Camping in frigid weather?

[sardog1]

I think you might be looking for perfect solutions to something -- i.e. tent camping in bitter cold using only your body heat to manage temperature and moisture -- that is ridiculously imperfect.

In fact, I'm trying to think of examples where people routinely live in cold temperatures night after night in tents without any other source of heat and I'm drawing a blank.

Send a PM with your contact info and you can come watch some time.

If I'm not moving down the trail, cooking, or eating, I'm in the sleeping bag . . . and not cold. (Having a dog or two in the tent is a boon.)

 

[pks4000]

We BMTs dont have this problem anymore becaue we dont use tents.
We build an Igloo using the Ice Box form from Grand Shelters... Temp inside has been always 32-40 which as you know feels balmy when you just built the sucker in minus 10 temps. Usually it hovers around 37
INFO HERE:http://www.grandshelters.com/

But thats another solution
Great stuff here. Amazing minds we climbers have huh?

I always had the cold air problem but never solved it by breathing in my bag although I have wanted to.

I wear a balaclava and try to limit the exposure of my mouth and nose but that never works either

I think if you carry a sacrificial "bandanna" fleece that is porous, it may work , wrapped like an outlaw would around your node and mouth.
Maybe fleece will work in this application

 

[The Lisa]

As spider solo said, it is what polyester fill is trying to emulate...

Wet polyester bags are also colder than dry ones.

Doug

I have been fortunate to never endure wet polyester fill, then (fingers crossed). I read epic stories about mountaineers trapped for days in increasingly soggy sleeping bags (especially the days of early mountaineering) and I shudder.
Sleeping buried in the bag never affected me even at altitude although covering nose and/or mouth could become an issue on the next trip, you never know. The flexible snorkel for breathing sounds interesting! Hmmmm, I got an Avalung for Christmas, maybe that might work.......

 

[cushetunk]

(Having a dog or two in the tent is a boon.)

What part of "without any other source of heat" did I not make clear?

 

[DougPaul]

Mine are from Mountain Hardwear, a lot is being made of companies "welding" their fabrics together as opposed to stitching their fabrics, claiming the welding is less invasive than stitching hence the bag is more hydrophobic than if it were stitched .......

Welded seams may leak less than sewn, but if water vapor can get through the inner shell, but not the outer shell the fill will still become wet.

As I understand it, the modern shell fabrics are intended to resist liquid water but allow vapor through (ie waterproof breathable).

Doug

 

[paul ron]

Now this is a really perplexing problem I've been dealing with for a long time.

I've tried doing the tent to help manage ambient temperature but it's not enough when in siub zero climes.

I've thrown my fleece sweater over my head forming a small pocket, it seemed to work fine except it's almost imposable to keep it in place if you move the slightest bit.

I now use a balaclava, I've seewen up half the face to leave a smaller hole for breathing n that is also imposable because every turn makes it twist up over your face n gets wet n cold as the night wears on.

I've ben working on making a small tent from a bug net I've seen on sale that forms a small tent over the sleeper's head. It has 2 poles n a screen that I plan to replace with maybe a fleece n a vent up top.

I'm going to ask some brave people that have slept out this past week in -27°F weather and see what they did.

 

[DougPaul]

I'm going to ask some brave people that have slept out this past week in -27°F weather and see what they did.

Is -30F a number of years ago close enough?

* -40F down mummy bag ( stuck my nose out of the bag)
* wore a wool balaclava
* Might have worn my down jacket--don't remember.
* 1/2 inch thick full-length closed-cell pad
* In a tent
* changed to dry socks (and dried the damp ones in the bag)
* I generally wear my booties in the sack
* was using leather XC boots--brought into the bag so they wouldn't freeze
* Brought water bottle into bag.
* (Brought anything else that needed drying into the bag.)
* had a good dinner (fuel for the furnace)
Don't remember any problems.

Observations:
* Sounded like a cannon testing factory all night with the trees splitting open (with loud booms).
* Heavy nylon sounds like cellophane when you manipulate it.
* Somebody's white Ensolite pad became brittle and broke into many pieces.

We were also smart enough to eat breakfast in bed--water from our water bottles and Logan bread.

Doug

 

[Neil]

Hey Fish:
Re: winter camping at -40 (or whatever) and cold nose. Just ignore it.
Re: the filling. Have the tooth extracted, it'll look good.

Re: condensation: In very cold weather in NW Ontario and Manitoba we eventually quit using a tent and constructed crude lean-to's using a tent fly.

(-40 bags, a 100% waterproof liner and polypropylene "pajamas" worked for me. We tried quinzees for a while but they are a lot of wet work in any weather.

 

[Mongoose]

I have a long fleece balaclava that I roll up over my nose when it's cold, then I breath through the fleece. A long hat rolls down over my eyes and to my nose. Sometimes I lay a fleece or down jacket over the hood of my bag to cover my face. I try to avoid that though because condensation will build up in the fleece or down. This is all good to -20F which is the coldest I've been in.

I have a -20F Marmot sleeping bag and the inside of the hood is entirely made of gore dryloft. I can turn my head and breath inside the bag and the moisture won't immediately soak into the down. After a while the inside of the bag gets wet so then I'll turn my nose back out of the hood so the inside can dry out.

If you get fleece to breath through, make sure it's the light fluffy airy kind, and that it doesn't have windblock or anything in it that makes it heard to breath.

 

[J.Dub]

Sleeping in a balaclava also helps to keep hair grease and skin oils (which also reduce loft) out of the bag.

And another side benefit is that one's hair looks oh-so-attractive when you pull that balaclava off in the morning!

I've been doing something similar to The Lisa, as I hate the frozen nose feeling. However, I wasn't considering that my respiration was likely putting unnecessary (and unwanted) moisture into the bag. Thanks for the heads-up on that, Doug!

My winter trips have all been 1- or 2-nighters, so I never had to deal with frozen or less-well-insulating bags, but it's something I'll have to figger out, I guess.

 

[hikingfish]

Hi Neil!
The thing...worrying about my nose kept me from sleeping. Believe me, I tried to ignore it!

For others who have suggested a fleece or something of the sort, I have tried that option, however it usually hinders my breathing if the fleece is too thick or it becomes too wet and causes freezing on my nose.

Maybe I am looking for a miracle answer

I know I could be confortable in a snow shelter of some sort, however I'm more worried about how to safe my nose in cold weather should I spend the night in a tent. A couple of people wrote about breathing in their sleeping bags. I tend to never do this for 1 simple reason: You never know when a single night out will turn into a weekend out, or when a weekend will turn into a 3-4 day event...and the only thing (well, an important part of it anyways) keeping you alive is your sleeping bag.

Cheers all!

Fish

 

[Little Rickie]

I wear a double thick knit hat pulled down almost over my nose and a neck gaiter up over my chin. I pull my bags hood up tight and hide my head in my bag so just a little frost forms on the edge of the bags opening by morning, this way most of the moisture get vented into the tent. If my nose feels too cold I snugggle down a little more into the bag. I leave my tent unzipped some unless it's real windy.

 

[Little Rickie]

We tried quinzees for a while but they are a lot of wet work in any weather.

I agree. They are fun and warm but take a lot of time and effort to make.

and constructed crude lean-to's using a tent fly.

I've been thinking of a similar thing by modifying the snow cave, or use snow blocks, with a tarp. Snow to block the wind and provide some insulation while the tarp allows for the shelter to be a little larger and built faster with less energy (sweat).

I hope to get out early March and make a modified snow cave part way up Marcy for a night or two.

I may get out once with the Scouts before then and have a chance to give it a try then.

 

[jniehof]

I wear a double thick knit hat pulled down almost over my nose

I was about to suggest that, so now I'll second it

 

[adktyler]

I'm going to add one more suggestion. Have you ever tried using a bivy inside the tent? Maybe one of the simple, lightweight ones that will fully cover your head and face, yet has a wire of pole to keep the fabric off your face. It would be added weight, but it might be worth it. My roommate uses one, and loves it. He uses his inside a tent, and loves it. He zips his all the way up, and says there is some condensation on the inside, but breathing isn't a problem and the bivy keeps it all off his face. This is what he uses: http://www.rei.com/product/629255?c...-26E7-DD11-9B0F-0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA

Ever tried something like that?

 

[jfb]

Long ago I read a discussion about the sleeping bag breathing issue and the "solution" was to wear a respirator mask and run the tube out to an air to air heat exchanger built with the fabric that transfers heat as well as moisture from the outgoing to incoming air stream. Didnt ever see anthing come out of it but the concept was intruiging

Something like this?

 

[peakbagger]

Someone must have been listening to the conversation years ago . So who is going to volunteer to try it ?

 

[Hikes4fun]

As a side sleeper, I've found that if I bring my bag's hood up over my head, it creates a pocket of warmer air next to my face. I can't sleep w/ a balacava--a hat's bad enough..Once I get settled in it works pretty good.

 

[Chip]

I'm going to add one more suggestion. Have you ever tried using a bivy inside the tent?

Not a full bivy but I have an old north face bivy sack/bag cover, breathable on top. I've pulled that up over my face a couple times.

Disclaimer: To the best of my knowledge the coldest I've camped in was about -20, might have been colder, BUT...these days if I know there's a good chance of temps much below -10, I'll probably change plans.

 

[Jasper]

My 2 Cents

The balaclava with a fleece head band brought down to cover the nose. Works, I promise.

If you get a chance, view the DVD 'Winter Walk 2003 to Ungava Bay' produced by Rollin Thurlow of Maine. Great talk through for sleeping in the cold. Also, very funny.