Hypothermia

[dvbl]

Last saturday on Mt Washington (and similar peaks in the area) was a perfect day for hypothermia. Temps in the 40's, lots of wind and rain.

Anyone ever have hypothermia? Noooooo, not us, of course not. Ok, I'll re-phrase...anyone willing to admit he's ever had hypothermia? Where were you, what were you doing, what mistakes did you make, how severe, did you notice the early signs, was anyone there to help you, etc?

 

[cbcbd]

I've had signs of early hypothermia.

Hiking in the ADK high peaks in mid October last year with the girlfriend. Very rainy day, probably around 50s.
We got on the Mr Van trail heading West (ski trail) to head back to the ADK Loj... well, it was pretty swamped and flooded as the signs had noted. Crossed a pond where the trail just ended and then did some bushwacking to try to find where the trail was supposed to continue. I was already shaking a little here and there but while a little lost and trying to figure out where to go I stopped to take a look at the map/compass and when I turned to speak to my girlfriend my words came out all mumbly and slurred - "Uh oh".
I didn't need anything else to tell me that I had to stop and take care of it before it got worse - ate a candy bar and put on another layer.

Other than that, no - at least not that I remember since I've become aware of hypothermia and the early signs.

 

[lumberzac]

I had a similar experience to cbcbd’s heading up Redfield (ADK's) solo one August afternoon. I was soaked head to toe and couldn’t stop shivering. I stopped, threw on a jacket, at a candy bar, and turned around about .2 of a mile from the summit (probably one of the smartest decisions I’ve ever made). When I got to the Feldspar Lean-to, I put on dry cloths, got in my sleeping bag, and cooked up a hot meal. It wasn’t long after eating that I felt 100% again.

 

[marty]

No, but I'm hiking with Sapblatt tomorrow, so it is sure to rain cats and dogs!

I should be able to give you a full report tomorrow night

 

[Jim lombard]

I had a pretty good bout of it in early March hiking in the rain, temps around 38 degrees and windy. We hiked over both Kinsmans that day. Stupid of me to push it over both peaks, I paid for it that night as my body fought to regulate it's temperature. I doubt if I'd hike in the rain in winter again.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Some time ago (over 10 years), in another world, I posted my story about my fooling around with hypothermia.

http://newmud.comm.uottawa.ca/~pete/hypothermia.txt

Still formatted as ugly-ily as it was then.

 

[sapblatt]

The general consensus is that I was in the early stages on last February's East Osceola attempt. You can read it HERE.

I feel that my big mistake was not switching to appropriate gear before it was totally needed. Staying in snowshoes when crampons were needed, not putting on extra layers when we got slowed down crossing the slide etc.

I hiked with great people that day and we were always safe - it does creep up on you, and it has a strange knack of making you tell yourself "I'm OK" when in fact you will not be OK for much longer if you don't do something immediately.

 

[Klutz]

I don't think it was hypothermia, but could've very well turned into it. One of our winter trips into Baxter was late Feb or early March temps were about 20 thereabouts with winds(at our backs, thank god) about the same give or take.... I was wearing my hiking boots(these are used in summer, fall, spring, not really good for winter). We were about 1/2 to 3/4 way into the camp when my feet started to get really cold and instead of stopping to add layers and eat something, I pushed on thinking I know if I just keep going we'll get there sooner, that wasn't such a good idea. I also only had on a two long sleeve tops and my gore tex jacket. I actually was ahead of the people I was with and when they got to me, I told them I was starting to get cold and was shaking just a little bit from my feet being cold, as well as my hands at that point. Well by the time we got into the cabin, I couldn't hold or do anything, but really needed to get something hot into me and get that fire going. This is another big reason I will never winter camp without a cabin, I don't think I could handle trying to get warmed up in just a tent and sleeping bag......

 

[Kevin]

Been there, done that, have the helicopter bill to prove it...

Last month actually while up in Alaska to hike the Chilkoot Trail, weather was in the 50's to very low 60's during the day, at night it was high 40's to low 50's. It had been and was either raining, misting, foggy, or some other variation of humidity all the time we were there.

The first day I was doing great, you have to love adreneline... Had a great dinner, feeling off though from jet lag and running around for a few days before... Actually in hindsight, something was not right since I had touched down in Alaska... The next morning, I woke up, had breakfast, drank some Emergen-C packets since I slept like crap and knew I needed to be on my game... Started to hike, hit a few hills right out of camp, kept sucking down water from my Camelback, tried to eat some small stuff, but nothing was working right.

By the time we hit the camp before the camp we were staying in for the night I was stumbling, mumbling, and disoriented; scary part I was the veteran hiker out of the three of us on this trip.

By the time we made camp that afternoon, I was wipped out, shaking, not hungry, not thirsty, could not get warm. Went to see the ranger to let him know I was having problems. He was not around, got back to camp, set up camp, sat in a warming hut for an hour with everything I had on in front of a roaring fire... Nada... Not working, not good.

I tired to drink, could'nt handle it,l the smell of people making dinner was repulsive, I ended up going back to my tent to await the ranger. He came a few hours later, did some vitals, was OK but iffy...

Over night was horrible, tried to muster the energy to get ready to hike the next day which was the hardest day and could not do it. I tired to drink some water, brought it back up, dry heaved, had uncontrolable shakes for the whole night, was wrapped in everything I had...

Well, by 9am the next day the ranger broke my camp, helped me to his cabin, tried to get me to drink, monitored my vitals, and watched over me. Finally made the call to have me medivaced out later that afternoon.

Got to the Skagway clinic with a lower then normal body temp, a blood sugar level of 41, and shivering bad... They filled me with IV, wrapped me warmed blankets, and a few hours later I was on my way... Needless to say my real hiking was over for my trip...

It sucked, partly because my friends left me behind with the ranger... Still am tweaked about that some what...

I plan to head back next summer with some warmer gear, and will finish the Chilkoot... it is a beautiful trail and I feel ripped off since I missed out on the fun parts!!!!

Looking back, everything I KNEW I needed to do, I did'nt... The biggest reason was hiking with two totally inexperienced hikers; who finished the trail mind you... I was worried more about their safety and not myself. I should have been drinking more elecctrolytes, I did not... I should have eaten more meals, and more snacks, although I ate A LOT as we hiked, going through more food then normal; another sign I ignored. And lastly, I underestimated how much body heat I was losing due to the dampness. I will be packing a nice wool sweater next summer!

Basically all of the signs we all knew were there, I ignored.

Catch you later...
Kevin

 

[king tut]

I have felt the initial stages of hypothermia while downhill skiing when it was about -20 to -30 outside. The extremities freeze first, but that's not too bad. When you feel the mind start to lose it's sharpness, it is time to head into the lodge and sit near the fire. I have never felt it hiking or x-c skiing though, as far as I can remember. Maybe it did happen and damaged the memory part of my brain, who knows?

 

[BorealChickadee]

Kevin, that's a really scary story. You were out of it for a long time! I seriously doubt you could have made it out by yourself.
Curiosity killed the cat: want to tell us how much the medivac bill was?

 

[Trudy]

Wow, Kevin.
If it can happen to you....
Did this have anything to do with altitude?

 

[miehoff]

Yes, Pete...

I probably should have used a rectal thermometer to get a more accurate reading, you after skiing 65Km, I just didn't feel like sticking something up my ass. I think you can understand.

...I can understand.

 

[DougPaul]

I probably should have used a rectal thermometer to get a more accurate reading.

Real hypothermia themometers go down to 75F or so...

Doug

 

[moonrock]

I had a taste of it in late May/early June (2004 ?) the day the above member photo was taken (if you don't know that's Whiteface, Shame on you).

DNAgent and I took the (western) Whiteface Brook route, rough and steep. My first real (NY) hike of the season. That daypack and Precip stayed on For A Reason. Thanks to cool (but not frigid) weather, we were not exactly besieged by tourists, before or after knocking off Esther.

When we got back to the WFB leanto, I became profoundly tired. Instead of starting dinner, I just wanted to crawl into my sleeping bag. Fortunately, logic (and fear) conspired to make me a hot pint of sugared, decaf tea.
Then I snapped back. Creeepy, though, how it saps your motivation and judgement.

MR

 

[Maddy]

I have had two incidences.
A number of years ago I was hiking up with friends to watch the skiers on Tuckerman's. The teens got way ahead of us and all they were packing all the food. I was getting really hot so I shed some outerwear.
Kept hiking but started to get cold...colder...even colder. Stopped but my left arm was numb. Got my jacket on but was very hungry, could not warm up, felt horrible, kept going. By the time we arrived at HOJO's I stumbled in and my friend brought me several snickers bars. I just stood there against the wall wolfing them down and stayed there at least 20 minutes. I never told the AMC people. FINALLY...I started to feel better. Of course the big mistake was not putting clothes on before I started to freeze and not having food.
The next incident I have discusses before but I thought it was worth mentioning again because their are new people inquiring.
The second incident happened during my winter Outward Bound course in 2003, skiing and dogsledding. First night on trail, minus 40. Sleeping in double bags, double pads, under a tarp. Had received thorough instructions from leaders re: hypothermia symptoms and how to prevent it. Whisle around neck at all times. Arose to go to "BR" and did not run or jump in place (as had been instructed) prior to getting back in sleeping bag. If you get back in your bag cold , you will not warm up in those temps.Got back in my bags but did not zip them up properly, was too tired to worry about it,dismissed it as overkill, and just went to sleep. After all, I had camped out in the winter before. I DID KNOW WHAT I WAS DOING! Approx one hour later, wake up, can't feel either leg, can't walk, can't get boots or down jacket on. Thoughts are becoming very strange. I knew I was in trouble. Didn't blow the whistle cause I didn't want to wake up my teamates. Crawled to the leaders who were in a megamid approx 6 feet from us. They poured hot chocolate into me. It was all ready to go in one of their bags. Fed me lost of chocolate and Abbey placed my legs on her stomach and kept rubbing them.They of course put my jacket and hat on me, and finally the Bear boots. Megan built a fire in cook tent and they brought me there where I had to drink lots of warm jello. Finally I felt 100% but of course exhausted. I can only imagine...so were they. They had me sleep between them in the Mid. . Great wilderness first responders! They allowed me to stay on the course because "they trusted me to to tell them when something was wrong". I was deeply grateful.
So....live and learn but most of all pay attention when people who have more knowledge share their great wisdom with you. It could save your life.

 

[Stan]

Many years ago I tried a controlled experiment on myself to learn what it felt like to be on the verge of hypothermia and what the recovery would be like.

I hiked Monadnock on a cold blustery day, no precipitation, and though I brought warm gear, it was packed and I hiked up in the barest of essentials. I was getting chilled despite the exertion well before the summit but above treeline. I stopped and the chill came on even worse ... not surprising since I was not generating any heat by my activity. Of course, closely related to this is the fact that your fingers get numb and it becomes more difficult to do some of the things that can help you, like operating zippers and putting on layers. Even after putting on a fleece jacket and goretex shell I had difficulty rewarming. My snacks were helpful but the warm chocolate I brought in a thermos, even cooled a bit, was very uncomfortable going down and seemed to burn my chest. Experiment over I lost all motivation to summit and returned to my car, by which time I felt fine again.

I was a long way from any serious danger but learned from this: 1) things can go downhill fast (no pun intended but that's a good strategy), 2) it is easier to prevent hypothermia than to recover, 3) hypothermia can be accompanied by other debilitating effects like frost bite so in preparing for this emergency, plan your gear accordingly.

In analyzing this experience and related reading and training, I think the ability to build a fire under adverse circumstances may turn out to be the key to survival. I am surprised from other threads here at the number of people who undervalue a small fire. I am convinced that the lost couple on Franconia Ridge a few years ago, where a physically fit woman died, could have been avoided had a fire been built before they got into extremis. A fire provides warmth and it can help searchers ... just don't burn down the Pemi in the process.

 

[Kevin]

Medivac bill surprisingly was not a lot... luckily! I was outside Skagway when this happened... So not a lot of altitude there, actually it is a lot like here, heck the Chilkoot Pass is just over 3k... Just very VERY steep hiking.

What I found out from the ranger while we were at the cabin was that there are no military copters of any kind based in Skagway, no Coast Guard or National Guard units, only the tourist copters and the only company being TEMSCO. The closest CG copter was in Sitka or Ketchican, many many hours south of where we were, and the ranger thought that may not even be accurate at that time as they were dealing with the car transport shop that had rolled on it's side out near the Aluetians; he thought they were working that.

So your only option is TEMSCO to come rescue/pull your freezing bum off the trail. Now here comes the good part kiddies, make sure you hike with a credit card because they apparently will not come get you unless you call in your credit card number...

WHAT????? Yep my thoughts too...

Needless to say I did not have a CC with me, did'nt think I would have to use it, so I left it with my unneeded gear back in Juneau at a buddies house there. I guess the Park Service and TEMSCO must have some sort of deal going though because I wondered if someone fell injured with something really really bad would they wave that requirement? I am not sure, I never asked.

Here I am with no credit card, but luckily there was a sat phone at the ranger's cabin. BTW, this was a plush ranger's cabin, propane fridge, stove, heating and lighting... Not a bad place to be stationed at, I just wanted out though... After trying my parent's back here in NY with no luck, I could not remember my brother's phone number, I kept repeating my number as his, I was having trouble remebering different phone numbers which was freaking me out. I luckily remembered it after writing it down and staring at the numbers and figured it out... I Called him, he called the helicopter folks and I was on my way...

As for the bill, it is $1600 flat rate/per hour... It did not matter that it took them 10 minutes to fly up, and 10 minutes to fly back with about 10 minutes on the ground. I kidded with the ranger that maybe they could post a sign at the helicopter place saying 'Live mountain resuce, $500 a seat...' and try to off set my costs, but he said they frown on those things apparently.

I was also lucky that they only had to fly me back to Skagway, it turns out according to the ranger, if the weather had turned bad to get me back to Skagway, or the clinic was closed; the clinic is open from M-F 9-5, unless it was a real life or death emergency, they would have flown me to Whitehorse Canada, back to Juneau, or worse worse case, Dawson up in the Canadian Yukon... That would have made no sense to me...

My insurance said they do not cover helicopter rescues, nor do they cover ambulances either, I know, I have some pretty crappy insurance... I still submitted it, hoping that they may though me a bone of some sort, we will see. Another thing I learned about this, is that I will ALWAYS... ALWAYS buy travel insurance before I head out on another trip like this, the $50-100 bucks it would have cost me would have saved me many times over.

As for the walking out option, I was debating that in the back of my mind, using a few days at the ranger's cabin to see how my condition went, and then hiking out, but since I would have had to hike out solo, the weather remaining the same, the ranger said no way, not with what I was going through would they allow me to leave the cabin, which was smart... Let's send a guy that just had hypothermia back out in the conditions that made him sick...

Had my friends not left me, then that could have been an option, but not solo. Also, there were no other back country rangers available to hike in, to hike out with me either.

Catch you later...
Kevin

PS... And yes, I have been doing some butt kissing to the brother, he could have pulled the ultimate big brother screw over, but did'nt... Lucky for my butt!

Kevin, that's a really scary story. You were out of it for a long time! I seriously doubt you could have made it out by yourself.
Curiosity killed the cat: want to tell us how much the medivac bill was?

 

[percious]

I have had Stage One Hypothermia (and knew it) and I have seen friends go stage 1/2 before.

Last February I decided to climb Gothics in the rain. A cold front moved through right as I reached the Col befor the summit, but I just had to go up there. As a frozen icicle I crawled across the summit in 100 mph winds. My so-called goretex jacket had soaked through, and my bottom layer consisted of long bike pants and a goretex layer. When I get really cold, my muscles start to cramp, which is exactly what happened. I knew I was in trouble, and cut my planned itinerary short, bailing out down the Ausable side. I ran into Cbdbd at the bottom, and I think he can attest that I was pretty much shivering uncontrollably. I warmed up in the car, and hiked another 3 miles to camp with friends that night!

February 2003 I made an attempt on Mt. Colden with my buddy Will. We were proud of our "Wallmart special" gear, laughing at those who spent $$$$ on theirs. We would do the best with what we had. By the time we reached the campsite at avalanche pass my buddy was showing real bad signs of hypothermia. Slurred speech, irrationalality, shivering... He was so worried about *me* being cold. I pretty much had to order him to set up the tent and get in his sleeping bag, while I cooked a warm dinner. He was fine, we abandoned a summit attempt on Colden, hiking to safety the next day.

Problem with Hypothermic people is that they will sometimes insist that they do not have Hypothermia. It is amazing how similar this is to altitude sickness. I feel like I know my body pretty well, and I know when I am pushing the cold limits. If someone else is seeing signs of you being too cold, you pretty much have to take their word though, because it might save your life.

-percious

 

[DougPaul]

I was a long way from any serious danger but learned from this: 1) things can go downhill fast (no pun intended but that's a good strategy), 2) it is easier to prevent hypothermia than to recover, 3) hypothermia can be accompanied by other debilitating effects like frost bite so in preparing for this emergency, plan your gear accordingly.

Hypothermia is one of those things that is best delt with by staying ahead of it, particularly when solo.

Stay adequately fueled (fed), hydrated (dehydration is a factor in most cases of hypothermia), insulated, and keep your insulation dry (the colder it is, the more important it becomes that you not sweat into your insulation--you may need it when you stop...).

The first signs are that you become cold and start shivering. Getting chilled is a continuium and an easy slope to slide down. (And since it is desirable to stay slightly on the cool side (below timberline) to avoid sweating, you are likely to already be a small step down this slope from the start. (Above timberline, it is best to stay slightly warm--ventilation is very easy if there is any wind.)) Shivering, however, is an easily recognized discrete event--if you start to shiver, now is a good time to do something about it...

And don't forget, rational thought is an early casualty of hypothermia...

In analyzing this experience and related reading and training, I think the ability to build a fire under adverse circumstances may turn out to be the key to survival. I am surprised from other threads here at the number of people who undervalue a small fire. I am convinced that the lost couple on Franconia Ridge a few years ago, where a physically fit woman died, could have been avoided had a fire been built before they got into extremis. A fire provides warmth and it can help searchers ... just don't burn down the Pemi in the process.

A fire is good in theory, and very helpful in certain circumstances. But there are problems with them. Assume you are mildly-to-medium hypothermic. Building a fire requires time and skill--can you afford the time and muster the skill in your present condition?. If you are above timberline, there won't be an adequate supply of wood. If below timberline, the wood is likely to be wet and/or frozen. If it is windy, can you get the fire going? Unfortunately, the conditions under which you need the fire the most are the conditions under which you are least likely to get one going. And if you get one going, one side gets roasted while the other gets chilled.

The couple on Lafayette, became disoriented under winter storm conditions on a bare ridge with no fuel. IIRC, they were eventually found near N Lafayette, just off the ridge. There are a few small trees near where I think they were found, but it is still exposed to the wind and snow covered most of the potential fuel. My guess is that a fire would have been very difficult to impossible.

We tend to associate hypothermia with winter, but many (most?) cases occur at temps in the 40s and 50s (F), frequently on wet days.

Doug