Cliff Mt

[big_t_storm]

Why does Alain (Pin Pin) have to do all the work? That's part of the Challenge of the Winter 46, to find the spruce traps, snowshoe in deep snow, finding your own way. I never depended on Alain to do all the work for me. We went out and did it ourselves.

I agree. Some of the best memories of my winter 46 are the peaks I did't get. They tend to make the best stories in your old age.

Thats why I don't understand why people make suggestions for the winter 46 ( on alterative ADK forums) such as:

6. With Hiker Internets try to keep track of who went where and try to follow in their tracks. The Winter Forty-Sixer Goal, isn't easy and doesn't count by "How many trails you break," the challenge is big enough without adding the total responsibility of breaking all the trails. There is no special award for that and the Winter Rocker is still handed to you. It just means you have to do them during the Winter Months of Dec. 21-March 21. So why do them all the hard way if you don't have to?"

They must think of the winter 46 as a race, not as one of lifes journeys.

 

[Peakbagr]

I don't think that was the point that Skyclimber was making. Back when, the W46 was quite an accomplishment as there were only a handful of people doing them.
There wasn't an internet or hiking board to consult. There weren't posts asking about when a trail was broken out or not. Even most of the trailled peaks required breaking.
I don't want to put words in Marta's mouth, but among some of the low-numbered winter 46ers, there is occasional talk about how different(and yes, how much easier) the W46 is to attain with mass communication and some of the things you read about on the hiking boards and trip reports.
Yep, there are still well-conditioned winter hikers out there, maybe even in better shape, but the game is certainly easier today than when 2 or 3 hikers a year finished the W46.

 

[Skyclimber]

Thank You So Much Peakbagger. You did say it, " basicially the way I meant."
You said it perfectly, "On How Much More Fun Winter Climbing Was 13 Years Ago."
Signing in those log books, in Winter, in the Sewards, Redfield, Cliff, etc. finding, you were the first person there for a month or two months at a time. Which gave that feeling of accomplishment, feeling of pride, that No Words could ever describe.

 

[spaddock]

Thank You So Much Peakbagger. You did say it, "the way I meant."
You said it perfectly, "On How Much More Fun Winter Climbing Was 13 Years Ago."

And it would have been a lot more "difficult" to hike it 50 years ago too.

Technology and equipment advancement make everything "easier". If people wanted to hike retro they could just not check the boards. Sure since there is more traffic on the trails the chances of them being packed down is greater.

Reminds me of Jon Krakauer's book "Into the Wild" Chris McCandless complained that the world had no more exploration, everywhere had been mapped, so he threw out the map.


-Shayne

 

[Skyclimber]

I made an honest opinion and statement.

 

[PINPIN JUNIOR]

46er reflection....

Hi Gang.

Percious,

Did You like the Cliff Winter route in the Summer?
Will You return next time by the same way?
If your answer is positive We think You are a little bit masochistic!

Skyclimber2971w,

Soda, wine or beer the must important it isn't the drink it will be the toast and put a face on the writter!

Big t storm,

More risks You try in the winter hike must chance You will have good stories for your old time, but only if every time You survive at your challenge!!

Every challenge is different to every people,

When You have for goal to hike the 46 each month of the year You can not hope every route will be broken!!!

My old challenger Wayne Ratowsky finished 11th solo Winter 46er rounds, Do You think He was waitting to know when the trail was broken?

Yes in the canister's time, when You was the first in the Winter or You was the only to sing after this peak stay without friend for a month or two, to put Your name in the register it was a special time....

Peakbagr and Marta and other nostalgic peoples,
Iif You like to live a similar hike same 50 year before Go to try the 100 Hight Peaks in the Winter. A couple of nice challenges will be there, specialy the 5 Sawtooth peaks, if this goal same a children's playgroung, Go to the 217 may be 219 now over 3000 feet in the Swampson-Crispo's list with 11 in a Sawtooth Range, if You like to hike without the chance to have a snowplow in from You Go to Little Couche!!!

Every body can hike with old wood snowshoes without "new" technologic cloth and without map....each challenge is a choice!!
What is your style Remade the Blake's challenge or with the new support Go more far, fast and hight!!!!

Pinpin Junior.

 

[Neil]

It's all good.

I've hiked about 10 winter ADK peaks this year and they all were either on packed trails where the going was easier than in the summer and where navigation aids never needed to be consulted (except to play "what's that summit?") I knew how easy I had it and was simply glad to be out in mountains profitting from the experience. Then on Sunday we had the real ADK winter experience I'd been reading about. From the base of Donaldson to the top via Calkins took us more than 4 hours in unconsolidated snow. Spruce traps, snow bombs, elusive herd trails, false leads and backtracking, stopping to let the chest pounding subside etc. etc. We got a heaping helping of a completely different reality. After 15 hours of almost non-stop hiking we only "got" one summit out of the 3 hoped for but had a day that money just can't buy.
The point? It dosn't matter whether it used to be harder or how much it has changed or whether some people prefer, and use the internet, to get on packed trails versus unpacked. The point to me is to simply be outdoors in the wonderful Adirondack Mountains and have a good time with friends and family, breathing that awesome winter air. The peakbagging is a lot of fun too but it's what goes on in yer head that determines how happy a hiker ya are. And it's better to be happy. Anyway, to paraphrase Shayne: you want it tougher, throw away the map, and the internet, and the gps and bushwhack your way to the top. Personally, I'd at least keep the map.

 

[Peakbagr]

My post was not a knock on anyone, just supporting Marta's view that doing the winter peaks ARE different with internet communication.

Also, doing the winter ADK HP's 20 years ago was probably not much different hiking them 50 years ago. The 70's and 80's saw wool clothing, mostly wooden snowshoes, and very little hi tech clothing, gear, and boots. Unsophisticated packs and bindings, few broken trails, and everything by map and compass were the norms.
What they did have was more accumulated hurricane damage and blowdown than pre 1940's winter explorers would not have faced.

I couldn't agree with Pin Pin more about many observations. I'm working on the ADK100 right now but don't ever see my completing them in winter though. If I were still 30, that would be another matter.
This is an interesting discussion.

 

[PINPIN JUNIOR]

Snowplow's club!!!

Hi Neil,

Welcome in the snowplow's club hiker,

Great job.

Now You know what it is a positive experience to be the first to made a small track in a virgin snow!!! and know may be tomorrow the nature will erase this ridicule thing!!!

When every steep is a question!!! Where is the usual way?
Or Will be possible to past by this line?
Or how many time I can support this effort?

But also How happy You are when You catched the summit after the big work!!!
We think You know yourself a little bit more now!!!

Congratulation.

Pinpin Junior.

 

[Neil]

Peakbagger,
It was clear you weren't knocking anyone.

My Manitoba winter camping buddy from in the 70's and I still get out nearly once a year. Our favourite expression: "Remember the good old days when winter was colder?"
I've gone from wool, leather and wood to MSR's, gps, gore-tex and the internet and it has increased my enjoyment greatly. And as a bonus I get to tell the younger generation about how it was in "my day" when if we wanted snowshoes we had to go out and cut down a tree and kill a deer first.

Doing the winter 46 a decade or two ago must have so much tougher that to get an easy peak once in a while must have made you feel like you were getting away with a crime (the perfect crime!) or cheating almost.

 

[BlackSpruce]

The good old days!

Are you saying that winters hikers didn't used their telephone lines and their cars before WFTT...

We are all extremely lucky that we can climb in summer and winters and that it is not a race allowing each one of us to walk about at our own pace wherever we choose and whenever life allows us.

Climbing the Adirondack High Peaks is strictly an affair between oneself and the mountains. And the ultime "reward" about becoming a summer or winter 46-R. is that the memories will last for ever.

Christine

 

[Skyclimber]

Yes Alain we will have that drink together. But I will pass on the Top 100 in Winter. I'de have about 50 more to go. The Sawtooth Range in other seasons was as big of challenge as I want to get. They weren't easy. Have 5 more to go on the Top 100's in the other 3 seasons.

 

[spaddock]

Personally, I'd at least keep the map.

Good choice. In the book that turned out to be a pretty big mistake.


-Shayne

 

[Peakbagr]

Neil, Christine, Marta...I agree with you all. Well said.

Christine, yep, the telephone lines would heat up on the Thursday and Friday evenings before a weekend trip. The only difficulty is that there were only a handful of crazies doing it and not a lot of info to share.

I love your comment about it allowing us to do them at our own pace and the memories that last forever. That certainly applies to me the last few years.

 

[Skyclimber]

Then when the only other two "crazies" were unable to hike that weekend, we went alone. (not smart) Getting up in the middle of the night, sometimes midnight, to be on the trails for 2:00-3:00 a.m. not to see the car again, until way later in the evening. The more snow you got during the week, the earlier you got up, on hiking day morning, planning on a very long day, of unbroken trails.

The many times you'd not meet a single soul the entire trip.

 

[alistair]

Cliff

I hate to drag this thread back to its original intention .........
Anyone interested in a true old timers,winter experience ,breaking trail and slogging to the summit of Cliff this coming Sunday (March 6th)?
The trail was broken by PinP in last Sunday but since then there has been considerable snow. Anyone up for the challenge?

 

[fior1212]

I'm still in.

 

[spaddock]

I hate to drag this thread back to its original intention .........
Anyone interested in a true old timers,winter experience ,breaking trail and slogging to the summit of Cliff this coming Sunday (March 6th)?
The trail was broken by PinP in last Sunday but since then there has been considerable snow. Anyone up for the challenge?

Which route you thinking about doing? Winter route? Summer route? Parachute from a plane route?

-Shayne

 

[Neil]

I hate to drag this thread back to its original intention .........

Alistair, you may be the first person to ever have to hijack his own thread back!
There are stirrings of a Cliff winter hike at ADKforum.

 

[Peakbagr]

My public apologies for kidnapping the thread. I hate it when it happens to me, and I'm sorry to have sidetracked you.