Ice Climbers Rescued On Mt. Washington

[afka_bob]

Oh.

Do you mean the brutal honesty of people who think they know what they are talking about from sketchy reports immediately after the event, or brutal honesty from people (not me!) who actually know what they are talking about with real information?

 

[Stan]

If some of the thoughtfulness and reason expressed here sound familiar to Appalachia accident report readers it is probably because, last I knew, those accident reports are authored by a master of thoughtfulness and reason, Mohamed.

I think this Monday morning quarterbacking about incidents and accidents is good education, especially if it can be kept to practice and not personalities. I doubt any of us here has exited these mountains, perhaps by the thinnest of margins, without having done something that someone else would consider "dumb".

 

[giggy]

ya know what - this is a discussion forum - lets discuss the issue.

If it helps one person not get hurt/frozen its worth it.

If there are any experienced ice climbers on the forum - I would like to hear their view on bringing someone on their first climb (assuming that is true) up that gully.

This is my first year doing ice and I couldn't even fathom that gully right now. I think that is root of it all. Late start - hard gully climb, first time on ice, getting to top late - freezing nuts off in alpine garden - its just seems a pattern of some questionable decisions.

I recently did a snow climb up south gully (guided) and that is one of the easier climbs up there and I thought it was very challenging for a first climb. Even after that, I don't see myself on any of those other gullies w/o alot more practice.

The only thing I question is the late start - in combination with the first climb on a tough gully ice climb. Maybe I am wrong and this is done routinetly with an good leader.

and yes- I was caught in a potential disaster on the franconia ridge a few years back - the compass and a bit of luck saved me. I should have tunred back at the start of the whiteout and since then - many a times I have been at the top of boot spur, lions head, etc.. and went straight back down.

 

[DougPaul]

I think this Monday morning quarterbacking about incidents and accidents is good education, ...

<soapbox on>
Disagree: a core problem is that it is MONDAY MORNING quarterbacking We don't have the facts, just a scattering of reports, largely from a group that is generally ignorant of mountaineering (news reporters). Lets get the facts of the event before we try to analyze it and attempt learn something that will keep us safer. Sometimes this requires waiting for the official accident reports.

Winter hiking/mountaineering involves taking risks in an unforgiving environment. (Driving a car also involves taking risks in what may be an unforgiving environment...) We all plan the best we can, but who can tell what the weather will be in 8hrs, guarantee that he will not slip on the next piece of ice, know at all times where the route goes, know exactly what the route conditions will be, guarantee that he will not get sick, know if a piece of protection will hold a fall, predict exactly when a snow slope will avalanche, know exactly where the next rock will fall, etc. We must evaluate the situation and risks based upon our skills and incomplete information, and do our best to make appropriate decisions. Even the best of the best sometimes makes a bad decision, and sometimes there are bad consequences.

Learning judgement is a dangerous business--one makes mistakes, hopefully without bad consequences, and (hopefully) learns from them rather than repeating them. All of us can look back and see a bunch of foolish things that we have done (and will try to avoid repeating...). But as we accumuate the safety of skill, we tend to move on to activities that require more skill (and frequently, risk). There is evidence that we tend to live in a constant perceived risk mode--for instance, when seatbellts were introduced, we drove faster because we felt safer with the belts.

We all make mistakes and take unnecessary risks. I'll bet that every mistake that the ice climbers made had been made by others, perhaps even in similar combinations, usually without bad consequences. Many accidents, in retrospect, are a series of errors plus bad luck. (Many successful trips include a bunch of errors without the bad luch.) Read "The Hall of the Mountain King" by Howard Snyder for an insightful account of a disaster on Mt McKinley.

We also live in a culture that admires risk takers (they are brave, bold, etc)--as long they doesn't get injured/killed. Our entertainment is also full of it (eg James Bond). But the moment someone is injured or killed, we tend to villify him (he was foolish, made bad decisions, a dangerous climber, an accident waiting to happen, etc) even if he has carefully taken a low risk path.

Safety is not simple--many trade-offs are involved: for example, carrying safety gear may make it easier to deal with an accident, yet can make an accident more likely either by slowing the party or by justifying greater risks. A larger party is slower, may take greater risks due to "safety in numbers", is subject to group-dynamics problems ("everyone else was doing it"), and simply has more people to have a accident. And then there is luck.

Analysis of accidents is very important to improve safety in this field (also in automotive design and use...), but only if it is based upon accurate information about the chain of events. Please let us wait for the facts before we draw our conclusions.
<soapbox off>

All that said, I'm glad they survived and that no rescuers were injured (as far as I know). I will be interested in reading the accident reports and analysis when they become available.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

<snip>

If there are any experienced ice climbers on the forum - I would like to hear their view on bringing someone on their first climb (assuming that is true) up that gully.

This is my first year doing ice and I couldn't even fathom that gully right now. I think that is root of it all. Late start - hard gully climb, first time on ice, getting to top late - freezing nuts off in alpine garden - its just seems a pattern of some questionable decisions.
<snip>

The only thing I question is the late start - in combination with the first climb on a tough gully ice climb. Maybe I am wrong and this is done routinetly with an good leader.
<snip>

I used to ice climb.

It is hard to say how justifiable bringing that beginner on Damnation Gully was. I have not climbed DG, but have climbed in Huntingon Ravine. My 1982 guidebook lists it as grade III (8hrs) NEI 3 (50-60 deg water ice, short 70-90 deg bulges). A web conditions report lists it as "in". We had warm weather (melt above) followed by cold (freeze the water in the gully) so it could be in pretty good condition. (I'm guessing here--haven't seen it recently myself.) The gully is south facing so it gets the sun's heat. Note that ice climbs change from day-to-day. No guidebook can tell you what you will find when you get there.

What are the leader's skills? Had he done the climb before? Beginner's skills? (Remember, one could be very good on rock and a beginner on ice.) Beginner's winter skills? What was the weather report? What was the observed weather? (Note that you are in an east-facing ravine and cannot see the weather approaching from the west.) What was the actual condition of the climb? An 11am start to an HR climb isn't that unusual particularly if you start from Pinkham Notch. Darkness need not be an issue if you aren't afraid of it, conditions are good, and you have a light.

So my conclusion is that I don't have enough information to make one.

For comparison:
I took a beginner on his first serious ice climb. He was experienced in winter hiking, rock climbing, and had done some easy ice climbing. I chose a grade I (several hours) NEI 2-3 at Frankenstein (Crawford Notch, below Mt Willey) and immediately got his attention by dropping a good size dinner plate (disk of ice) onto my knee and foot on the first move off the ground. I wouldn't have taken him up DG for a first serious climb, but it might have been reasonable to do so a weekend or two later (would one still call him a beginner?).

Another comparison:
My climb of Pinnacle Gully (grade II (half day), NEI 3) in HR started around noon (had to wait for a climber above to clear the climb). I rope-soloed (my second (out of practice, very skilled) backed off at the first pitch), and I finished at dusk. (Rope soloing is slow--you have to climb, descend, and reclimb each pitch.) Packed up my toys at the top of the gully, snow climbed up to the Alpine Garden, walked down Lion's Head Tr, and met my partner at Harvard Cabin. The sun had set, but there was plenty of light (sky was clear or high overcast) and I only needed my headlamp for a short bit. Conditions were good (the view of Portland was very pretty). My only problem was that I postholed through a snow slab into a spruce trap on LHT and had to extracate my leg by myself. (Lost a gorp bottle--if you see one...) Otherwise, in control the entire time. Had a map, compass, and light. Had also been on the AG and LHT before.

You bring up a point: my reading is that most of the people on this BB are hikers, not climbers. I think a climber is in a far better position to accurately judge the actions of a climber on a climb than is a non-climber.

Doug

 

[ChrisB]

A Bit of Info

Hi all,

I am no expert, but I have done that climb a few times.

It is the longest route in the ravine, which for me, would preclude an 11 AM start in January (as opposed to March). It is a good route to take a beginner on, providing they are proficient in crampons, etc.

Most years it is a steep snow chute punctuated by three or four short (10-20 feet), near vertical ice buldges.

The top often is the crux, and under the right conditions forms a snow cornice that you can (with care) move over, or burrow into and through like a vole.

The shortest exit down from the top is to head immediately East (right) and walk past the top of North gully and down the shoulder of the ravine, eventually working your way back to the first aide cache. One advantage of this descent is that it goes in the direction of the prevailing winds and lets you lose altitude almost immediately. In low snow years I think it's the way to go.

Not sure why this party opted to descend via the Escape hatch. To do so you must walk from one side of the ravine all the way around to the other. In good condx this is a pleasant stroll. In bad condx...

In some ways the route can be hard to protect. The long snow slopes preclude the use of ice screws, and rock pro is not always easy to set in the walls of the gully. Deadman or snow stakes work well, but most parties do not carry them.

Damnation was the site of a serious accident a few season back, when an ice dam blew out, knocked the lead climber off a buldge, and the belayer was unable to hold the fall. Both guys went to the bottom of the route, and I think one might have been killed.

Actually it is pretty common for climbers to top out in Huntington and then end up "camping." Happens two or three times a season (that we hear about!). That's part of the challenge and joy of climbing in the ravine, however. Unlike others areas such as Frankenstein, the climb isn't over once you surrmount that last buldge. Then you must shift from ice climber to alpinist to find your way down to the safety of the ravine floor.

Next time you are in Pinkham or on the Carters, you'll be able to see Damnation Gully. Look to the center of the ravine and locate Central Gully. Then pan right a bit until you see a thin thread of snow and ice that is obviously longer than the other gullys. It curves a bit to the left at the top. That's Damnation.

cb

 

[Bolivia]

News from the actual climbers themselves

Although this thread has been commandeered by stats about hikers from different states, it started out (thanks, bobandgeri) about a couple of ice climbers from New Haven, CT on Mt Washington.

I live within 10 miles of New Haven. According to a 1/27/5 artical in the New Haven Register, he is a 30 year old experienced ice climber who is a doctor at the hospital affiliated with Yale University and she is a 31 year old Fulbright Scholar from Finland who is doing grad studies at Yale.

It goes on to say that they couldn't get back because they couldn't stand up in the wind and kept falling down (we all know about that, don't we) and then had to dig an ice shelter for the night. At first light they moved to where they would likely be spotted by rescuers who helped them walk down. She has frostbite on her fingers and ears and he on his nose.

It seems there is a difference of opinion with what was on the Mt Washington website. The newspaper quotes her as saying, "There was no one advising us not to go. We checked the weather. The conditions were perfect."

For what it's worth... As with most news items, we'll likely never know the full truth.

 

[iceNsnow]

OOOOOOoooooooooooooooh Maddy!!!

I never laughed so hard as when I read your comment about the Denali MaP!!!

"It brought to mind the day my friend and I walked into a mountaineering store and asked the salesperson what we would need to summit Denali and did they have a map??? He couldn't speak for about*ten minutes. We left there with second thoughts about how we were going to spend our upcoming vacation."


I have been in your shoes. Thanks for the enjoyment of laughing at myself!!


yours truly,
Inge

 

[AOC-1]

First climb in HR?

"If there are any experienced ice climbers on the forum - I would like to hear their view on bringing someone on their first climb (assuming that is true) up that gully."

I've already expressed the view that these climbers should be cut a lot of slack here. But I'll go out on a limb and say it was not a good call. From neclimbs:

"They were moving extremely slow and the cabin caretaker saw them on the second pitch of the gully at around 4 PM! As they got to the top the conditions had deteriorated significantly and it was dark. They did not descend the gully because the second had never rappelled before."

If they were forced to ascend into riotous conditions because the second did not know how to rappel, there is your answer. The ravine is no place to learn basic climbing techniques.

 

[DougPaul]

"They were moving extremely slow and the cabin caretaker saw them on the second pitch of the gully at around 4 PM! As they got to the top the conditions had deteriorated significantly and it was dark. They did not descend the gully because the second had never rappelled before."

If they were forced to ascend into riotous conditions because the second did not know how to rappel, there is your answer. The ravine is no place to learn basic climbing techniques.

Wow! If this is indeed true, it suggests the pair was way out of their depth. Rope handling, protection, and rapelling are all basic skills for both rock and ice climbing. It suggests that she wasn't even an experienced traditional rock climber.

In theory, the leader should have been able to lower the second--this would require an anchor (but, as ChrisB stated, anchors can be hard to find on this climb) and the second to be able to place an anchor and tie herself in.

Plan for the worst and hope for the best...

Doug

 

[WildPeaks]

Just for gen. info.

I just started ice climbing last year. I've only gone out twice. Both times I knew who was taking me & had a good feel for there ability. With the little I know, it was a little much for a first time but not out of the question. The thing that makes it a harder climb is the long approach. My book rates it a grade 3 as far as technical ice goes. I was on a grade 2 & 3 on my first day out & it was not too much w/ the leadership I had. By the way, I do not rock climb & I do not know how to rappel. I have a tentative trip planned for Pinnacle Gully (same area) w/ an experienced climber this Feb./Mar. I will be relying on his skills & his knowledge of my abilities, etc. for our safety. I will use my own head as well. From reading up on it, you usually head back down via a couple of trails & described bushwhacks. And it is made clear not to head for the summit. My comments are not geared toward the two climbers, I don't know them, or what really happened. They are just in response to a couple of questions from previous threads. I am glad to hear that they registered & are alive.

Tom

 

[AOC-1]

Tom, the easy climbing on HR routes (NEI 2 & 3) is not really the issue. It is the relatively remote location (compared to roadside ice cragging routes) and, of course, the weather that make these climbs unsuitable for those with very little or no experience. You can rely on an experienced leader to get you safely up just about any climb. Chances are nothing will happen and you'll have a great time. But if the leader is hit by ice (it happens) and needs help to get up or down, you're going to have a real problem if you don't know a few of the basics. A little practice at the crags beforehand is a good idea. Have fun and be safe. - Al

 

[WildPeaks]

Thanks Al

I will find out more specifics prior to going.

Tom

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

Most would rank the gullies in Huntington Ravine from easier to more difficult as follows: South, Central, North, Diagonal, Yale, Damnation, Odell's, and Pinnacle. The big jump in difficulty, most would agree, is between Damnation and Odell's, although in early season before Odell's fills in with ice, Pinnacle remains alone in greatest difficulty (in fact, at just about any time Pinnacle is a full grade more diffcult than Odell's).

In low snow years, however, the bulges in Damnation are longer, hence more difficult. Sounds like the couple spent a lot of time on the longest bulge, which is on the second pitch (Harvard Cabin caretaker saw them there around 4 pm). But, also sounds like they cruised the rest of the route, which if belayed would be another six or seven pitches, to top out around dusk. Climbing up to safety is commonly much faster and less risky than rappeling down, especially on multi-pitched ice routes. More fatal accidents occur in rappeling and river crossings than in any other aspect of mountaineering. All this said, ChrisB is correct that the safest way down from the north side HR gullies is east along the north rim, although in low snow years the bushwhacking is tedious, which is probably why most climbers prefer the Escape Hatch, Lions Head, or even South gully for descent.

 

[sierra]

2 cents

Im getting into this discussion late but 2 points if I may. Afkabob, you commented that its easy to overestimate abilitys, plan to much, and not to turn around in time. This is nothing personal, but I couldnt dissagree more, these are all mistakes made by beginners in fact not sucumbing to the above three is a sign of experience.
Second point, I cant express how much it anoys me that people fall back on the "putting the sar people at risk" theme. Sar people do what they do, that is completely seperate from any individual incident. First off, know one forces anyone to participate in sar activities, these are predominatly volenteers and wouldnt be out there if they didnt want to be. It is completely mute if the rescued persons are experienced, stupid or just unlucky. Thats like saying fireman shouldnt put out a house fire because someone was smoking in bed. That being said, I share in everyone admiration of sar peple as well, but stop coddling them, their tough for a reason. Peple will always need to be rescued, there will always be people to go get them, lets accept that and move on. One last point on sar I am an advocate of postponing resues in very adverse conditions, I personally feel that although most sar people would hestitate to wait for anything, I dont feel its right to take atvantage of that fact and there are times when they should be put first and thier well being made a priority.

 

[afka_bob]

Call me a beginner, then.

I could catalog multiple instances of experienced people (me, people I know, people I don't know but have observed, people that know people I know, people observed by people I know, people I have read about in books, magazines, and newspapers) biting off more than they could chew.

And it's "moot," and probably not completely moot.

How are you using "succumb"? Requiring rescue because of those three, or merely doing any of those three? I suppose it's moot.

 

[maineguy]

A person can be experienced and at the same time not "smart" or prone to doing stupid things.

I see scores of "experienced" drivers every day who are doing lots of stupid things.

 

[Jasonst]

A person can be experienced and at the same time not "smart" or prone to doing stupid things.

I see scores of "experienced" drivers every day who are doing lots of stupid things.

Ahh, yeah, achem (clearing throat) Guitly as charged your honor!

 

[jfb]

If there are any experienced ice climbers on the forum - I would like to hear their view on bringing someone on their first climb (assuming that is true) up that gully.

As an experienced ice climber, I would not have brought someone up that gully for their first climb. To go a bit further, I know that there are no universal set of rules that apply to these situations. However, if I was planning on taking someone up Damnation Gully, I'd expect him/her to have done the following:

1. Climbed multi-pitch rock climbs.
2. Set up anchors in rock and ice.
3. Rappelled.
4. Top-roped the ice at the north end of Cathedral or equivalent.
5. Climbed at Frankenstein (e.g. Standard, Chia or Waterfall)
6. Climbed Willey Slide
7. Climbed Central Gully

Our party would stay at the Harvard Cabin overnight, listen to the weather report, leave the cabin by about 0800, avoid climbing if avalanche conditions were moderate or high and bring headlamps.

 

[Panama Jack]

As I laid in the snow for 2 hours today on Garfield

One of the things I tried to calm myself with was reviewing all of the posts in this thread in my head. Boy, some of you people hit it dead on, and others are waaaayy off the mark.

Bear with me, getting home in one piece so I could relay my experience to this particular group was a major reason I am OK tonight.

Opportunity for a Tuesday climb of Garfield was too much to pass up. It would mean a 3:30am wake time here in Natick, MA to be at the trailhead on time to meet the person I hiked with. This person is not my normal partner, but both of us are strong hikers, IMHO.

Rushing around Monday trying to make up for Tuesday's anticipated absense from work and home didnt end until 12:30 last night.

First mistake: Last minute planning for the hike that I simply shoved into the rest of my schedule rather than stopping and thinking that these plans were unlike any of the other ones on my list.

I was quite pleased when the alarm went off & I jumped out of bed, grabbed the assembled pack & paraphelia, and off I went screaming up 93 toward Garfiled.

Packed a pocket full of energy bars and grabbed 2 dehydrated meals to get my through the day. Stopped and ate a big breakfast at the Tilton Diner, and thought I was covering my bases for fuel to start and the rest of the day.

We bushwacked around some heavy duty logging activity for about an hour and it was great fun. I was grateful for the "hunt and peck" hiking as there were no straightaway corridors in this bushwack.

We found Gale River road and we off. My body felt like my truck when the fuel injectors are clogged. Even on the reasonably flat terrain of the bottom of the Garfield trail, I was stopping very often, but kept plugging in hopes it would improve.

Second Mistake I didnt listen to my body. In hundreds of miles of hiking my body had never reacted like this, yet I still fluffed it off as nothing.

I was feelng like an anchor to my hiking partner and encouraged them to "just go" I'd meet them at the summit.

Third mistake I knew I was not doing well, but still played the "competant hiker" and encouraged those I was hiking with to leave me alone. As well they did as I was not confessing outwadly any problems, again, IMHO I am a strong hiker and enjoy that reputation with those that know me.

Reverting back to my second mistake, I made an earnest attempt at the summit. I got to with in .8 miles of the ridge and collapsed, literally, I was dizzy, confused, weak, heart pounding, breathing shallow not good.

What my first choice of things to do, panic.

I remembered reading here on VFTT that the biggest reason alot of people die in the backcountry is that they panic when something goes wrong.In my panic I tried to stand, was lifting my heavy pack around me unncessarily and burning precious energy. When suddenly I remembered the post on panic and said to myself out loud, Chris don't panic or you're dead. Thanksfully that snapped me out of it.

Unable to stand without falling over again, I got out all dry clothes,(which BTW I dont normally carry as many I did today, Guardian Angel or back to mistake #1 I'm not sure) removed my wet shirts and got nice dry wicking layers and fleece on. I got my sleeping bag out but was unable to get into it as I had NO chance of getting my crampons off. So I laid on it in the sun (Thank God the sun was brilliant today with no wind) and cranked up my stove to boil water, have a dehydrated meal and make coffee.

Fourth mistake Very poor nutrition choices, 5 bites into the meal it decided it liked being on the outside better and came up the way it went down. (sorry for the graphics)

I knew I was dehydrating so stared gulping water out of my bladder, that turned out to be a good idea, thankfully.

I put on my Mtn Hdwr shell and pulled my wool cap over my eyes, cinched up the hood and laid in the sun for 2 hours trying to regroup. I was literally hallucinating inside my wool cap. Then I was remembering this thread. Its true whoever said it. Not wanting to be the subject of "what he did wrong" was a huge force in getting me to my senses.

After 2 hours I felt I could at least start heading down, as I felt my best chances laid in getting myself off the moutain. As I gathered my stuff and wrote a note in the snow "WENT DOWN" I realized that I couldnt leave my partner, who I hadnt seen in 2 hours on the summit of Garfield. I was his closest rescue if indeed he was in trouble.

That whole concept cast me right back into borderline panic. And for the next half hour I had the conversation with myself about I had to make for the summit to make sure he was OK.

No mistake here, pure stupidity reigned now i was going to endanger HIM and ME by trying to attempt something that I had no means of executing successfully.

But nonetheless, I took inventory of what I needed and chose simply my axe, no pack, no bag, (;ets hope he isnt hurt) to get up the last .02 miles once I arrived at the summit. Using the axe as a cane, with an economy of energy in mind I started UP the trail, around the first turn there he was, just fine and shocked that I was in the state I was in. And why wouldnt he be shocked, I never bother to tell him (see mistake #3)

The sudden appearance of a preson bouyed my spirits and electrolites obviously, and we walked out together.

I will not add any commentary or editorialize this at all as I simply wanted to put out there a sort of anatomy of near miss.