Musings about the Highland center

[bikehikeskifish]

I never got a single cent for being a non-profit president. (However, Kevin, my checks have always been good.)

I have never been an AMC member. I have never taken a class or been on an AMC-sponsored trip. I have never been in any building except a hut and in those cases it was purely out of curiosity - and because it was "right there". While I have taken some water, I never relied on or planned on it. When I filled out my 4K application, I did send them some extra money which they say goes for trail maintenance, which is exactly where I would like my money to go - I use the trails. I also have many of their books and so they get some support from me in that manner.

(Full disclosure here... )

Tim

 

[Chip]

People who have only experienced the NEW Highland Center, with no sense of what used to be there, may not quite fully understand where some folks are coming from on this.

That's me, although I do remember stopping there as a Yute with my parents. It was full of filthy, half naked hikers smoking and swilling PBR's. My father vowed never to return until they cleaned the place up and offered an expensive beer selection and tee shirts sold by over paid exchange students who barely speak english.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the AMC made a deliberate decision to offer a more "upscale" experience and facility to attract a different crowd than the one at Pinkham Notch. From what I've gathered they are on private property at the HC. I have never stayed over night there. I prefer drinking Bud at Barnes Field, single malt at Paradox's or the hot tub at The Beacon. Not drinking the hot tub at The Beacon, you know what I mean. The HC was clearly a business decision that must help them to continue to offer some of their unprofitable perks (like water and toilets at the huts for anyone who wanders by).

Edit: It wouldn't surprise me to hear they are Tour Bus friendly there. As was mentioned previously; hiking is a leasure activity pursued by people who can afford the gas, equipment and time away from work. My tent and sleeping bag cost more than week at the HC would. It's a little disingenuous to look down our collective noses at a New Yorker in a BMW bringing their family to NH for the weekend and staying at a clean facility.

 

[giggy]

some of their unprofitable perks (like water and toilets at the huts for anyone who wanders by).

I hear ya - but in my opinion on that is if they want to keep the huts on major trails through the whites and set up shop there - then they really have to make the water and toliets for all - they aren't on private property up there and I think it is actually required by the USFS to do so. So nobody should feel like the AMC is doing them a favor by letting them use the water and cans.

I don't seek out the huts - but if I go by them - you bet I am going and getting water. The AMC marketing dept knows this as well and the marketing materials are all over the place.

I don't know, I got no problem with business making $$ - I just try to get away from the greed, the high end attitude that flows in metro boston - and I guess I simply don't want to see it in the mtns. I see too much of that ast the huts, the highland, etc... being selfish i guess.

what i can't stand hearing is people complaining about them and then writing that check every year because "it goes to the trails" or they support my idea of wilderness education" or I like to give back .... you don't like the direction - don't send $$$

send it elsewhere.

 

[griffin]

People who have only experienced the NEW Highland Center, with no sense of what used to be there, may not quite fully understand where some folks are coming from on this.

I stayed in the AMC bunkhouse facility that predated the "NEW Highland Center" - I"m not sure if that counts, but since I can still stay in a relatively cheap bunkhouse that also provides me with showers, breakfast, a cozy fireplace to relax by (and I'm pretty sure I have seen Bud there, I just prefer to by the local brews) and toy free gear rental, I can't say that I'm really feeling the loss.

And yeah, I"ve met some serious snobs at AMC facilities. Reading some of the posts in this thread, it seems the snobbery runs both ways.

 

[Quietman]

According to this, he makes (made?) $73K.

While $250k+ seems rediculously high (and it probably is) the AMC spends over $18,000,000 per year on its programs, while the GMC spends $1,000,000. Not really apples to apples.

As for the HC, it was built, isn't going away, I can't afford to use it, and all the debate of its merrits (or lack of) on this thread is not likely to change anything.

I broke my promise to myself and posted on this issue, now I'm going for a long walk for my punishment.

 

[SilentCal]

what i can't stand hearing is people complaining about them and then writing that check every year because "it goes to the trails" or they support my idea of wilderness education" or I like to give back .... you don't like the direction - don't send $$$

send it elsewhere.

I question how much of it actually goes to the trails. Camp Dodge is the Volunteer Center for the AMC's Trail Adopters. Last time I visited the tool shed, there was not much that was sparkling new and much stuff that needed to be repaired. The Camp itself could use some TLC. When you see how much money goes through the Highland Center and how little goes through Camp Dodge, it just makes me believe that the AMC is getting away from it says are it's ideals.

I used to be a member years ago and I won't be one again. I'm part of the Adopt-a-Trail program and I see myself there for awhile.

What would Joe Dodge think if he were alive?

 

[RollingRock]

All of these comments are valid and like many of you, I hold the same concerns. There is a reason why thru-hikers call the AMC the Appalachian Mountain Collectors. But I still pay my annual membership probably because it is THE club in our playground that provides opportunities for beginners to get started (how many of us started hiking the Whites with the AMC?), spreads the conservation message around, does do some lobbying, and works with our clubs.

I've adopted the Smarts Brook Trail and the forest service person I work with told me if it wasn't for the AMC, the trails in the National Forest would NOT be in great shape. The Forest Service funding decreases each year.

So yeah, the AMC might NOT be perfect but in the greater scheme of things, it does a decent job. Truth be told, our society is looking for greater luxury when adventuring outdoors and the AMC is just trying to accomodate that need.

 

[roadtripper]

So yeah, the AMC might NOT be perfect but in the greater scheme of things, it does a decent job.

I agree. I've always thought that despite the variety of opinions on the AMC, having the AMC around is better than not having the AMC around, considering some of the things they actually offer and some of the things they do accomplish.

 

[forestgnome]

So nobody should feel like the AMC is doing them a favor by letting them use the water and cans.

Dittoes!

I would rather not have a toilet and a faucet at Lakes of the Clouds. That hut is a definate drag on the environment. Without it there spoiling the special landscape, there would be no sewer smell, no loud city music coming out of the hut, no machinery sounds, and a lot less traffic in a fragile alpine environment. Hikers might stop for lunch, but that would be about all. Very few people would even care about the place because it's all about the peaks for most. The hut makes it a destination and a camp for thousands of people who would otherwise take a pic and keep going. High volume traffic is bad for the environment, according to the AMC who attracts and profits from the traffic.

The AMC maintains trails. That's great. So do other clubs, such as the WODC. WODC does a wonderful job in the Sandwich Range without all this extraneousness. I see no negatives to their fine operation. The actual trailwork done by AMC could easily be done by a similar group with a spirit that is closer to the heart of the forest, such as WODC.

 

[forestgnome]

Then again, I must give props where they are due...

http://www.unionleader.com/article....rticleId=4b1c5225-5cee-4445-8659-5a375c2d59d2

 

[griffin]

Dittoes!

I would rather not have a toilet and a faucet at Lakes of the Clouds. ... Very few people would even care about the place because it's all about the peaks for most. The hut makes it a destination and a camp for thousands of people who would otherwise take a pic and keep going.

You seriously believe the trails to and around Mt. Washington would have "very few people" on them if it weren't for Lakes?

Fewer people spending the night? Certainly.

Fewer boots on the trails? Marginal.

I can't (and don't want to) defend the croo's musical selections or the smell. And yes, the AMC does draw some additional traffic. But anyone who thinks AMC is the reason for crowded trails in the Whites has either never been up Lafayette or is wearing serious blinders.

Other organizations do maintain trail systems. I suspect, however, that if you had to create another organization to replace the amount of trail maintenance the AMC does, or create enough smaller organizations to replace it, you'd wind up with something with a combined imprint that's pretty similar to AMC and we're back to square one.

 

[sierra]

I had a girlfriend a long time ago who met her future husband through the AMC. When I knew her, she (and her perfect, long fingernails) were a card-carrying member of the CPC - Couch Potato Club.

I'm not really sure what all the fuss is. I've gotten water at a hut or two, and otherwise visited huts "because they were there" (hut bagging?) I don't care about, take advantage of, or otherwise acknowledge either PNVC or HC. Maybe I am missing something, but I sure don't feel like I am.

What really annoys me is having to pay for parking at WMNF lots which don't have any toilet or aren't properly plowed. THAT is worth getting annoyed about.

Tim

who says you have to pay? I do not. ok flame away but Im not paying

 

[Stan]

who says you have to pay? I do not. ok flame away but Im not paying

Well, there are a lot of reasons to pay and a lot of reasons not to pay, but, as they say, "render unto caesar".

Of course, that's easy for me to say ... I have a senior pass!

 

[Puck]

It might do some of the little rich kids a world of good to see the hardcores in a gear room at the HC. It could prove to be an invaluable learning experience.

You said a mouthfull!!!

Afew years back my son and I spent the night at Shapliegh. We just had a modest two night three day trip in the pemi. We ticked off 6 4K while we had planned for 9. We had equipement issues. It was a nice feeling of accomplishment but by no means did we have "bragging rights" being fully aware of individuals who accomplish Pemi and Presi traverses in a day. So at breakfast at the HC we were bored by this guy who was staying at the HC bragging about how he and his sons hiked Tom, Filed and Hale in two days.

What Maddy mentioned could expose neophites to people who are practicing LNT, the hikers code, trail maintanence etc. It could be humbling. I am not saying that everyone sorting equipment in the gear room at Pinkham is not a blowhard, however most of th epeople I have met there have humilty and respect. Perhaps it comes from experience. An empty can makes the most noise.

 

[cushetunk]

It might do some of the little rich kids a world of good to see the hardcores in a gear room at the HC. It could prove to be an invaluable learning experience.

Invaluable for learning what? I don't think that exposing "little rich kids" to "hardcores" with ice axes who can traverse them Pemi in a day will somehow magically make for better people. I'd say there's just as many people with ice axes in the PNVC who could use exposure to... something, anything else.

There are good people and bad people everywhere, and while I appreciate someone's hiking achievements, especially when they undertake a challenge and then keep the accomplishment of that challenge in the proper perspective, that's certainly not the only thing I judge someone on.

And I definitely do not think that exposing one stereotype to another stereotype is going to do much for the things that I actually care about, such as developing an ethic of stewardship for the natural world.

Okay, I'm over it now.

 

[Trainwreck]

I have been reading this thread with interest.
I am an AMC member, and I use the trails.
I use the gear room at Pinkham, and forgive me for saying this, (HC staff, cover your eyes), have very effectively 'cleaned up' after long sweaty muddy hikes in the bathrooms located right in the lobby.
My question is this, are the showers at the bunkhouse locked? If not, then....
People give me weird looks all the time... I'm used to it, even kinda enjoy it.
Sandy

 

[skiguy]

It might do some of the little rich kids a world of good to see the hardcores in a gear room at the HC. It could prove to be an invaluable learning experience.

Maddy you are certainley entitled to your opinion and whom you support. But IMO this is a bit too much profiling for me especially when it seems it is based upon speculation as alot of what else has been posted in this thread. The funny thing is that alot of grown up HC outdoorsmen are products of little rich kids, poor kids,and everything else within the socioeconomic continum. Part of my enjoinment of the outdoors has come from participating on a level field where socioeconomic and racial barriers are torn down because of all participants positive attitude. So don't miss out on a good time because of unsupported perceptions.

 

[Maddy]

OK...problem solved. Message deleted. Time to move on.

 

[Puck]

So don't miss out on a good time because of unsupported perceptions.

I don't think you are qualified to make that statement. Maddy's perceptions are supported by Maddy's experiences and observations and have some value. Although I doubt few people backup experiences and observations with a scientific poll.

That being said I agree with Maddy's main point; a broader perspective has never hurt anyone and we can always learn from others. The HC is insular along socioeconomic lines. The exposre one can get there of the full spectrum of people in the mountains is limited.Yes there are many who have stayed there who have showered at low rent hostels and have incredible life experiences. I have stayed HC many times because of volunteer activities that were based out of the facility.

Any kid or adult for that matter could learn alot by watching an equipement shakedown in a gear room. No kid should be blamed for the conditions they were born into, rich or poor.

 

[griffin]

a broader perspective has never hurt anyone and we can always learn from others. The HC is insular along socioeconomic lines.

Where do you stay when you travel? Do protect yourself from "insular socioeconomic settings" by always making a point to stay in the absolute least expensive lodgings?

The exposre one can get there of the full spectrum of people in the mountains is limited.

Probably. Good things there are always the mountains themselves.