season-Tent-Reviews

I don't have any winter camping experience and so no valuable opinion to share, but I see Hilleberg tents mentioned in online forums.

I have actually seen that. It was that article that prompted some of my questions. The Hilleberg tents do seem pretty impressive but are probably beyond my price range (despite my love of buying new toys). I believe it was in one of the reviews that I saw single wall tents being more likely to get condensation which seemed like it would probably be a bad thing in New England. I got the impression they were more for the extreme peaks where it is super dry and cold.

 

[DayTrip]

I'll take this in small bites as time allows.

I concur with your approach of starting with car camping. Hancock on the Kank is an ideal first place, as it allows easy access to town and to Lincoln Woods/East Side trails which are great places to work out the kinks of winter day hikes.

I would encourage as much winter day hikes as you can to work out clothing and feet and modality (crampons, creepers, snowshoes, skis). The Franconia Brook Falls campsite on the East Side trail is an ideal first backcountry destination.

For books, I highly recommend Chris Townsend's "Backpacker's Handbook" for a good general review of equipment. There is an AMC book on winter camping but it tends more towards primitive techniques. Still worth the read.

More in a bit.

I've been Winter hiking for a few years now and have my system pretty dialed in as it pertains to day hiking (layers, traction, etc). Hiking with the added weight, obtaining water, having a reliable stove, etc are things I'd like to learn. I've been day hiking 99% of my hikes the past 5 years but this year I hit a few spots where I had to camp (Baxter, Adirondacks) and the idea of waking up near the trail head vs driving 3-4 hours was pretty nice. I don't get the time to camp as much as I would like but I definitely want to do it more, and for more of the year.

That's a good suggestion on Franconia Brook. Nice easy walk and reasonably close to facilities if I had to bail out in the middle of the night.

 

[DayTrip]

Regarding stoves, my daughter is 19 and is involved in an outdoor program at her college. I bought her a Svea 123 for her birthday. Mine has run reliably for 30 years.

I strongly prefer white gas stoves for cold weather camping. I strongly dislike canisters in cold weather. The big disadvantage of a stove like the 123 is they demand that you practice to get competent with them. Make tea on it daily for a month at home and you will have a lifetime skill and a stove that will always light. In the winter, cut a round piece of thin plywood to form an insulating snow base. Prime the Svea win Mautz Fire Ribbon for easy, reliable priming.

If you don't want to master a white gas stove, consider the large Trangia stoves with the integrated windscreen and pot system. Alcohol is heavier than white gas on long trips but the Trangia is a super reliable and easy to use winter stove.

I'll check that out. I'd only be doing overnights so a little extra weight for a reliable fuel wouldn't be a big deal.

 

[DayTrip]

I stay below treeline and avoid nights when a significant snow fall is expected. Because of that I am able to get away with a 3 season tent 2P tent as my solo tent (MH Lightwedge 2). I leave a gap at the door for ventilation. I have also used my hammock.

I use a SVEA 123R because I stumbled upon Dave's page years ago. I have a silencer cap which helps.

I'm definitely just looking at late Fall/early Winter/late Spring conditions with favorable weather forecasts. The bucket list does have an above or near treeline overnight in the higher peaks but that is years off at best.

 

[peakbagger]

When people ask about winter camping my standard answer is "I have the skills and the equipment but not the motivation anymore" . Winter camping requires a lot of gear and unless acquired slowly via used sales and closeouts its a big layout. If car camping its manageable but its rare that a winter camper is carrying all their gear on their back as the weight and volume can rapidly exceed the capability of the hiker and the backpack to carry it. The compromise is using a sled to haul your gear and basecamp in the woods doing dayhikes from the basecamp. This is done frequently in whites and ADKs plus is pretty well required for Baxter (BSP huts do have wood stoves and fuel supplies). Once you have it down pat, the next issue is lack of daylight, 8 or 9 hours at best in mid winter means long nights. With the right group and unlimited firewood it can be fun but for many it can get boring. I used to go to the ADKs high peaks area in February with a group but once they banned winter campfires it lost my interest.

 

[DayTrip]

When people ask about winter camping my standard answer is "I have the skills and the equipment but not the motivation anymore" . Winter camping requires a lot of gear and unless acquired slowly via used sales and closeouts its a big layout. If car camping its manageable but its rare that a winter camper is carrying all their gear on their back as the weight and volume can rapidly exceed the capability of the hiker and the backpack to carry it. The compromise is using a sled to haul your gear and basecamp in the woods doing dayhikes from the basecamp. This is done frequently in whites and ADKs plus is pretty well required for Baxter (BSP huts do have wood stoves and fuel supplies). Once you have it down pat, the next issue is lack of daylight, 8 or 9 hours at best in mid winter means long nights. With the right group and unlimited firewood it can be fun but for many it can get boring. I used to go to the ADKs high peaks area in February with a group but once they banned winter campfires it lost my interest.

I did build a polk last year. (Which by the time I finished it I never got a chance to try it because snow conditions were so lousy last year). It certainly does look like a lot is involved and is likely why I have held off trying it. I would very likely be camping alone and it would be for practical purposes (cheap stay, break up the drive back and forth to CT, learn some additional skills, etc).

 

[jfb]

I have actually seen that. It was that article that prompted some of my questions. The Hilleberg tents do seem pretty impressive but are probably beyond my price range (despite my love of buying new toys). I believe it was in one of the reviews that I saw single wall tents being more likely to get condensation which seemed like it would probably be a bad thing in New England. I got the impression they were more for the extreme peaks where it is super dry and cold.

There are tents that would work for you at reasonable prices: https://www.rei.com/product/794283/rei-arete-asl-2-tent, http://www.sierratradingpost.com/fe...n-4-season~p~146ry/?filterString=tents~d~228/

 

[bikehikeskifish]

There are tents that would work for you at reasonable prices: https://www.rei.com/product/794283/rei-arete-asl-2-tent, http://www.sierratradingpost.com/fe...n-4-season~p~146ry/?filterString=tents~d~228/

I was just looking at the REI Arete ASL 2 yesterday. Pretty good reviews and not terribly expensive.

Tim

 

[DayTrip]

I was just looking at the REI Arete ASL 2 yesterday. Pretty good reviews and not terribly expensive.

Tim

That doesn't look bad. I own two Marmot tents (a 2P 3 season with a significant amount of mesh and a 6P for when the wife/friends comes along) and really like their stuff so I've been looking at some of their Winter models. I haven't seen their Winter tents in many reviews though. Most other reviews I've seen criticize their heavier weights not so much the quality. I've set aside about $500 for the tent and while I could go higher I really don't want to given how little use I'll likely get (probably 2-4 times a year).