Mad Townie
New member
GREAT!!!!!Abster said:
Now if we can get you to forget that "tentatively" stuff . . .
Mt Blanc - Hard Decision - Appreciate Input
- Thread starter Abster
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Now if we can get you to forget that "tentatively" stuff . . .
spider solo
New member
I've used a hypnotist to deal with it
Thought I should respond since I've had a long time fear of heights.
For me it has shown many faces and on occasion it has combined with a problem handling wide open spaces either vertical or not.
After a trip to the Sierras where it did interfere with the planned trip, but did not endanger my other hiking partners, I sought out the help a hypnotist.
More accurately I learned a type of self hypnotism, that helped me handle
the everyday kind of things I could do before the trip....such as drving across a bridge ... plus to be able to handle some new heights.
I look at the various phobias as an extra dose of self preservation that is more than the average person has for a particular issue.
For example, when talking to a friend who is an ice climber/rock climber the subject of kayaking came up.
He turned to me and said ..."You know, I hate being in the water it's a total last resort for me."
I never ever look on it as a negative or some kind of failure to be like others...it is what it is and can be adressed in a positive way where you control it ... or as some of the responders have dealt with it till it vanished altogether.
The trip looks great, but I would do everything in my power to deal with the issue before being on the mountain.
For one last example, if you look at my name "Spider" you might not be surprised that I find them interesting. Lots of people are afraid of them to various degrees... some acutely so.
Yet, I would never think of throwing one onto someone as a cure... so they could face their fears... anymore than I would go bungee jumping to cure my fear of heights .
Yet if that (bungee jumpng) were my goal I would work to achieve it, even if I needed to seek help from others before hand.
Good luck it sounds like a great trip either way!
Thought I should respond since I've had a long time fear of heights.
For me it has shown many faces and on occasion it has combined with a problem handling wide open spaces either vertical or not.
After a trip to the Sierras where it did interfere with the planned trip, but did not endanger my other hiking partners, I sought out the help a hypnotist.
More accurately I learned a type of self hypnotism, that helped me handle
the everyday kind of things I could do before the trip....such as drving across a bridge ... plus to be able to handle some new heights.
I look at the various phobias as an extra dose of self preservation that is more than the average person has for a particular issue.
For example, when talking to a friend who is an ice climber/rock climber the subject of kayaking came up.
He turned to me and said ..."You know, I hate being in the water it's a total last resort for me."
I never ever look on it as a negative or some kind of failure to be like others...it is what it is and can be adressed in a positive way where you control it ... or as some of the responders have dealt with it till it vanished altogether.
The trip looks great, but I would do everything in my power to deal with the issue before being on the mountain.
For one last example, if you look at my name "Spider" you might not be surprised that I find them interesting. Lots of people are afraid of them to various degrees... some acutely so.
Yet, I would never think of throwing one onto someone as a cure... so they could face their fears... anymore than I would go bungee jumping to cure my fear of heights .
Yet if that (bungee jumpng) were my goal I would work to achieve it, even if I needed to seek help from others before hand.
Good luck it sounds like a great trip either way!
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Jay H
New member
Hey Abster, you can also do more Presi Traverses, at least for the endurance aspects of it.
No fear of heights here, but I'm scared of firetowers where you can see how rotted out the wooden planks are and some of them are missing bolts and stuff!
I'll add my voice of reason to the chorus hear, Go for it! France is a nice spot of land, very pretty most of the year, the Loire valley, Chamonix must be a cool town to spend time in too, I've never been to the french alps but I spent a bit of time cycling in and around the Pyrannees around the border with Spain and the Basque country and cycling up the west coast of France back to Paris. It is spectacular, the food is great and the people are friendly. Oh, and then there's the mountains.
Jay
No fear of heights here, but I'm scared of firetowers where you can see how rotted out the wooden planks are and some of them are missing bolts and stuff!
I'll add my voice of reason to the chorus hear, Go for it! France is a nice spot of land, very pretty most of the year, the Loire valley, Chamonix must be a cool town to spend time in too, I've never been to the french alps but I spent a bit of time cycling in and around the Pyrannees around the border with Spain and the Basque country and cycling up the west coast of France back to Paris. It is spectacular, the food is great and the people are friendly. Oh, and then there's the mountains.
Jay
ChrisB
Well-known member
Some Pics of the Route
Hi Abster,
Check out these photos taken along the the Gouter route to get an idea of the terrain and settings involved on the climb. The Bosses ridge section is spectacular!!
Pay special attention to photos #2 and #6. This is as exposed as it gets.
And here is a particularly down-to-earth trip report about a guided climb of the Gouter route.
Before you go, it might be fun to experience guided climbing. You might book some time witrh Marc Chauvin in N. Conway to see exactly how comforting climbing with a proficient professional can be.
Have you seen his interesting blog?
Consider spending a day on Willey Slide with him (soon, before it melts!) to learn some crampon/axe/rope basics, and to get the feel of what it is like to be a "client."
Climb away!
cb
Hi Abster,
Check out these photos taken along the the Gouter route to get an idea of the terrain and settings involved on the climb. The Bosses ridge section is spectacular!!
Pay special attention to photos #2 and #6. This is as exposed as it gets.
And here is a particularly down-to-earth trip report about a guided climb of the Gouter route.
Before you go, it might be fun to experience guided climbing. You might book some time witrh Marc Chauvin in N. Conway to see exactly how comforting climbing with a proficient professional can be.
Have you seen his interesting blog?
Consider spending a day on Willey Slide with him (soon, before it melts!) to learn some crampon/axe/rope basics, and to get the feel of what it is like to be a "client."
Climb away!
cb
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lamerunner
New member
Not to worry; people throw up on Mt Blanc all the time!!
bubba
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It gave me a bit of 'Oh My' too, but this is as exposed as it gets.ChrisB said:
DougPaul
Well-known member
Don't worry about them--people take and display pictures of the most spectacular parts of a mountain. Doesn't mean that one has to actually climb via those routes.Abster said:
Think of Mt Washington. Most people don't climb up Tuckerman headwall or up the Pinnacle in Huntington. They take easier, safer routes (eg the hiking trails). #2 is a sidewalk--just has a drop-off nearby. (You can walk on a sidewalk next to a busy street--not much different.). #6 just looks like #2 but a bit steeper (in the direction that you are going). In either case, if there is a problem the guide can rope you up so if you fall, you won't go anywhere. (It isn't the fall that hurts--its a bad stop. It's the guide's job to make sure that you have a good stop (the rope).)
Doug
Okay
Okay...I believe you. I have some concerns though - if it is just me and a guide - if I fall, I may take him/her down also and (heaven forbid) the guide goes down and takes me with him/her!
I like the sidewalk example Doug - thanks.
I need to forward these pics to the guide company and ask if this is my reality.
Okay...I believe you. I have some concerns though - if it is just me and a guide - if I fall, I may take him/her down also and (heaven forbid) the guide goes down and takes me with him/her!
I like the sidewalk example Doug - thanks.
I need to forward these pics to the guide company and ask if this is my reality.
DougPaul
Well-known member
Of course anthing can happen, but the guides are trained in techniques to mimize the risk. The guides are also trained in assessing the abilities and state of the client and doing what is appropriate. You will be safer with than without.Abster said:
You might like to read up on the boot-axe belay and possibly the hip-axe belay. (Probably in FOTH.)
Not sure if this will help, but if worst comes to worst, there is always the Alaskan belay used on very sharp ridges with no place to place protection--if the other person on your rope falls off one side, you jump off the other side...
A last resort, but it is very effective. (Not likely to be needed on this climb.)BTW, walking Katahdin Knife Edge looks like it might have some similarities to pic #2. IIRC, the ridge is a walk, only the sides of Chimney Notch might be considered an easy climb as you need to use your hands.
Another thought--you might see if someone will take you on a snow climb--perhaps something like Hillman's Highway. It might help you put pic #6 in perspective.
Doug
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pudgy_groundhog
Active member
When we did a mountaineering course a few years we were on a ridge similiar to the one in the picture posted. I was definitely nervous, but just concentrated on placing each step and took deep breaths to calm myself. Steve and I were roped in the whole time (we were building snow anchors) while our guide walked around up there like it was nothing. On the way up she told us to be very careful and be sure of each step we took and we certainly heeded her advice. Going up wasn't so bad, it was coming down that was the harder part for me. The weather was deteroriating so to make a timely descent our guide short roped us on the ridge until we reached a larger, flatter area and we all roped up again for glacier travel. I had complete confidence in our guide.
I think you've gotten a lot of good advice on this thread and I'm sure you'll have an amazing time.
I think you've gotten a lot of good advice on this thread and I'm sure you'll have an amazing time.
blacklab2020
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Mountaineering Freedom of the hills is a great book for the basics. You should also check out a publication by mountaineer books: "Alpinism, techniques to take you higher" This talks about terrain belays, short-rope methods and other very relevant skills. There are other books that are certainly more relevant for glacier travel and crevase rescue as well if interested.
The publication "Accidents in North American Mountaineering" by the american alpine club is also excellent reading. Not only are incidents reported in detail, but they describe good and bad aspects about the rescue and little details/tips that my prove very useful.
Good luck with your endeavor. Everything everyone said about climbing is right on. It teaches balance and confidence needed to walk on such ridges, and you will most likely fall in love with the sport along the way.
The publication "Accidents in North American Mountaineering" by the american alpine club is also excellent reading. Not only are incidents reported in detail, but they describe good and bad aspects about the rescue and little details/tips that my prove very useful.
Good luck with your endeavor. Everything everyone said about climbing is right on. It teaches balance and confidence needed to walk on such ridges, and you will most likely fall in love with the sport along the way.
Mad Townie
New member
Hanna, remember to hire a guide from a reputable service, then TRUST that guide! They have fantastic reputations for a reason. And don't worry about taking them down or them taking you down in a fall. Neither will happen.
Doug's sidewalk is a good example. Try walking on one while imagining there's a big drop on each side. In reality it isn't much different--in winter oftentimes the sidewalk is icier and more treacherous than anything you'll meet on the mountain. Come to think of it, I've been closer to death on sidewalks than I've ever been on a mountain, but maybe that's just me.
Reading Freedom of the Hills (Doug's reference to FOTH) will help you learn a few things, and it's really interesting anyway.
So have we helped, or have we made matters worse?
Doug's sidewalk is a good example. Try walking on one while imagining there's a big drop on each side. In reality it isn't much different--in winter oftentimes the sidewalk is icier and more treacherous than anything you'll meet on the mountain. Come to think of it, I've been closer to death on sidewalks than I've ever been on a mountain, but maybe that's just me.
Reading Freedom of the Hills (Doug's reference to FOTH) will help you learn a few things, and it's really interesting anyway.
So have we helped, or have we made matters worse?
MT – all this input has definitely helped. It is great because there are many people coming from different perspectives. However, if I wimp-out I hope I can still post here…
The guide co I am using is: http://www.ontopmountaineering.com/hautes.php. I have spoken with the owner, Jorg, and his wife, who really seem great.
Lamerunner – thanks – I think that was comforting!?
DougP – all good stuff – as usual
Doug (Lab) – I have Freedom of the Hills and love it. I will read those parts again. How would I get ahold of the "Accidents in North American Mountaineering" by the american alpine club? Is it a book? Guess I could look it up online!
PG – thanks for posting your experiences. The only reason I think I could even attempt Mt Blanc is because of a NOLS course I did out in the Olympics in WA. We did 3 glacier traverses, but no real technical climbing.
The guide co I am using is: http://www.ontopmountaineering.com/hautes.php. I have spoken with the owner, Jorg, and his wife, who really seem great.
Lamerunner – thanks – I think that was comforting!?
DougP – all good stuff – as usual
Doug (Lab) – I have Freedom of the Hills and love it. I will read those parts again. How would I get ahold of the "Accidents in North American Mountaineering" by the american alpine club? Is it a book? Guess I could look it up online!
PG – thanks for posting your experiences. The only reason I think I could even attempt Mt Blanc is because of a NOLS course I did out in the Olympics in WA. We did 3 glacier traverses, but no real technical climbing.
now
This early spring, I suggest doing South Gully In Huntington Ravine. It is a crampon and ice axe climb, and ropes aren't necessary. Go with a friend and see how it goes. Failing that, get out with a guide in the Whites in something like Odell's Gully in Huntington, and see if a rope and guide help conquer the fear. Definitely do something like that before you go to Europe, so you are familiar with your reactions with a guide. You could even start with the practice ice climbs on Cathedral Ledge this winter.
This early spring, I suggest doing South Gully In Huntington Ravine. It is a crampon and ice axe climb, and ropes aren't necessary. Go with a friend and see how it goes. Failing that, get out with a guide in the Whites in something like Odell's Gully in Huntington, and see if a rope and guide help conquer the fear. Definitely do something like that before you go to Europe, so you are familiar with your reactions with a guide. You could even start with the practice ice climbs on Cathedral Ledge this winter.
giggy
New member
no disrespect grayjay - but thats debatable - I have and have not not used a rope in this gully. if its real hard neve snow or windpack - its not a bad idea to toss a few pickets in and running belay it. It is "easy" but still considered technical. Self arrest would be tough in the conditions described above.Grayjay said:
spider solo
New member
good clue, indicator
I'm not sure if you meant physically or figuratively...though in my post I purposefully did not mention photos so as not to seem to excessive on the subject.
However, if you do mean literally it is a good indicator as to what you have to deal with psychologically to prep for the trip.
Lots of good advice here and you've been out on glaciers which is a big plus.
If you want to keep things as a positive then you might take the view "there are no problems only solutions"
You may also look at it as a series of mini problems that you resolve as you go along... each one reenforcing that you are doing excellent as you go travell along.
Typically a "panic attack" last about 20 minutes and as you prep if you find yourself in a sitituation where you "freeze up" you'll be able to know you can wait it out and it will pass. Eventually it may be the fear that you will panic is as much a concern as the actual height. (or the percieved height)
Working construction it was very common for people to get the "feel of things" before they go up on the roofs for example.
I used this approch often times when working as a chimney sweep ( a job I took to help me deal with heights) at 1st I would be very timid but after a few trips up and down the ladders etc I would acclaimize and be able to do the task that I had set out to do.
You can even work on your tolerances in a urban setting. You can always take a trip to a "skyscraper" tall building. Are you the person who, when getting off the elevator, hugs the wall with their hands splayed out against it, or the person who strides up to the window and says "cool look at that" ?
If you find yourself as the 1st person how long to get the nerve to walk to the window, you may be pleasantly surprised to find it only takes a minute or two.
Back to hiking/climbing I find if I do the same hike that pushes my tolerances
in the summer and again in the winter...it is the snow coverd one that I am more at ease with. Don't know why, but you may find little tricks like that help you customize what you may need to work on to acheve your goals.
Keeping a postive approach to the issue, you have just been "gifted "with an extra amount of sensory perception to the issue of heights...now it's a case of what to do with the gift.
Good luck!
Abster said:
I'm not sure if you meant physically or figuratively...though in my post I purposefully did not mention photos so as not to seem to excessive on the subject.
However, if you do mean literally it is a good indicator as to what you have to deal with psychologically to prep for the trip.
Lots of good advice here and you've been out on glaciers which is a big plus.
If you want to keep things as a positive then you might take the view "there are no problems only solutions"
You may also look at it as a series of mini problems that you resolve as you go along... each one reenforcing that you are doing excellent as you go travell along.
Typically a "panic attack" last about 20 minutes and as you prep if you find yourself in a sitituation where you "freeze up" you'll be able to know you can wait it out and it will pass. Eventually it may be the fear that you will panic is as much a concern as the actual height. (or the percieved height)
Working construction it was very common for people to get the "feel of things" before they go up on the roofs for example.
I used this approch often times when working as a chimney sweep ( a job I took to help me deal with heights) at 1st I would be very timid but after a few trips up and down the ladders etc I would acclaimize and be able to do the task that I had set out to do.
You can even work on your tolerances in a urban setting. You can always take a trip to a "skyscraper" tall building. Are you the person who, when getting off the elevator, hugs the wall with their hands splayed out against it, or the person who strides up to the window and says "cool look at that" ?
If you find yourself as the 1st person how long to get the nerve to walk to the window, you may be pleasantly surprised to find it only takes a minute or two.
Back to hiking/climbing I find if I do the same hike that pushes my tolerances
in the summer and again in the winter...it is the snow coverd one that I am more at ease with. Don't know why, but you may find little tricks like that help you customize what you may need to work on to acheve your goals.
Keeping a postive approach to the issue, you have just been "gifted "with an extra amount of sensory perception to the issue of heights...now it's a case of what to do with the gift.
Good luck!
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blacklab2020
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Abster said:
For Accidents in North American Mountaineering (small annual publication, $10.00):
www.americanalpineclub.com
www.mountaineerbooks.com
Rock and Snow near the shawangunks has it in stock, the mountaineer in keene valley has it in stock. And I am sure some of the EMS in New Hampshire has it (i.e. North Conway probably, and Concord or Manchester?) If you look around you might find it, nearby.
DougPaul
Well-known member
This is where the focus issue comes in. A rock climber learns to focus on the job at hand (climbing) while ignoring a fearsome view. (For instance, when you look down at your feet, you learn not to "see" anything below.) Climbers separate risk into 2 forms: subjective (psychological, eg feasome view when you are above an overhang) and objective (real, eg a falling rock or a ledge below to hit if you fall). Sometimes the situation with the greatest subjective risk is actually the safest and vice versa.spider solo said:
Doug
bubba
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Not sure about you, Hanna, but I'm OTFLMAO!! Oh yeah - go ahead and just JUMP!!DougPaul said:Not sure if this will help, but if worst comes to worst, there is always the Alaskan belay used on very sharp ridges with no place to place protection--if the other person on your rope falls off one side, you jump off the other side...
(Doug, you're killing me...)
