matching hiking abilities (rating oneself)

[coldfeet]

Pretty much my first full year enjoying the great outdoors, thx to VFFT, CAT 3500, ADK LI and my wife

hikes done
20 catskill 3500 (10 in winter)
6 ADK's (Spence's gatherings)
2 New Hampshire (winter)
2 Vermont (gathering)
2 Maine (summer Beehive)
3 Harriman St Park (NY)

Always wondered about this...wanting to go on certain hikes but afraid that my ability doesn't match others and then what happens....left in the dust...impossible to figure out unless you go out with others.....i think I would rate myself as a "B minus to a B" hiker because of my speed and bad knees after 8-10 miles....I know it's not good for the fast hikers to slow down in the winter because of getting cold.... just thinking...happy holidays!

 

[Mike P.]

Interesting topic, IMO many things can go into this type of rating. Assuming you are thinking of it as a type of "I'm compatible with hiking with these people" assistance.

In no particular order except 1.)

1.) are they fun

2.a) do they hike about the same distance as I do (if you want 15 mile day hikes & they think 6 is a full day, you have issues)

2.b) do they like the same trails, some people are terrified or just avoid trails that climb headwalls & slides, some people love these. Some people call most of the Bondcliff trip from Lincoln Woods (especially on the way back) as a slog. Others call it a pleasant day in the woods.

3.) speed, depending on the trip similar not that important, I hike with some faster people, when necessary, I start before them, sometimes an hour or two! Chomp is getting older though....

4.) What determines turn back weather? If they carry no gear, it's probably the threat of rain or wind, some people will continue up to the summit crawling because they can't stand in the wind. I prefer not hiking with either extreme but it also amazes me when so many AMC Chapter hikes say rain cancels. Why own Gore-tex then while tomorrow's forecast looks bleak for Presidentials 60-80 MPHh higher gust, blowing snow low/no visibility, you can still hike tomorrow someplace in the Whites still have fun not not be in as much wind or blowing snow.

5.) Experience, I've planned a fair number of hikes before, when experience is similar, I tell people, I'm a planner or coordinator not leader, because I've done #4 (either directly or in assessing this based on discussions on what they have done & proabably more important, trips they turned back on) above I'm confident that as equals at a trail junction - if the speedy people are ahead - we can discuss merits of turning back or still going up. Sometimes the dynamics of the group are such that I have to be the leader or co-leader. That means staying within the abilities of the weakest hiker, preferably there are enough people so if some want to turn back, that group has an able leader & one leader can keep going up with stronger hikers.

6.) being open minded - I'll hike with just about anyone, even Yankee fans, some people on this board I think have hiked with everyone. I also solo after years of friends bailing out. If I hook up with people great, if I don't that's great too. (except for having only myself to talk to & blame for hiking in the rain again... )

 

[Tom Rankin]

This is not a perfect match, but it might do for starters:

http://www.netheaven.com/~albadk/main.shtml

It lists what the ADK considers an A, B, etc. hike. So, if you can do a 'B' hike, you could talk about yourself as a 'B' hiker, at least vis-a-vis ADK...

 

[Artex]

Interesting thread. I think it's highly subjective and personal though, since we all hike for different reasons. Having said that, I'd give myself a 'B' because I'm not where I want to be yet. I want to keep building up my endurance and furthering my knowledge of the outdoors.

 

[coldfeet]

Thx Tom, very interesting...wish i could go out this weekend to keep in shape but I dare not ask! Happy New Year!

 

[zeke]

humble pie

coldfeet,

There are so many things that can factor in. Mike P. notes several in his earlier post. One's "grade" as a hiker is all so relative.

For example: My wife and I finished the Adirondack 46 five years ago and attended the yearly get-together where the 46ers award you with a plaque if you climbed all the mountains on the list. We're not strong hikers by many standards, but we're probably perceived as really fit by our family members and by the average person at the office. So we're "strong" in that context, and although we didn't have illusions about our mountaineering prowess, we were proud of having completed all the hikes. However, sitting at the table with us were two guys from NH who, it turned out, had completed all 115 in winter, and they did this in less time than it took us to complete the ADK 46 in summer. (I think there are still only 40-some people who are winter 115ers.)

So as far as the grade we'd give ourselves as hikers, there's a major sliding-scale factor just in this one example. To take it a step further, these guys (the winter 115ers) had climbed Ranier and a handful of the Colorado 14ers. They'd toyed with the idea of doing some of the harder climbs in the continental U.S. and then possibly Denali. How would we rank these guys? At our 46ers dinner, they were definitely the big fish. In a Lower-48 context, they were probably dead center on the bell curve. In Alaska, they might not even make the cut.

It's fun to compare oneself to other hikers/climbers (especially when the comparison is favorable). But there's always someone more accomplished, faster, more skilled, more experienced. You can be an "A" hiker or a "C-minus" hiker or a "D" hiker depending on your points of comparison. Like you, I'm out there mainly to enjoy being in the mountains, and for the sense of personal accomplishment--doing the best I can with what I've got.

zeke

 

[coldfeet]

Hi Zeke, I know it's an impossible idea to figure out....i just felt a little fustrated because none of my close friends hike (or wife) and I'd like to go out more and build up my endurance. Must be nice to have a partner to hike with. Congratulations on your accomplishments..i thought about doing the 46, i just turned 45 and thought it would be cool to finish them on my 46th b day next dec....not going to happen...i need 43 more!..but i need 19 more for the catskills...(only 175 miles away, compared to ADK which are 275)?

 

[hikerfast]

compare to book time

after a few hikes, people should have an idea of how you do compared to book time(summer). that way, you can compare speeds. people should be able to hike together in a group and have a good time, regardless of pace. i like hiking fast, but its also nice to hike more slowly with a group and enjoy the company. if a small group or one person plans on blasting up something, and doesnt want to be held back, just tell him or her 'i do about book time, or 3/4 book time, or 1 and a quarter book time'. If people agree to go with other people, I would think its a common understanding that you go at whatever pace everyone is comfortable at, and everyone has a good time and no one really cares. if someone is really on a mission, they would probably tell you up front, and how fast they want to go, and you can both make a decision based on that.

 

[Klutz]

I'd prefer not to rate myself as I'm not really sure where I would fit. Only been hiking since I met my husband and it's not constant. There's just so much other things to do besides hiking that it just doesn't matter how you rate yourself as it is to have fun with what you do.

Don't get me wrong I do love to hike when we can, but let's see, in all 4 season's there's so many other opportunities to do different things. Like summer I love to ride my bike, kayak, swim, and whatever warm weather things there are to do. One thing that I have issues with in the summer for hiking is black fly season and mosquitoes, I welt up pretty bad. I still do stuff in the summer, but have to put all kinds of stuff on to try to keep the mosquitoes at bay. I really prefer hiking in the fall, it's not too hot and most of the bugs are gone. Then comes another of my favorite sport in winter, skiing(downhill). We go every weekend that we can. Then we have some "blackout" dates on our ski passes so we just fill those in with either a winter hike, cross-country skiing, snowshoeing, or even a "down day" of doing nothing.

So anyway I'm gettin off track of the subjest of rating oneself. That would depend upon who you are hiking with I guess. If I hike with really experienced hikers, then I'd probably a little lower on the scale factor, since I'm not out to kill myself or prove anything. Then if you put me in a group that does leisurely hiking then I could probably be put up on a little higher scale. So it all depends upon the "definition" of the scale factor.

 

[sierra]

Rating oneself can be difficult, you need somekind of measuring stick and that can only come by hiking with others. Truth be told your concern about keeping up with a group imo is unfounded. The way I see it, a group, espechally the leader should see that know ones "left in the dust" Part of being a group is sharing the comradity and friendship, neither involve leaving someone behind, most groups just want to be out there together sharing the experience not breaking records.
Then again,Im a soloist so what the hell do I know.

 

[J&A]

After being around the mountains in VA, creating lengthy day-hikes for myself that nobody would have thought of rivaling, I got a real taste of humble pie after my first winter hike in the ADKs with Pinpin and oncoman (http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=10661). I'm only 21, so maybe my legs haven't finished growing yet, but my God--these guys can fly! This really cements the idea that no matter where you go, what you
do, someone will be better in some way than you are. But when you find this person, you will find someone else better than him or her at something. So it's all relative. coldfeet, your situation is very similar to mine. even our hiking repertoires overlap to some extent (11 catskills/5 winter adks/some others). I too, often find myself hiking alone (not easy to inspire many fellow washingtonians to accompany me on grueling snowshoeing ventures into the high mountains). My "girlfriend" used to hike with me, but I realized that she doesn't enjoy it as much as I do, or as much I thought she did, or as much as I wish she had . I did enjoy being able to meet up with Pinpin and Oncoman, and although their hiking abilities are far in excess of mine, I taxed myself extra hard to keep up with them as far as I felt I could--then we went our separate ways. It was still nice to have some company, and to know I could "keep up" with the great ones, if even for only a short time!

 

[MarkO]

Depends on when you ask me

The grade I give myself varies quite a bit.

During a tough climb when I'm not in good enough shape and trying to keep up with people who are? C-

During the descent after that climb? B

Two months later when I'm jonesing for the outdoors? A

When I'm talking to friends who think a big hike is measured in city blocks? A++

I know I'm not in a class with the Pinpins of the world. Not even close. I wouldn't enjoy trying to match their strengths, nor would they want me tagging along. Every strenuous winter climb is "my last" until the next one.

But whenever I feel the joy of accomplishing something a little bit beyond my comfort zone, and being outdoors instead of cooped up working all the time, I give myself an A.

--Mark
(two days after cursing my soft feet and flabby legs on the climb to Algonquin's summit)

 

[^MtnMike^]

Like MarkO, my hiking ability varies with direction. On the way up I'm a Z. On the way down I'm an A.

^MtnMike^

 

[skiguy]

Rating oneself can be difficult, you need somekind of measuring stick and that can only come by hiking with others. Truth be told your concern about keeping up with a group imo is unfounded. The way I see it, a group, espechally the leader should see that know ones "left in the dust" Part of being a group is sharing the comradity and friendship, neither involve leaving someone behind, most groups just want to be out there together sharing the experience not breaking records.
Then again,Im a soloist so what the hell do I know.

Excellent Point! A group is only strong as it's weakest member. If I may diverge from the topic at hand a bit: I find it particularly interesting when someone is reported missing when they went out with a group to begin with.

 

[vegematic]

I agree with hikerfast. "Booktime", at least in the AMC guides, uses a formula of 30 min/mile + 30 min/1000 ft of elevation. You can use the formula to calculate "booktime" for any trail if you know the distance and elevation change. In the northeast I believe many hikers are familiar with this formula which makes it a useful benchmark. After a few hikes you'll know how you compare to "booktime". I find that this works very well for non-snow travelling...in winter the conditions can be quite variable and therefore, so can hiking speed.

Like many others have said, if someone is looking for a hiking partner for a particular trip, it is likely that they are willing to slow down some in order to have company.
-vegematic

 

[AntlerPeak]

Very interesting thread presenting much to consider. I almost always beat the "guide book time", I suspect most here do and that does not say a lot. It does say that I can reasonably expect to complete any hike I set out on. With groups most will generally hike with people they know and have expectations of how the others hike. When hiking with an unknown group it is a matter of hit or miss.

I recall when joining the climb of RPR with a very large imprompto group for Neil's 46th there were many levels of abilities. I went up by way of Giant's Washbowl and minutes into the hike I passed a young couple who were also going to Rocky Peak. As I continued my climb up the ridge trail I kept thinking about how unrelenting the incline was and began to think, "geeze! will I ever get there." The drop into the hole between Giant and RPR seemed endless as did the brutal climb back up to Giant.

About halfway back up Giant the two I passed at the start of the trip were again encountered as they descended into the col. The young woman commented, "on your way back already? Wow you are fast." Up to that point I was mentally beating myself up for being too slow. I had learned earlier that Neil and his group hiked up from New Russia in a little more than the time it took me to do less distance and less ascent. So I was questioning how slow I was going. Now then back at the trail jct on the Giant Ridge I noted my total time was about twenty minutes faster than guide book, so I was doing a lot better than I thought. The point of course is much of this is perception and how you feel that day. How would you rate that? The youngsters thought I was fast, I thought everybody out here is kicking my butt today. Like I said much of it is perception.

Best I can offer is understand your limits and plan hikes you can reasonably expect to complete and hike at your own level for the day.

 

[paul ron]

Hey slow down!

Matching your hiking abilities to others is rather dificult because you have to assess what you are looking for in your hiking partners or the group. It seems younger people tend to be more competative, generally bitting off more than they can chew and will race to the finish line. In my opinion this is due to poor judgement using strength and excersize as their excuse for high milage and fast pace. Ask them in a few more years how their knees are holding up and you'll also notice they are slowing down too after having several orthascopic surgeries because of their stupidity. That is something you can only learn by doing, I speak form experiance.

Older hikers who have done their share of racing will want more relaxation form their hikes and tend to do less milage enjoying it more. If you can't get there in one day, do an over night trip instead. Remeber being told to lift with your head, not your back? Smarter is better!

Groups, organized by individuals or "clubs" are mostly comprised of people who don't have partners, new to the area or just learning. Unless you join a professional group you can wind up hating your experiance. Some people think of groups as an olympic training team, where the weaker have to be eliminated by killing them off with fast pace n high millage. These are "forum organized" get to gethers by individuals with something to prove. Group leaders are generally inexperianced and tend to cater to their own style, hiking or driven by the stronger hikers' machismo who tend to make these into survival missions, taking the enjoyment away from the weaker hikers just looking for a fun learning experiance. Generally the beginners and older hikers are the straglers who need the group more than the racers but are made to feel as the outcasts because "camping" is a tough sport, it's not for whimps, "you can die if you wear cotton!" Well organized experianced groups move at the pace of the weakest member and aren't afraid of turning everyone back despite the fact they didn't reach their final destination. These tend to offer more learning oportunities and get the group working as a team. That group will get stronger in time and will have more fun down the road.

Before considering hiking in a group there are certain things you have to look for and weigh against your expectations and abilities. Millage and start time. We all know what time the sun sets so determining the pace will be geared to the time it takes to do the milage before it gets dark. Once the speed is calculated, you now have to consider the terrain and your ability to maintain the pace for that amount of time.

I live n work in NYC, so do my hiking buddies. We all love the outdoors and just want to get out of the hubbub of our busy lives. We hike slower, covering less milage but do get to apreciate the trip that much more. Our style is hike like we are going to the electric chair. With wonderfull conversations, enjoying the beauty of the outdoors, apreciating every stream crossing and sound of the woods, we are saddened at the end of each trip with the fact we have to go back to NYC. Why do groups have to hike to the sound of hearts beating in your ears, running like yellow cabs through the woods, trying to get it over with as fast as possable? That's not why we drove 3 hours from NYC. Is it really so bad, like taking cod liver oil, are you proving someting by doing 12 rugged miles setting the world record, only enjoing the view for 1/2 hour while you catch your breath, waiting for the straglers you dusted 4 hours ago? Sounds funny when you are up front but this is how serious problems make headlines and forum topics.

Well Mr Coldfeet, if you are tired of bringing up the rear and straining your knees, you just want to enjoy the woods more, join up with slower backpackers. You are welcome to join me and my friends if you can deal with the slower pace, beautiful scenery, and the simple enjoyment of the Catskills. No need to compete for first palce, we all fight for the rear.

 

[coldfeet]

Paul Ron and other NYC, Long Islanders, I'll take you up on one of those relaxing 6-8 mile hikes, would love to car pool also because the ride is really long and boring...let me know...anyone going to the Maine gathering?..

 

[Klutz]

Know that's what I'm talking about "hiking at your own pace", not out there to prove anything to anyone, just enjoying the outdoors. My husband and I have been known to try to hit the "book" time, but that's after a few hikes under out belts and we don't always do that, it's just to give us an idea of what kind of shape we're in or not. JK, we do like to try to keep up a bit on book times, depending on the terrain, there are times that we just can't do it, but it does give us something to measure ourselves with. Sometimes we find a trail that we picked was just a little more than we expected and have to cut back a bit or change our itenerary a little bit. We have been known to turn back if needed, we'd rather not show up in the paper as "hikers that had to be rescued".

 

[rhihn]

I recall when joining the climb of RPR with a very large imprompto group for Neil's 46th there were many levels of abilities. I went up by way of Giant's Washbowl and minutes into the hike I passed a young couple who were also going to Rocky Peak. As I continued my climb up the ridge trail I kept thinking about how unrelenting the incline was and began to think, "geeze! will I ever get there." The drop into the hole between Giant and RPR seemed endless as did the brutal climb back up to Giant.

Antlerpeak, we had the same experience on the same hike, but from the opposite direction (sorry we missed you). Knowing I'd never keep up with Neil and co., I left an hour earlier. We were not even at Bald Peak when they caught up to us. Many others not a part of Neil's celebration passed us and we crossed paths again on their return, even though we hadn't reached the summit yet. And I don't think we were going all that slowly, though perceptions do vary. At the summit there was already a huge throng of people who either had passed us or who had come up from 73. I'm not sure, but I think we were the last ones to have arrived that day, and some had already come and gone. Don't get me wrong, this is not a criticism of fast hikers. It just tends to limit the number of people I can enjoyably hike with!