Attendance plummets at Baxter...

[Kevin Rooney]

thuja -

I can relate to the incidents you describe and the overly paternalistic attitude of the park. About 5 years ago I was turned away at the gate on a beautiful, sunny, cloudless morning because 'the trails were wet' from a rainstorm the night before. It was ridiculous. To add insult to injury I'd driven 8 hours to get there.

I've been to Baxter many times, and try to avoid contact with the rangers there if at all possible. Their overbearing attitude detracts from the experience.

Perhaps after this thread is 'quiet' someone could send the Baxter manager a .pdf version of the comments here. There's a big difference between managing the park in the spirit of the founder, and having staff who treat visitors in a professional manner.

 

[el-bagr]

This thread is nominally about declining attendance rates at BSP and Acadia, and by extension other public lands and/or wild areas.

If anyone is going to be printing off this thread and sending it to the Baxter Park Authority, I want to make sure you don't leave off the opinions of people like Spencer and me who have had nothing but wonderful experiences with BSP rangers and staff. Typical example: on a trip two weeks ago around Trout Brook Farm, I had a great time chatting with the local ranger about shared friends, life in the park, recent wildlife sightings and fishing conditions. He was friendly, had local expertise, and was very generous. BSP rangers are people first, and rangers second -- sure, they have to do their jobs (and in my experience they do them well), but if you take time to be friendly, you can see that they're great folks.

I've never been turned away from the park. I've never been hassled by a ranger. I've never had to wait in line at 5 AM for a parking space. To me, BSP isn't about setting a date to hike Peak X or do objective Y. It's about getting into the woods and seeing what the woods have to offer, seeking experiences that are relatively unmediated by our fellow men.

 

[Stan]

I'm with el-bagr on those sentiments. That's really putting it all in perspective.

 

[Frodo]

There is no doubt that BSP rules and regulations are more strict than virtually any other State Park (or National Park) in this country, but if you want to visit the most spectacular place this side of the Rocky Mountains, you will have to learn to live with them...

I bet they are happy that attendance is down. Just a few years ago they were looking for ways to curb attendance (like closing the road to Roaring Brook).

I have camped there over 20 times in the past 18 years and I have no problem with all of the regs. I have never been turned away, yet I have driven up to the gates numerous times with no reservations accepting whatever they had available. The only time we were not allowed to hike was once in May when there was too much rotten snow, and once in winter when it was -30F with 60mph winds (definitely a "RED" day) They did allow us to climb Baxter Peak the following day when it was a balmy 0 and 20mph winds.

As for rangers, I have had nothing but awesome conversations with these fine people (some of the stories I have heard from the winter rangers have just been incredible!). Sure they have to enforce the rules (most of the time), but I have never, ever, had any issues with them (even when I was breaking the rules ). One time we were heading out of the park after camping a few nights there, and I stopped at the dumpster just before the Togue Pond Gatehouse to drop off a small bag of trash (illegally, the dumpster is reserved for rangers only). As I met the woman ranger to drop off my reservation ticket, she politely reminded me "with a smile", that what I just did was wrong and not to do it again...

I think the problem most people have with BSP is that they are use to going to non-regulated places and have a tough time adjusting...

 

[Woody]

I'm going up to Baxter on Friday for my first visit. I called yesterday on the off chance that there might be an opening at Chimney Pond or Roaring Brook and was politely laughed at. No harm in trying the lady agreed with me. I'll try again when we get up there.

Does anyone know if I can drive to another trailhead in the park if I am not camped at that trail head. I want to hike from Roaring Brook but I am willing to camp elsewhere in the park. If I have to, I'll camp outside of the park.

I'll post about my experiences when I get back.

Woody

 

[cushetunk]

Does anyone know if I can drive to another trailhead in the park if I am not camped at that trail head. I want to hike from Roaring Brook but I am willing to camp elsewhere in the park. If I have to, I'll camp outside of the park.

You can drive from one trailhead to another in the park, but you are considered a day use visitor. So you have to park in day use parking, and have to be there the same time as everyone else to secure a spot (i.e. 5 am or whatnot). I believe the rangers count cars in the morning as they pass the gatehouse, not as they arrive at Roaring Brook.

Considering that the tote road can (should?) be slow going, the drive from Katahdin Stream to Roaring Brook can take the better part of an hour.

If you're on the west side of the park, don't discount the Abol or Hunt trails. I'd much rather hike those than drive all the way across the park.

 

[Frodo]

Hello Woody48,

BSP requires that you either park at a particular lot as a day hiker or as a camper. Since you do not have reservations at Roaring Brook or Chimney Pond, you will not be allowed to park at the Roaring Brook Parking Lot as a camper, so... I suggest you head up on Fryday, stop in at the Katahdin General Store (it's on the outskirts of Millinocket, just before you leave town for BSP), and pick up a $5 camping permit to camp at the Sand Pits (not as bad as it sounds) on the outskirts of BSP (about 2 miles from the Touge Pond Gatehouse). This land is owned by the paper mills, which is why you need a camping permit. Cool place though!

From there you can get your vehicle in line at the Gatehouse at about 3-4am and are almost guaranteed a day pass to day hike from Roaring Brook (the earlier you get in line the better your odds for a day pass, which they hold a certain amout for on a daily basis). After your dayhike, you just drive back out of the park and camp at the Sand Pits (best spots are on your left about 100 yards past the painted boulder on your way IN), or keep going back to Millinocket and sleep in a motel.

If you are not able to get a day pass pass for Roaring Brook, you should have a backup option like Katahdin Stream, Abol Slide, or even the Marston TH (to climb something besides Katahdin)

If you really want to camp within the park, your pickins will be slim unless you luck out with a cancelation or are willing to camp somewhere that might not be accessable to Katahdin. I recommend you inquire once or twice a day to see if something opens up...

Good luck, and what ever you end up doing there is more than worth the drive...

 

[bill bowden]

BSP visitors and experience

A number of posters have expressed a more courteous version of the view "if you don't like it don't come" The point of the original article was that this was happening so that BSP visitors were down overall by about 20 % and that this reduction in visitors was leading to a loss of revenue and potentially shorter seasons at the park.

For the "forever wild" experience this may well be a desirable outcome, but at the same time, it might well be asked whether the current and past policies of the park truly reflect the governor's deeds of trust. I've camped at BSP several times and had wonderful experiences but, for example, have never been able to get a reservation at Roaring Brook or Chimney Pond even mailing in applications to be opened January 1.

Numerous posters have expressed critical views of the safety policies and staff interpretation of these policies while my own experiences with the staff have been pleasant.

I don't think I have a particular axe to grind with regard to BSP but it worthwhile asking whether policy changes consistent with governor's deeds of trust might be worth considering.

 

[skiguy]

Originally Posted by thuja
What I *do* have problems with is the silly paternalistic attitude of the Baxter management and the employees. Really, these people consistently overestimate the degree of difficulty, risk, danger, etc, associated with routes on the mountain, and try to dumb it all down as much as possible

But, I agree with this and have a comment about it:



When I was planning my weeklong trip I had a whole itinerary set up, with mileages between sites set to give myself nice ~15mi days - enough to cover most of the park and keep me hiking most of the day.

I call them and they tell me that I can't book any sites that are more than 10 miles apart from each other. Man, was I pissed.
I had to replan the whole week with <10 mile days, and now I was already seeing less than what I had planned on seeing and was spending hours sitting around at the campsite waiting for the sun to go down.

The other pieces of the reservation process I could overlook (whatever, it's the process, just go with it) but the 10-mile detail has always stuck in my mind as a thorn since that REALLY affected my time in the park unlike any jump-through-hoops reservation system would.
Also, when I was there I met this local hiker who told me that he had never had an issue or heard about this 10-mile restriction

Anyway, it was still an excellent trip and well worth the drive.

I can relate to this but policy is in place for a reason. The limitation of ten miles is in place to help regulate hiker traffic flow to designated campsites and to help assist Rangers in peoples whereabouts in the event of a SAR.
Yes Baxter is far away for most and has alot of R&R; but it is worth it if it is only for Preservation in it's own right. BSP is a gem and my sense is that many folks that are not Maine Residents, BSP is something that they experience later in their Hiking and Camping career. Many of the people that I have turned onto BSP have hiked in other areas with little or no regulations. Initially many of these folks are resistent to the perceived difficulties of using BSP and can develope a negative attitude. Once arriving in the Park this "negative attitude" is quickly dissipated once these folks see it for them selves and realize that there is a reasonable explanation for every rule.
As for the Rangers...I have had only Positive experiences. They need to be trained to engage with a wide variety of people and many times I am sure that some of these people are not always reasonable to deal with. Again I have only had POSITIVE experiences with BSP and it's Rangers; but of course I have always tried to meet those experiences with my own Positive Mental Attitude.

 

[bill bowden]

tongue firmly in cheek

So the concept is "Baxter forever free, visitors forever regimented?"

More seriously in intent, the drop at Acadia may well be more indicative of an overall decline in interest in the outdoors. I'd love to see any kind of semi-authoritative ideas on number of hikers, rock climbers, kayakers, etc. over the past 10 years.

 

[Sheomet]

It's hard enough to get to Baxter and to add the what thuja said about day hikers, is there really any "DAY" hikers in Baxt'a? It take me 7 hr to get there.

Like forestnome, I too think it's a good thing.

I go to school in Orono so it's just a short drive up 95 for me. I can definetly see how it's very difficult for anyone not living in Maine to do a dayhike in Baxter, heck even from southern Maine it's a haul up there.

 

[woodstrider]

Crowds on Baxter Summits

I was just up at Baxter State Park a week ago and at 11am I shared the summit of Katahdin with 20 people other people, and a conga line was seen making their way up the mountain from several directions. Other summits, as to be expected, were devoid of crowds: indeed of people in general. So, while attendence is down, the summits of "popular" peaks will still be crowded.

 

[sleeping bear]

If it makes anyone feel better, or worse , attendance at parks (state and national) here in MI has plummeted as well, severely. It is mainly being attributed to increased user fees and gas prices.

 

[miehoff]

A Correlation

I was in the ADK High Peaks talking with a summit steward a few weeks ago and we had a long discussion on how the attendance in the park has dropped significantly in the past few years. He felt as if it was the bear canister requirement and the "no fires" rule. I wonder if there is some sort of parallel between Baxter and the High Peaks that he did not mention.

Thanks to all, by the way, for the info on the High Peaks when I posted last. I had a great trip...a really great trip indeed.

 

[SherpaKroto]

What the hell are you all talking about?...Quit your whining. The park is so much more than Baxter Pk...BSP is the best backcountry experience in the northeast, bar none. The Park admin is doing something right...

spencer

You got that right! Anyone who wants to head to BSP CAN do it on a moments notice. You might get lucky and snag what you consider a primo spot (Chimney Pond), or you could get luckier adn discover the BEST of BSP in a spot you had never considered visiting before. I've been fortunate to see a fair amount of the Park, in large part to some of the members (Spencer, Frodo, GO led winter trips that I joined in on), and these opened my eyes to what BSP is all about. Once you get beyond Baxter Peak, you will see what BSP has to offer.

You want a great time up there? Wing it. Pick a few long weekends (or longer). When the weather looks good, call and take what is available. You will be rewarded.

 

[Gris]

Been all over the world and BSP is as good as it gets - SSSHHHHHH! Being as it is a state park, they can't just let folks kill themselves. Unfriendly staff? "Ranger girl, oh ranger girl..."

Percy wouldn't have like you, anyway...

LOL!